Dragon Ball AP Ratings Upgrade

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Should "several times" be 3x or 2x? Also isn't it stated that it increases his strength by 3 times?

It's stated that it was 2x

 

[Ednaxel2]

It's stated that it was 2x

Thanks

 

[Ednaxel2]

Ok I don't know why this is a thing but I'll address it

In the profiles Gohan is city block level because he scales to Post Red Ribbon Army Goku, yet the Oozaru Goku that killed him is only marked at large building level (also city block level should be replaced with large building level+ cause the 3x multiplier is now accepted as just 2x)

So the scaling chain should be more like:
Pilaf Saga Goku should've gotten stronger than his Pre-Pilaf Saga self, and is 1/10th his Oozaru self: at least 0.744 Tons
(Pre-Korin Training/Post-Muscle) Goku scales above general blue: 3.72 Tons
(Post-Korin Training/Post-Red Ribbon Army Saga) Goku becomes twice as strong, Grandpa Gohan scales to him: 7.44 Tons
Pre-Pilaf Saga Oozaru Goku kills Grandpa Gohan: 7.44 Tons

 

[SlendVeny]

Ok I don't know why this is a thing but I'll address it

In the profiles Gohan is city block level because he scales to Post Red Ribbon Army Goku, yet the Oozaru Goku that killed him is only marked at large building level (also city block level should be replaced with large building level+ cause the 3x multiplier is now accepted as just 2x)

So the scaling chain should be more like:
Pilaf Saga Goku should've gotten stronger than his Pre-Pilaf Saga self, and is 1/10th his Oozaru self: at least 0.744 Tons
(Pre-Korin Training/Post-Muscle) Goku scales above general blue: 3.72 Tons
(Post-Korin Training/Post-Red Ribbon Army Saga) Goku becomes twice as strong, Grandpa Gohan scales to him: 7.44 Tons
Pre-Pilaf Saga Oozaru Goku kills Grandpa Gohan: 7.44 Tons

I don't even think Oozaru Goku should scale to Gohan. For all we know, Gohan got stomped on in his sleep.

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

(Pre-Korin Training/Post-Muscle) Goku scales above general blue: 3.72 Tons

has 21st TB Goku scaling to General Blue off of Krillin being able to harm Blue been discussed before?

 

[Ednaxel2]

has 21st TB Goku scaling to General Blue off of Krillin being able to harm Blue been discussed before?

Not from my knowledge, seems fine tho

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Not from my knowledge, seems fine tho

it's not accepted currently, might need to make another CRT for it in the future

 

[Hiryu-Z]

I agree

 

[Ednaxel2]

The Solar Kamehameha scales above Cell's normal abilities.
Forgot about that thread.

I found your thread were it was accepted, shouldn't Gohan's normal abilities still scale above Cell's kamehameha?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I don't know why. Cell broke his arm, and Gohan needed a Kamehameha, too.

 

[SlendVeny]

The Solar Kamehameha scales above Cell's normal abilities.

Cell goes "I have enough power to blow up the solar system" and people think he means "I can blow up the solar system with one specific technique."

I don't know why. Cell broke his arm, and Gohan needed a Kamehameha, too.

A one-handed Kamehameha, which isn't magically just some absurd multiplier.

 

[Damage3245]

Cell goes "I have enough power to blow up the solar system" and people think he means "I can blow up the solar system with one specific technique."

Why not?

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

Cell goes "I have enough power to blow up the solar system" and people think he means "I can blow up the solar system with one specific technique."

Cell takes time to gather ki and only after some time does he say "now I have enough ki to blow away the solar system", the solar system calc is definitely above Cell's regular punches.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Cell takes time to gather ki and only after some time does he say "now I have enough ki to blow away the solar system", the solar system calc is definitely above Cell's regular punches.

He should still be Solar System level in base (via the added multipliers), just not to the same degree as his solar kamehameha

 

[CRIMPSUMPSKI2]

He should still be Solar System level in base (via the added multipliers), just not to the same degree as his solar kamehameha

I am aware

 

[Nullflowerblush]

A one-handed Kamehameha, which isn't magically just some absurd multiplier.

A Kamehameha is a Kamehameha.

 

[omegabronic]

you know, the profile still scales Cell to his Solar Kamehameha, if that thread downgrading him to not scale was accepted, shouldn't the profile reflect it already?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

idk
we can fix that here

 

[AguilaR202]

you know, the profile still scales Cell to his Solar Kamehameha, if that thread downgrading him to not scale was accepted, shouldn't the profile reflect it already?

Because he doesn’t get knocked off 4-B afaik Kamehameha is only unverifiably higher than his base stats.

 

[omegabronic]

Because he doesn’t get knocked off 4-B afaik Kamehameha is only unverifiably higher than his base stats.

yeah, but what level of 4-B? because he wouldn't scale directly to it at all, that was what was proposed in the thread that accepted cell not scaling to his Kamehameha

 

[omegabronic]

actually, istn't this what this thread is about? someone should continue with it

 

[Livinmeme]

Piccolo should be more than two time stronger desu, he said "several times stronger", so atleast a three times multiplier would be needed, unless you think that several only refeers to two times

 

[Qawsedf234]

Unweighted Goku is >=1/20th as strong as his Saiyan Saga self: 3.26 Ronnatons (Large Planet level)

Where are you getting this Large Planet level figure?

EDIT: So you're scaling Saiyan Saga Vegeta to Namek Saga KKx2 Goku.

Which is something I guess. Why not scale BoDBZ to just 1/20th of 5-B?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Where are you getting this Large Planet level figure?

Later in the blog we get a lot of backscaling from First Form Frieza

 

[Qawsedf234]

Later in the blog we get a lot of backscaling from First Form Frieza

I'm not entirely sure if such an intense level of back-scaling through a bunch of haphazard multipliers is the right move to make.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I’m just the messenger

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

The only problem with it is that Frieza's planet bust ended up being too high, really sad stuff

 

[Qawsedf234]

I’m just the messenger

I get it, but for these are our rules

However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier. For lower multipliers, like things much less than times 100, evidence can take the form of a clear increase in combat strength against priorly equal or superior opponents. For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.

If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat. That means that if, for example, a character has a times 10 multiplier and later on gets another times 50 multiplier, than the evidence necessary to use both multipliers to get a statistic, is like that of a times 500 multiplier, as the best feat would be increased by a factor of 500 in that case.

For such drastically high increases you need a feat or statement backing that level of power. I'm not seeing it for the Saiyan Saga people.

Cell and beyond I vaguely get but even then it's contradicted since Cell destroying the Solar System is a treated as a shocking statement.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

For such drastically high increases you need a feat or statement backing that level of power. I'm not seeing it for the Saiyan Saga people.

There's one without the Frieza downscaling btw

Updated Dragon Ball AP Ratings (Version 2)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Cell and beyond I vaguely get but even then it's contradicted since Cell destroying the Solar System is a treated as a shocking statement.

I mean, even with the mutipliers they still don't reach 1.053 KiloFoe, even Powerhouse Cell is only 391.2 Foe, so no contradiction there

 

[Damage3245]

The only problem with it is that Frieza's planet bust ended up being too high, really sad stuff

There's a Calc Group thread currently to downgrade Frieza's planet bust with a new calc. But no action on it for a while.

 

[omegabronic]

The only problem with it is that Frieza's planet bust ended up being too high, really sad stuff

tbf there is a current downgraded recalcing it to large planet level

 

[Ednaxel2]

yeah, but what level of 4-B? because he wouldn't scale directly to it at all, that was what was proposed in the thread that accepted cell not scaling to his Kamehameha

His regular stats will scale to 4-B in Foe, with the solar kamehameha he would be in the KiloFoe ranges

 

[Ednaxel2]

There's a Calc Group thread currently to downgrade Frieza's planet bust with a new calc. But no action on it for a while.

Hopefully it happens

 

[omegabronic]

His regular stats will scale to 4-B in Foe, with the solar kamehameha he would be in the KiloFoe ranges

yeah, i re read the thread now, but thanks anyway

 

[Ednaxel2]

I updated the blogs so then only Cell's Solar Kamehameha scales to KiloFoe ranges

There's a Calc Group thread currently to downgrade Frieza's planet bust with a new calc. But no action on it for a while.

Can you please send a link to that thread? So then I can make a remake to the blog (incase it gets accepted)

Edit: nvm I found it

There's also this thread that might get accepted, if it does what does it change for the chain scaling of the Cell and Buu Saga?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

This seems straightforward. I don't see any issues with it. It's substantiated with plenty of evidence for the backscaling to function so I agree.

Regarding Vegeta being weakened when he became a Great Ape, this has zero relevance. X2 Namek Goku has a power of 180,000. Great Ape is stated to multiply Battle Power tenfold (so 18,000 to 180,000). So Great Ape Vegeta scales to him. Nobody from the Saiyan Saga scales to Great Ape Vegeta.

It's not like we start battles with characters weakened or heavily damaged or anything. So Vegeta would get that scaling. That's his full, actual, power in the Saiyan Saga.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Super Saiyan multiplier​

Super Saiyan is already scaled to >40x because X20 Goku scaled to 50% Freeza and then SS1 Goku scales past 100% Freeza. It multiplying Battle Power does not contradict it having a >40x multiplier in the story. If you want to lower it from 50x to 'at least' 40x then go ahead.​

I don't think anyone argued for Super Saiyan being lower than 50x it's already accepted on the wiki too

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I don't think anyone argued for Super Saiyan being lower than 50x it's already accepted on the wiki too

Oh that's my bad. I was just skimming and thought someone was arguing against it for some reason. I'm going to edit that out, thanks for pointing out my mistake.

 

[omegabronic]

I updated the blogs so then only Cell's Solar Kamehameha scales to KiloFoe ranges

Can you please send a link to that thread? So then I can make a remake to the blog (incase it gets accepted)

Edit: nvm I found it

There's also this thread that might get accepted, if it does what does it change for the chain scaling of the Cell and Buu Saga?

Also, for similar reasons, Gohan also doesn't scale without his father son kamehameha and roshi doesn't scale physicaly to his moon level kamehameha, this was also decided in another thread

 

[Ednaxel2]

Also, for similar reasons, Gohan also doesn't scale without his father son kamehameha and roshi doesn't scale physicaly to his moon level kamehameha, this was also decided in another thread

What about SSJ2 Goku, Majin Vegeta and the rest of the Buu Saga tiers?