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Dragon Ball AP Ratings Upgrade

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Sir_Marvulous said:
Didn't read the AP blog

Still haven't but power levels don't scale linearly unless they're shown to relate to each other
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I don't think they're scaling any power levels linearly, the only time they kinda do that is literally just from stated multipliers like Kaioken
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Still haven't read the AP blog

Backscaling the Saiyan Saga to the Namek Saga makes it sound like linear power level scaling
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Preferably read the blog first, because this is just incorrect. It uses some actually stated multipliers and the fact that Oozaru Vegeta (Saiyan Saga) has the same power level as Kaioken x2 Goku (vs. Ginyu), nothing like "oh well this guy has a power level of 20,000 so he's 2x stronger than this guy that has a power level of 10,000"

All the multipliers used in the blog are outright stated
 
As for the downscaling stuff, my reason for disagreeing with it stems from the fact that Vegeta's power level was weaker than normal before he used the Power Ball, so his PL as an Oozaru wouldn't necessarily be 180,000, and thus it wouldn't be equal to Namek Saga Kaioken x2 Goku's

So yeah, I'm shifting from neutral to disagreeing. This is also just a bunch of downscaling from First Form Frieza which I'm not a fan of
 
Basically KKx10 Goku scales to Second Form Frieza

So with base he’d scale to 1/10th of KKx10

and Base Goku has a BP of 90k and with Kaioken x2 he has a BP of 180k

which is the same as Oozaru Vegeta’s BP of 180k

And Base Vegeta would scale 1/10th of his Oozaru state

and then Base Goku in base would scale to 1/3 of that due to KKx3

and Saiyan Saga Goku is 20x weaker than Base Goku Post King Kai training


All of this literally comes from stated multipliers

So you essentially have to disagree that being 180k BP =/= being as strong as someone with 180k BP


CloverDragon03 said:
As for the downscaling stuff, my reason for disagreeing with it stems from the fact that Vegeta's power level was weaker than normal before he used the Power Ball, so his PL as an Oozaru wouldn't necessarily be 180,000, and thus it wouldn't be equal to Namek Saga Kaioken x2 Goku's

So yeah, I'm shifting from neutral to disagreeing. This is also just a bunch of downscaling from First Form Frieza which I'm not a fan of
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If Oozaru Vegeta is as strong as Kaioken x2 Goku on Namek why would the power ball matter? That would just mean Base Vegeta is 1/10th of his full power state in Oozaru



Also the OP should probably be defending his own arguments
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
and Base Goku has a BP of 90k and with Kaioken x2 he has a BP of 180k

which is the same as Oozaru Vegeta’s BP of 180k
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Here's the problem though: Vegeta's PL went down before he threw the Power Ball. His PL of 18,000 wouldn't be what's amped, it would be whatever PL he dropped to multiplied by 10
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Here's the problem though: Vegeta's PL went down before he threw the Power Ball. His PL of 18,000 wouldn't be what's amped, it would be whatever PL he dropped to multiplied by 10
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I don’t think you understand that doesn’t matter because if Vegeta went into Oozaru with no strain he would have 180k and his base would naturally would be 1/10th of that I can see why you’re getting confused but you’re thinking about it wrong
 
Vegeta hadn't recovered from his injuries from his fight with Goku, though, so I don't get the whole "no strain" thing
 
...Honestly somehow I didn't even think about that

A post-Zenkai Goku would've been what would help against 2nd Form Frieza, which is supported. And well, if we wanna talk power levels, Goku's would be 900,000 at Kaioken x10, and 2nd Form Frieza's is stated to be over 1 million, so it's questionable how much he would've been able to help

I'm assuming the argument is that Goku didn't know how strong he would exactly get after the Zenkai and is just going off of his current power?
 
CloverDragon03 said:
As for the downscaling stuff, my reason for disagreeing with it stems from the fact that Vegeta's power level was weaker than normal before he used the Power Ball, so his PL as an Oozaru wouldn't necessarily be 180,000, and thus it wouldn't be equal to Namek Saga Kaioken x2 Goku's

So yeah, I'm shifting from neutral to disagreeing. This is also just a bunch of downscaling from First Form Frieza which I'm not a fan of
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Completely agree here
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Vegeta hadn't recovered from his injuries from his fight with Goku, though, so I don't get the whole "no strain" thing
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That’s not the point

Oozaru makes you 1/10th stronger so your base would be exactly 1/10th of your Oozaru state

If Vegeta’s BP in oozaru when he’s injured is 80k

Then when he detranforms it would be 8k

If Vegeta is capable of Oozaru then it doesn’t matter if he’s strained in battle when he turns Oozaru as he would naturally be just 1/10th of his Oozaru Power in base with no strain
Damage3245 said:
To be honest, I'm not sure that he should. This is Goku saying that after his wounds would be healed he'd be able to go and help them and as a Saiyan, he would receive a huge power boost by the time he'd be ready to fight Frieza (which was proven true when he returned to the battlefield and fought with 4th form Frieza).

Not the same KKx10 Goku who fought Ginyu.
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I’m not sure I think the op is just using what’s already accepted
CloverDragon03 said:
...Honestly somehow I didn't even think about that

A post-Zenkai Goku would've been what would help against 2nd Form Frieza, which is supported. And well, if we wanna talk power levels, Goku's would be 900,000 at Kaioken x10, and 2nd Form Frieza's is stated to be over 1 million, so it's questionable how much he would've been able to help

I'm assuming the argument is that Goku didn't know how strong he would exactly get after the Zenkai and is just going off of his current power?
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I didn’t even think about this part but yeah that’s true
 
CloverDragon03 said:
As for the downscaling stuff, my reason for disagreeing with it stems from the fact that Vegeta's power level was weaker than normal before he used the Power Ball, so his PL as an Oozaru wouldn't necessarily be 180,000, and thus it wouldn't be equal to Namek Saga Kaioken x2 Goku's
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every statement for Oozaru says it multiplies "battle power", in fact not one says "strength" plainly.

if anything, the linear 10x Oozaru multiplier should be removed. (though there is this statement saying Goku got 10x stronger from Gravity Training)
 
Funny thing is increases in BP were meant to be linear. So toriyama did want a 10X multi to Ape form which is why he put such a huge one to SSJ.
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
Funny thing is increases in BP were meant to be linear. So toriyama did want a 10X multi to Ape form which is why he put such a huge one to SSJ.
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No? he even said he felt like SSJ was a 10x multiplier as he was drawing the manga, and the 50x thing was something the Daizenshuu people thought of as far as I know.
 
Oh yeah the problem was this : He envisioned SSJ as a 10x multiplier, but had already plotted/wrote out that Freeza was 2x stronger than Kaioken x20. Therefore, it was assumed by Assistant-kun, the editor and the reader that it was a 50x multiplier because it simply needed to be something greater than 40x at the time of its introduction.
 
Since the battle power is being used here to correlates with the characters' AP and there is some people here who doesn't agree with Namek Saga KK10x scaling to Second Form Frieza, but how about scaling him to be stronger than First Form Frieza? Since Namek Saga KK10x Goku has a battle power of 900k while First Form Frieza has 530k, which would make Goku superior to 4.89 Quettatons in this way
 
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The thing I find funny is the same people who agreed with the toei one disagree with this one

I mean axing the multipliers would be the only accurate way to do things because the reasons for disagreeing with this crt are literally that people aren’t a fan of how it’s being done

It seems simple in my head since we accept that KKx10 Goku scales to a certain level and we accept KKx10 as a 10 multiplier so Base is 1/10 of that Kaioken x2 is 2/10 of that which is equivalent to Oozaru Vegeta

The same way Base Goku would automatically downscale 1/10 from KKx10 is the same as how Vegeta would downscale 1/10 from Oozaru

The Power Ball literally doesn’t matter because you wouldn’t downscale 10x from a tired out Vegeta for his full stamina state of his base that argument doesn’t even make sense
 
Damage3245 said:
Even still, Goku wanting to help the others isn't proof by itself that he definitely scales to Frieza. He'd want to be there even if Frieza was above him.
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This is already accepted in the current AP blog and in Z Goku's profiles
CloverDragon03 said:
As for the downscaling stuff, my reason for disagreeing with it stems from the fact that Vegeta's power level was weaker than normal before he used the Power Ball, so his PL as an Oozaru wouldn't necessarily be 180,000, and thus it wouldn't be equal to Namek Saga Kaioken x2 Goku's

So yeah, I'm shifting from neutral to disagreeing. This is also just a bunch of downscaling from First Form Frieza which I'm not a fan of
Click to expand...
Vegeta in his uninjured base state would scale 1/10th to his full power Oozaru self which has a battle power of 180,000 (Oozaru is stated to increase battle power by 10x so this isn't me treating it as linearly) and Kaioken x3 Goku scales to base Vegeta and so on and so fourth. Ice777 already went over this many times
Spinoirr said:
Didn't Null already make a ap blog with the updated multipliers already
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He doesn't use the calculation for Cell destroying the solar system, Namek Saga Kaioken x10 Goku doesn't get backscaling from second form Frieza (which, again, is currently accepted), and he doesn't use the SSJ2 multiplier of >500x so some aspects are a bit outdated but the multipliers aren't.
Nierre said:
Okay then yeah definitely disagree.


Toei is a whole other... issue..(😒)
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This isn't in defense of my own scaling chain but Toei already had Large Planet level to Dwarf Star level feats for beginning of Z characters so Beginning of Z Goku being Dwarf Star level+ due to backscaling from Vegeta destroying Arlia is not a problem whatsoever.
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Let's remember that 10,000 is needed to destroy a planet, according to that one guidebook.
Frieza did say that Earth was small, but still
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It's actually not stated that a power level of 10,000 is "required" only that a character with a battle power of 10,000 is capable of doing so, which does not entail that the full extent of it.


Just incase the AP blog doesn't get accepted due to Saiyan Saga characters backscaling from Frieza, I've just made a new one using the exact same multipliers just without saying Oozaru Vegeta = Namek Saga Kaioken x 2 Goku (which I still stand by)
 
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Ednaxel2 said:
He doesn't use the calculation for Cell destroying the solar system, Namek Saga Kaioken x10 Goku doesn't get backscaling from second form Frieza (which, again, is currently accepted), and he doesn't use the SSJ2 multiplier of >500x so some aspects are a bit outdated but the multipliers aren't.
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it also uses the 3x Karin training multiplier instead of 2x


speaking of, you should add the multipliers for the Tier 8 characters too
 
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