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Would be pretty redundant to be honest, special techniques already grant damage boost.If we use this,could Frieza at least get "a higher with Nova Strike"
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Would be pretty redundant to be honest, special techniques already grant damage boost.If we use this,could Frieza at least get "a higher with Nova Strike"
Yeah, Goku was never going all out in his fight with Frieza. Them being "Equals" was just a narrator statement about them looking equal. Goku literally states somewhere down the line that fighting is pointless because "He's too easy." He know Frieza reached his limit while Goku basically stated the PL he used against Frieza was "Just a warm up" for him. Which it would be if 80% of his power was more than enough against Frieza's 100%. Plus he found Frieza too predictable among other things (Goku could sense energy in that fight but Frieza could not). So I think SSJ Goku being 1.25x stronger/faster is still consistent.
Guess Frieza gets downscaled tooGoku and Frieza were never equals throughout their fight. Goku taunted Frieza after receiving a flurry of punches head-on, countered a sneak attack and flung Frieza with such force that he needed to use an energy blast to halt himself, and then proceeded to beat him silly.
The only worthwhile damage Frieza inflicted was with his Nova Strike, which visibly pushed his limits, is explicitly described as his 最大出力 ("maximum output"), and only worked because Goku was preoccupied maintaining his Kamehameha and was caught off-guard.
50% Frieza would scale to Kaio-ken x20 Goku's 8.15140859464 QT, and 16.3028172 QT at 100%, which is slightly below SSJ Goku's 20.3785214866 QT.
Which would mean?I'm gonna point out that Oozaru scaling to their power levels, but the base forms not scaling to 1/10th of the Oozaru's strength is stupid.
Because given Power level's nature of being an inconsistent mess, it implies the Oozaru form itself gives a different boost in power to the base user based on the base user's power level.
Vegeta's 18000 to 180000 is a near 400.000x boost (According to AP calcs) (89.16 Zettatons vs 203.8 Ronnatons)
But Raditz's 1500 to 15000 isn't nearly that much? (4.458 Zetta vs 59.44 Zetta), at only 13.3x?
Why? The form should give the same multiplier to every user.
10x is the safest low end as a form multiplier, and while this does cause Vegeta to get stronger by causation, it doesn't matter.Which would mean?
This is about the Oozaru. I didn't remove the movie as canon, my thread wasn't about that. Currently it's 50/50 whether or not the 50x multiplier applies, the thread is very divided.Since you are proposing that the "it's Super Saiyan on top of SSJG" thing to be not a thing in the manga, due to you also removing the movie as canon to the said manga, would the 10x multiplier apply to speed as well or just power?
Yeah, that makes sense.10x is the safest low end as a form multiplier, and while this does cause Vegeta to get stronger by causation, it doesn't matter.
This is about the Oozaru. I didn't remove the movie as canon, my thread wasn't about that. Currently it's 50/50 whether or not the 50x multiplier applies, the thread is very divided.
In case of the Oozaru form, it objectively doesn't apply to speed, as explained by Paragus
I've also presented evidence that Saiyan Saga Goku receives backscaling from Namek Saga Goku, so this seems rather inevitable. We lack a reason to disallow the scaling, instead, we rely on skepticism, which is only valid to a certain extent.Is there any compromise we can reach where Oozaru Vegeta does not recieve backscaling from the Namek Saga?
That's the range that matters for this thread and the range we can prove there is a linear increase without much problem.Why exclusively that range?
fr10x is the safest low end as a form multiplier, and while this does cause Vegeta to get stronger by causation, it doesn't matter.
What do you disagree about?I'll bite.
Why?
Power levels aren't linear except when Kaio-Ken and Super Saiyan is involvedShouldn't DB characters strength scale 1/3 to 1/2.5 from their max Ki attacks?
I would say that doesn’t really matter much, that technique is performed like that no matter the circumstancewith just one finger
Power levels aren't linear except when Kaio-Ken and Super Saiyan is involved
DB characters physicals are scaled to their casual Ki blasts, since they often can block or punch away Ki blasts easily. This includes beams who can be charged in a somewhat short time.
Frieza's planet Vegeta destruction feat (where most of the characters here scale to) is done extremely casually, with just one finger and while laughing on a floating chair. Frieza putting any actual effort when fighting would exceed that blast's power by a significant margin.
They never said they did, they are just asking for your basis.What do you disagree about?
The Oozaru multipliers are already accepted and on the profiles, as is backscaling from them, so I don’t see why that would need a new thread.I think there should be another thread regarding the Oozaru multipliers and downscaling the Frieza feat to Saiyan Saga characters
Cause some mods disagree with Saiyan Saga characters downscaling from Frieza, getting them to Large Planet levelThe Oozaru multipliers are already accepted and on the profiles, as is backscaling from them, so I don’t see why that would need a new thread.
ABSOLUTELY NOTNow that 22nd Budokai Goku is 5-C, think Pilaf Saga Goku becomes High 6-A
ABSOLUTELY NOT
Coming from the description of Kid Goku when he had a PL of 180, so it's unambiguously talking about 22nd Budokai GokuEmperor Pilaf Saga Goku is >=20x weaker than his Post-Korin Training self
I don't care? We're not allowing this downscaling for obvious reasons.Coming from the description of Kid Goku when he had a PL of 180, so it's unambiguously talking about 22nd Budokai Goku
Ehh, seems kinda in the same boat as Saiyan Saga downscaling reallyI don't care? We're not allowing this downscaling for obvious reasons.
Oh yeah you just forgot about the literally uncountable anti-feats and tier 8 feats from that Era that are quadrillions of joules apart from High 6-A, unlike Vegeta who has no real anti-feat other than a vague statement. This isn't even remotely comparable.Ehh, seems kinda in the same boat as Saiyan Saga downscaling really
They're also anti-feats for Pilaf Goku's current rating, so don't think they're really that big of a problem,Oh yeah you just forgot about the literally uncountable anti-feats and tier 8 feats from that Era that are quadrillions of joules apart from High 6-A, unlike Vegeta who has no real anti-feat other than a vague statement. This isn't even remotely comparable.
Mind the gap.They're also anti-feats for Pilaf Goku's current rating, so don't think they're really that big of a problem,DB is full of anti-feats even up to the King Piccolo saga anyway
BoZ doesn’t have any anti-feats in regards to that backscaling while the Pilaf Saga has a massive amount. They’re not comparable situations.The Saiyan Saga downscaling also kinda goes all the way back to BoZ anyway, not just Vegeta