Downstreamers : Law Manipulation addition | Adaptation & Reactive Eevolutionn granting Tier Jump to 1-A+?

[Threemagi]

Revisions for both The Goddess of The Manifold and Downstreamers since they scale.

Law Manipulation
Downstreamers can control all mathematic/logic systems, changing the type/rules of entire cosmology.

Adaptation & Reactive Evolution
On Downstreamers page, its said that it can 'regenerate into much more powerful form' under Regenerationn.

So, at first, they are actually just merely 2-C. And after that, they got utterly erased/destroyed by High 1-B - Low 1-A multiverse destruction... and then, they come/'regenerate' back (much more powerful than before) as Likely 1-A being?

This shows massive jump in tiers, and shows a very potent Reactive Evolution .

When they're just 2-C, if killed , they become 1-A . Now imagine , if they are killed while in 1-A state , then would they have massive jump in tier to become 1-A+ ?

In this thread, both almost get rated as possibly far higher/High1-A anyway. Only scrapped at last seconds.

Conclusion

• Addition of Law Manipulation to their pages.
• Addition of Adaptation and Reactive Evolution to their pages.
• Addition of [Possibly can Eventually reach 1-A+ through continuous evolution] to their pages.

 

[Threemagi]

Bump

 

[Elizhaa]

I think Law Manipulation would fine. Though I would have prefer more context, I think Adaptation and Reactive Evolution could be fine.

I don't agree the upgrade would be to High 1-A; the best I can think it would be is up to Tier 1-A+ like SCP-3812's case.

 

[Antvasima]

Law manipulation seems fine, but I do not know about reactive evaluation and adaptation to higher tiers than what they already have. You should ask other knowledgeable members to comment here,

 

[Elizhaa]

I think I will agree the tier should remain the same.

 

[Threemagi]

I think Law Manipulation would fine. Though I would have prefer more context,

Err, actually, now I thought about it, it might be 'Logic Manipulation' under Mathematics Manipulation

here is the context :

"We don't know how they do it. But they changed the rules, "Nemoto said.
Emma said hesitantly, "So they found a way to create a lot more universes."

Manekato said, "We believe the Old Ones created, not just a multiplicity of daughter universes, but an infinite number ." The bulky Daemon studied Emma's face, seeking understanding.

"Infinity is significant, you see," Nemoto said, too rapidly. "There is, umm, a qualitative difference between a large number, however large, and infinity. In the infinite manifold, in that infinite ensemble, all logically possible universes must exist. And therefore all logically possible destinies must unfold. Everything that is possible will happen, somewhere out there. They are created a grand stage, you see, Emma: a stage for endless possibilities of life and mind. " .
How about it? Would they still qualify as having Law Manipulation?

Also, 'infinite ensemble' might mean infinite amount of Type IV Multiverses?

I think Adaptation and Reactive Evolution could be fine.
Okay

Law manipulation seems fine, but I do not know about reactive evaluation and adaptation to higher tiers than what they already have. You should ask other knowledgeable members to comment here,

Thank you for the suggestion.

Elizhaa"] I think I will agree the tier should remain the same. [/quote]
What about Up To 1-A+?

Summary

• Law Manipulation might be okay to be added
• Adaptation & Reactive Evolution are okay to be added. However, no Jump in Tiers to High 1-A . If its allowed, it would be 1-A+ at best.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't see why that would be Law Manipulation, I'd like context actually showing them changing laws.

Adaptation and Reactive Evolution are both wrong. That sounds more like Reactive Power Level.

I disagree with all jumps in tiers, that seems very NLF-y. They were 2-C, they got wiped out by High 1-B to Low 1-A destruction and came back as 1-A. That doesn't mean that they'll continue coming back stronger after this, it's conjecture, and unless a power level after they're erased is hinted that it shouldn't be included on the profile - as that would just be a fanfic of "what if they got nuked again!" On top of this, it ESPECIALLY doesn't mean that they'd perform an infinite number of jumps, equal to the size of one jump they did earlier, all at once.

At absolute best it could get "higher via Reactive Power Level", but I'd like more input on this, and it definitely shouldn't get 1-A+.

 

[Antvasima]

You should ask FanofRPGs and Ultima Reality to comment here.

 

[Promestein]

Agreed with Agnaa.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that Agnaa makes sense. I did not see his message earlier.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't agree the upgrade would be to High 1-A; the best I can think it would be is up to Tier 1-A+ like SCP-3812's case.

I'd like to point out that SCP-3812 only got 1-A+ because we found two statements saying that it would eventually reach the top, and we found another statement showing what tier it would get from reaching the top. Before this it was simply rated at higher over time.

It also helps that it has had many regular jumps going one reality-fiction difference at a time, as opposed to the Downstreamers who (as far as I can tell from this thread) just went from 2-C to 1-A after regenerating once.

 

[Threemagi]

@Agnaa Thank you for the analysis. The context for Law Manipulation is my reply to @Elizhaa's post.

@Promestein Okay

@Antvasima I think its no need. I also think it shouldn't be 1-A+ too.

@Agnaa So Reactive Power Level instead of Reactive Evolution? Okay. But They did get new powers : Beyond-Dimensional Existence, won't Reactive Evolution fits better in this context?

 

[Agnaa]

I saw that reply, but all I can see there is that the Old Ones "changed the rules" to create more universes. I'd like to get a better understanding of the context around this.

That power's, imo, mostly a byproduct of them being stronger. I think Reactive Power Level is still more fitting.

 

[Threemagi]

Well, I myself am not very familiar with this so I think I would stop advocating for Law Manipulation.
That power's, imo, mostly a byproduct of them being stronger. I think Reactive Power Level is still more fitting.

Okay. So , in summary :
Summary

• Qualifies for Reactive Power Level to Pre Key and Possibly Post Key.

Anybody has other opinions?

 

[Agnaa]

I don't quite want to rule Law Manip out just yet, I'd like to see what other people familiar with the verse think.

 

[Threemagi]

I don't quite want to rule Law Manip out just yet, I'd like to see what other people familiar with the verse think.

@ZacharyGrossman273 might be familiar. If you want to wait.


Anyway, do you think Post Key should have Reactive Power Level or not? As you said, there's no guarantee that in 1-A state they'd be able to do it infinitely like SCP 3812 could.


Personally, I'd put 'Possibly have Reactive Power Level (their previous form transformed into much stronger form when killed. However, its not clear how many times they can get stronger through this)'


What do you think?

 

[Agnaa]

I agree with possibly.

 

[Threemagi]

I agree with possibly.

Thank you.


Umm, its a bit unrelated to the thread but, is Tegmark IV Multiverse (encompassing all mathematics / formal syatems , modal logic and possibly paraconsistent logic) level capped at 1-A? not higher?

 

[Agnaa]

Umm, its a bit unrelated to the thread but, is Tegmark IV Multiverse (encompassing all mathematics / formal syatems , modal logic and possibly paraconsistent logic) level capped at 1-A? not higher?

Just like with everything, you don't get a tier for referencing something, you get a tier for what concrete descriptions/feats the verse provides.

 

[Threemagi]

Just like with everything, you don't get a tier for referencing something, you get a tier for what concrete descriptions/feats the verse provides.

Btw, its not mere reference (like : 'This is Tegmark IV Mv', no, its not like that). Cosmology truly does get described as that in here

Also, they kinda get both. One time its said as I written above, and other time its said they're beyond mathematical operations (and also beyond very structure of spacetime btw)


Summary : What's Updated

• Qualifies for Reactive Power Level to Pre Key and Possibly Post Key.

@Antvasima I can do the edits right now if you want.

 

[Antvasima]

Something like this then?

"Possibly Reactive Power Level (They transformed into a much stronger form when killed. However, it is not clear if they can continue to get stronger this way)"

 

[Elizhaa]

From what read, I think it could work.

 

[Threemagi]

Sorry for the lateness

@Antvasima Yeah, exactly like that. Both Keys should have that.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock the Downstreamers page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Changing the rules of the manifold is law manip

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

It's under notable attacks/techniques

 

[Antvasima]

Have the edits been performed yet?

 

[Threemagi]

@Ant Sorry for late reply. Yes, it's already finished. Thank you, you can lock it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

What is left to do here?

 

[Agnaa]

Zach has recently come in saying that the Downstreamers should have law manip, perhaps we should hear him out?

@Zach What feats/statements imply law manip?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Jockey-1337]

About Downstreamers:

Likely High Hyperverse level (Individual Pre-FVC Downstreamers are intangible neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational beings, which could survive the collapse of an infinitely-layered reality) | At least Low Outerverse level , Likely Outerverse level


I think we need to delete "High Hyperverse" fragment.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

Zach has recently come in saying that the Downstreamers should have law manip, perhaps we should hear him out?

@Zach What feats/statements imply law manip?

The "changing the rules of the manifold" thing

Also y high 1-B dura needs to be removed from first key

 

[Agnaa]

I saw that reply, but all I can see there is that the Old Ones "changed the rules" to create more universes. I'd like to get a better understanding of the context around this.

I don't see why that would be Law Manipulation, I'd like context actually showing them changing laws.

 

[Threemagi]

About Downstreamers:

Likely High Hyperverse level (Individual Pre-FVC Downstreamers are intangible neutrino/quantum consciousness/informational beings, which could survive the collapse of an infinitely-layered reality) | At least Low Outerverse level , Likely Outerverse level


I think we need to delete "High Hyperverse" fragment.

You just need to make another CRT then.

I admit I missed that part on my edit. But eh, whats done is done.