Downgraded 5-B Hyuga Hinata

[Deceived3596]

I'm alone

 

[Kachon123]

I love you Decieved

 

[Second22]

I'm sorry, I didn't want that. But the person acts too stupid, acts like he doesn't accept the truth in order to The thread that I used to Up was right, despite the fact that a character like Himata had already accepted it. But he just didn't accept it. Like he's struggling to survive

Stay calm, you don't have to be rude. It's normal for CRT to require waiting for all counterarguments. Being rude is not a solution that will end the CRT.

 

[mal]

agreed.it should be "Likely/possibly higher" not "possibly 5B"

its unknown how much chakra naruto need to go bsm again after it got absorded by toneri.it can mean naruto didnt have 10% more chakra to go BSM bcuz it got absorbed and Hinata only refilled 10% naruto's chakra

plus we saw naruto still can go into BSM after he used everything he have to punch toneri

and we didnt know if hinata can control her+hamura chakra to give her 5b bcuz just like u said Chakra≠AP.so Hinata refilled naruto's chakra doesnt mean she scaled to Naruto AP

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

agreed.it should be "Likely/possibly higher" not "possibly 5B"

its unknown how much chakra naruto need to go bsm again after it got absorded by toneri.it can mean naruto didnt have 10% more chakra to go BSM bcuz it got absorbed and Hinata only refilled 10% naruto's chakra

plus we saw naruto still can go into BSM after he used everything he have to punch toneri

and we didnt know if hinata can control her+hamura chakra to give her 5b bcuz just like u said Chakra≠AP.so Hinata refilled naruto's chakra doesnt mean she scaled to Naruto AP

Naruto was almost at 0, when he got his chakra absorbed by Toneri to the point where toneri stopped drainning him but once Hinata touched him we saw Naruto's chakra aura that was not existing before it means he got a very substancial amount of chakra from Hinata.

Chakra+ chakra control= AP we have a blog for that. To begin with the fact that she can transfer that amount of chakra to Naruto means she can use it for AP we know that transfer is much harder than form jutsu also Hinata is already a perfect chakra control user because of her twin lion fists we also know she can easily use outside sources of chakra to amp her attack potency easily like we saw when she deflected Juubi. Its already on her profile im not gonna repeat the profile here again

 

[Tdjwo]

Alright! Another day, new solutions. As I promised, I will tackle every single point that heads to the direction of downgrades for Hinata and explain why they make absolutely no sense. I rewatched the entire movie again and have a bit of a different/new opinion on this entire matter after consulting someone who's very knowledgeable on Hinata's scaling. Firstly, let's start with the basics.

Did Hinata actually receive Hamura's chakra amp, or was it simply just her bloodline as a Hyuga member being referenced under Hamura?

In The Last: Naruto The Movie's dub and sub, Hinata used the word "Hamura's bloodline" and "Hamura's chakra" at two different times, implying that they both meant two different things, which is supported by the fact that she actually performed different things with the words she described them.
When she used the word "Hamura's bloodline," she was explaining to Naruto how not just anyone could touch the Tenseigan orb because it had a curse sealed on it. Only someone with Hamura's bloodline could touch it.
On the other hand, when she used the word "Hamura's chakra," she had just finished replenishing Naruto's chakra, which surprised Toneri, which in turn made him ask her how and why she was able to do that, then she replied, It's because...Hamura's chakra flows within me too."
If you paid close attention to the movie, you would realize that Toneri knew Hinata was immune to the Tenseigan because she had the bloodline limit to destroy the Tenseigan without getting cursed by the jutsu which is why he had his puppet guards keep a close watch on her so that she wouldn't make any move. But what Toneri didn't know was that Hinata had met Hamura, who bestowed his chakra onto her. That is why he was surprised and baffled as to how and why Hinata was able to refill Naruto's chakra reserves. Toneri wasn't surprised that Hinata could stop the Tenseigan from extracting Naruto's chakra reserves. He already knew she could do that when the Tenseigan energy vessel got destroyed. Instead, Toneri was surprised that Hinata somehow had enough chakra to replenish Naruto's reserves, which he never knew she could do.
What does this imply?
This implies that her failure to destroy the Tenseigan by herself at that moment she claimed she had the bloodline limit to touch the Tenseigan doesn't downscale her later feat of replenishing Naruto's entire reserves when she stated she had the chakra of Hamura. She used both words at two different times, for two different purposes.
This also implies that she does indeed have the bloodline limit of Hamura as a Hyuga clan member, while at the same time, she obtained the chakra of Hamura during her encounter with Hamura.
Now that we've got that out of the way let's move to the next question.

Was Naruto's chakra really low enough for us to consider Hinata replenishing him as something significant?

When Toneri was absorbing BSM Naruto's chakra, Naruto made a statement that Toneri was absorbing all of his chakra. A few seconds later, the Tenseigan stopped absorbing Naruto's chakra, and we see Naruto kneel on the ground, shaking, trembling and visibly weakened in base form. This means the Tenseigan had successfully absorbed all of SM Naruto + half Kurama's chakra till the point he had to kneel on the ground panting really hard. This behaviour is something that Naruto had done before in the war arc. In the war arc, he started panting hard which Madara noticed and claimed that he had reached his limit because Naruto had expended all his chakra reserves due to him carrying the entire shinobi alliance with his kyuubi chakra. The way Naruto knelt and acted was completely identical to how Naruto acted in The Last. To better support my argument, Sakura specifically stated that it was time for Naruto to recover as he still stayed in that same position, visibly exhausted as everyone rallied round to protect Naruto has he had run out of chakra. Moments later, we see Kurama amassing chakra in that position where he joins his palm together which indicates that Kurama was indeed empty on chakra thus needing quite some time to build more chakra as Minato takes over in place of Naruto. And we know it takes quite some time for Kurama to mould chakra for Naruto to re-enter his KCM mode which is why Yang Kurama asked Yin Kurama to lend him some chakra as it was taking too long for him to fully replenish Naruto on time.
All these proves that Naruto in The Last was completely out of chakra both in his base form, and with Kurama's chakra supply based on similar incidents that happened in the war arc. He acted even worse in The last. He acted more exhausted in base form than he did in the war arc. So for Hinata to completely replenish him and take him back to Bijuu Sage Mode(not just KCM2), it shows how significant her chakra supply was to Naruto.

Momoshiki also absorbed Naruto's chakra, and he reacted to the pain similarly as he did in The Last. He also couldn't free himself from the Shinju tree. Yet he could still jump back into SPSM the moment the Kages freed him from the Shinju tree. Doesn't this prove that Naruto doesn't necessarily need to be empty on chakra to react to his chakra being absorbed in pain and agony?

Shadowbokunohero made this statement as a counter to Toneri absorbing all of Naruto's chakra based on how exhausted and gassed out Naruto was. But this didn't really prove anything. Instead, it created an unnecessary circular argument.

It's quite illogical to compare Momoshiki's absorption to Toneri's for multiple reasons.

• Toneri only needed to absorb Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto's chakra(half Kurama) along with the six paths chakra inside him because the other half of Kurama(Yin Kurama) was busy fighting Hamura's Golem. In contrast, Momoshiki needed to absorb Naruto's entire chakra reserves, including full Kurama. In order words, Momoshiki needed to absorb more chakra from Naruto which would take more time than Toneri did since he only had to absorb half Kurama's chakra.
• Naruto was already physically exhausted from absorbing Momoshiki's entire bijuudama in the village. That was the reason Momoshiki and Kinshiki were able to capture Naruto in the first place. And immediately they brought him to that dimension, Momoshiki proceeded to start absorbing his chakra which would obviously make Naruto suffer even more from physical strain. Meanwhile, against Toneri, Naruto wasn't physically exhausted, nor was he chakra exhausted prior to Toneri absorbing his entire chakra. He was completely fine. But after Toneri completely absorbs his chakra, we see him on the ground struggling to keep himself together.
• Toneri's absorption is way faster and more powerful than Momoshiki's absorption. Not only did Toneri absorb base Naruto's chakra+sage mode chakra+half Kurama chakra under seconds compared to Momoshiki, who's been absorbing half Kurama's chakra for quite a long while, but Toneri's absorption power was ridiculously too powerful that it started absorbing the sun's energy passively which is a level of absorption power Momoshiki's rinnegan never showed unless you try using the novel statements where it's stated that he absorbed a star. But we don't accept statements from the novel for obvious reasons.
• Lastly, it's very obvious that Naruto could fight Momoshiki despite getting his chakra absorbed only because Momoshiki failed to absorb all of his chakra. Naruto still had 50% Kurama intact along with his six paths chakra, unlike in The Last where Toneri absorbed all the chakra Naruto had at that moment.

With all these facts, it's very clear that you can't use Momoshiki's situation/scenario to dismiss Toneri absorbing all of Naruto's chakra.

Even if Hinata refilled all of BSM Naruto's chakra, how does that boost her AP to Low 5B, possibly 5B?

It's accepted on this wiki that Chakra amount+Potency/control=AP. I kindly advise you all to read it. And in this link, it's directly referenced how Hinata's air palm increased her AP based on Kurama's chakra amp

We know how much weaker Hinata's regular air palms are compared to how it was when it got amped by Kurama's chakra. This indicates a direct correlation as to how an increase in chakra reserves as well as its potency and control could drastically increase the AP of a character, especially in Hinata's case as shown.
So for her to be capable of replenishing BSM Naruto's entire reserves and taking him back to BSM mode means her chakra amount+Potency=AP and thus would be scaled to BSM Naruto, who is Low 5B, possibly 5B in AP. Obviously, this shouldn't mean that she's capable of contending with BSM Naruto in combat because she lacks the speed, versatility, and some other things that Naruto has. But she does have the AP and durability (2) of BSM Naruto.

And moreover, Hinata is not the only Naruto character on this website that is scaled to a certain tier based on chakra+potency=AP. Hashirama is also scaled using the same method.

Attack Potency: Large Mountain level+ (As an Edo Tensei, he stated that he had more chakra than both Naruto and 50% Kurama combined[14].

Miscellaneous

• Kishimoto worked on the movie, changed and added some of the contents in the movie's script that never made it to the novel(which he had no involvement in). It was stated that Kishimoto made the editors edit the movie's original script so many times that they got pissed at him.
• This is proven as the entire part of the movie where Toneri absorbed Naruto's chakra with the green orb, and when Hinata touched and gave Naruto her chakra never happened in the novel. Instead, it jumped from Naruto, defeating Toneri with a punch, to Toneri absorbing energy from the sun. That means Kishimoto added this entire part in the movie as opposed to what the original scriptwriter in the novel did.
• And since the movie had Kishimoto's direct supervision over the plot as well as his edits in contrast to the novel, whatever happens in the movie that is quite different from the novel, or that wasn't included in the novel doesn't make it insignificant. In fact, it proves that the movie holds more of a greater canonicity than the novel since Kishimoto personally added new ideas in it.

That said, these are all my arguments supporting The Last Hinata remaining in tier Low 5B, possibly 5B. Please, if anyone wants to reply, please don't act delusional like the OP who hurled only insults at me without using proper logic to even address his or my points due to his lack of proper reading comprehension. And please, do not derail. Thank you.

 

[Stryker861]

Very well put together Tdjwo

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Toneri knew Hinata was a hyuga to begin with so he knew Hinata had Hamura's bloodline from the start so why would he be surprised if Hinata meant that she was just a hyuga?

Toneri's jutsu being able to absorb the sun is absurdly powerful because not rinnegan nor karma can absorb things that werent made of chakra but Toneri was absorbing light from the sun which clearly is not chakra related.

 

[Tdjwo]

Toneri knew Hinata was a hyuga to begin with so he knew Hinata had Hamura's bloodline from the start so why would he be surprised if Hinata meant that she was just a hyuga?

True. That's why I explained the reason Toneri was surprised at whatever hinata did to Naruto after he absorbed his chakra. He already knew Hinata had the Immunity of the tenseigan since she was a hyuga. But still he was surprised at Naruto standing up again after Hinata touched him. That means Hinata did refill Naruto's chakra(something Toneri never knew Hinata was capable of doing).

 

[GTsek]

Alright! Another day, new solutions. As I promised, I will tackle every single point that heads to the direction of downgrades for Hinata and explain why they make absolutely no sense. I rewatched the entire movie again and have a bit of a different/new opinion on this entire matter after consulting someone who's very knowledgeable on Hinata's scaling. Firstly, let's start with the basics.

Did Hinata actually receive Hamura's chakra amp, or was it simply just her bloodline as a Hyuga member being referenced under Hamura?

In The Last: Naruto The Movie's dub and sub, Hinata used the word "Hamura's bloodline" and "Hamura's chakra" at two different times, implying that they both meant two different things, which is supported by the fact that she actually performed different things with the words she described them.
When she used the word "Hamura's bloodline," she was explaining to Naruto how not just anyone could touch the Tenseigan orb because it had a curse sealed on it. Only someone with Hamura's bloodline could touch it.
On the other hand, when she used the word "Hamura's chakra," she had just finished replenishing Naruto's chakra, which surprised Toneri, which in turn made him ask her how and why she was able to do that, then she replied, It's because...Hamura's chakra flows within me too."
If you paid close attention to the movie, you would realize that Toneri knew Hinata was immune to the Tenseigan because she had the bloodline limit to destroy the Tenseigan without getting cursed by the jutsu which is why he had his puppet guards keep a close watch on her so that she wouldn't make any move. But what Toneri didn't know was that Hinata had met Hamura, who bestowed his chakra onto her. That is why he was surprised and baffled as to how and why Hinata was able to refill Naruto's chakra reserves. Toneri wasn't surprised that Hinata could stop the Tenseigan from extracting Naruto's chakra reserves. He already knew she could do that when the Tenseigan energy vessel got destroyed. Instead, Toneri was surprised that Hinata somehow had enough chakra to replenish Naruto's reserves, which he never knew she could do.
What does this imply?
This implies that her failure to destroy the Tenseigan by herself at that moment she claimed she had the bloodline limit to touch the Tenseigan doesn't downscale her later feat of replenishing Naruto's entire reserves when she stated she had the chakra of Hamura. She used both words at two different times, for two different purposes.
This also implies that she does indeed have the bloodline limit of Hamura as a Hyuga clan member, while at the same time, she obtained the chakra of Hamura during her encounter with Hamura.
Now that we've got that out of the way let's move to the next question.

Was Naruto's chakra really low enough for us to consider Hinata replenishing him as something significant?

When Toneri was absorbing BSM Naruto's chakra, Naruto made a statement that Toneri was absorbing all of his chakra. A few seconds later, the Tenseigan stopped absorbing Naruto's chakra, and we see Naruto kneel on the ground, shaking, trembling and visibly weakened in base form. This means the Tenseigan had successfully absorbed all of SM Naruto + half Kurama's chakra till the point he had to kneel on the ground panting really hard. This behaviour is something that Naruto had done before in the war arc. In the war arc, he started panting hard which Madara noticed and claimed that he had reached his limit because Naruto had expended all his chakra reserves due to him carrying the entire shinobi alliance with his kyuubi chakra. The way Naruto knelt and acted was completely identical to how Naruto acted in The Last. To better support my argument, Sakura specifically stated that it was time for Naruto to recover as he still stayed in that same position, visibly exhausted as everyone rallied round to protect Naruto has he had run out of chakra. Moments later, we see Kurama amassing chakra in that position where he joins his palm together which indicates that Kurama was indeed empty on chakra thus needing quite some time to build more chakra as Minato takes over in place of Naruto. And we know it takes quite some time for Kurama to mould chakra for Naruto to re-enter his KCM mode which is why Yang Kurama asked Yin Kurama to lend him some chakra as it was taking too long for him to fully replenish Naruto on time.
All these proves that Naruto in The Last was completely out of chakra both in his base form, and with Kurama's chakra supply based on similar incidents that happened in the war arc. He acted even worse in The last. He acted more exhausted in base form than he did in the war arc. So for Hinata to completely replenish him and take him back to Bijuu Sage Mode(not just KCM2), it shows how significant her chakra supply was to Naruto.

Momoshiki also absorbed Naruto's chakra, and he reacted to the pain similarly as he did in The Last. He also couldn't free himself from the Shinju tree. Yet he could still jump back into SPSM the moment the Kages freed him from the Shinju tree. Doesn't this prove that Naruto doesn't necessarily need to be empty on chakra to react to his chakra being absorbed in pain and agony?

Shadowbokunohero made this statement as a counter to Toneri absorbing all of Naruto's chakra based on how exhausted and gassed out Naruto was. But this didn't really prove anything. Instead, it created an unnecessary circular argument.

It's quite illogical to compare Momoshiki's absorption to Toneri's for multiple reasons.

• Toneri only needed to absorb Bijuu Sage Mode Naruto's chakra(half Kurama) along with the six paths chakra inside him because the other half of Kurama(Yin Kurama) was busy fighting Hamura's Golem. In contrast, Momoshiki needed to absorb Naruto's entire chakra reserves, including full Kurama. In order words, Momoshiki needed to absorb more chakra from Naruto which would take more time than Toneri did since he only had to absorb half Kurama's chakra.
• Naruto was already physically exhausted from absorbing Momoshiki's entire bijuudama in the village. That was the reason Momoshiki and Kinshiki were able to capture Naruto in the first place. And immediately they brought him to that dimension, Momoshiki proceeded to start absorbing his chakra which would obviously make Naruto suffer even more from physical strain. Meanwhile, against Toneri, Naruto wasn't physically exhausted, nor was he chakra exhausted prior to Toneri absorbing his entire chakra. He was completely fine. But after Toneri completely absorbs his chakra, we see him on the ground struggling to keep himself together.
• Toneri's absorption is way faster and more powerful than Momoshiki's absorption. Not only did Toneri absorb base Naruto's chakra+sage mode chakra+half Kurama chakra under seconds compared to Momoshiki, who's been absorbing half Kurama's chakra for quite a long while, but Toneri's absorption power was ridiculously too powerful that it started absorbing the sun's energy passively which is a level of absorption power Momoshiki's rinnegan never showed unless you try using the novel statements where it's stated that he absorbed a star. But we don't accept statements from the novel for obvious reasons.
• Lastly, it's very obvious that Naruto could fight Momoshiki despite getting his chakra absorbed only because Momoshiki failed to absorb all of his chakra. Naruto still had 50% Kurama intact along with his six paths chakra, unlike in The Last where Toneri absorbed all the chakra Naruto had at that moment.

With all these facts, it's very clear that you can't use Momoshiki's situation/scenario to dismiss Toneri absorbing all of Naruto's chakra.

Even if Hinata refilled all of BSM Naruto's chakra, how does that boost her AP to Low 5B, possibly 5B?

It's accepted on this wiki that Chakra amount+Potency/control=AP. I kindly advise you all to read it. And in this link, it's directly referenced how Hinata's air palm increased her AP based on Kurama's chakra amp

We know how much weaker Hinata's regular air palms are compared to how it was when it got amped by Kurama's chakra. This indicates a direct correlation as to how an increase in chakra reserves as well as its potency and control could drastically increase the AP of a character, especially in Hinata's case as shown.
So for her to be capable of replenishing BSM Naruto's entire reserves and taking him back to BSM mode means her chakra amount+Potency=AP and thus would be scaled to BSM Naruto, who is Low 5B, possibly 5B in AP. Obviously, this shouldn't mean that she's capable of contending with BSM Naruto in combat because she lacks the speed, versatility, and some other things that Naruto has. But she does have the AP and durability (2) of BSM Naruto.

And moreover, Hinata is not the only Naruto character on this website that is scaled to a certain tier based on chakra+potency=AP. Hashirama is also scaled using the same method.


Miscellaneous

• Kishimoto worked on the movie, changed and added some of the contents in the movie's script that never made it to the novel(which he had no involvement in). It was stated that Kishimoto made the editors edit the movie's original script so many times that they got pissed at him.
• This is proven as the entire part of the movie where Toneri absorbed Naruto's chakra with the green orb, and when Hinata touched and gave Naruto her chakra never happened in the novel. Instead, it jumped from Naruto, defeating Toneri with a punch, to Toneri absorbing energy from the sun. That means Kishimoto added this entire part in the movie as opposed to what the original scriptwriter in the novel did.
• And since the movie had Kishimoto's direct supervision over the plot as well as his edits in contrast to the novel, whatever happens in the movie that is quite different from the novel, or that wasn't included in the novel doesn't make it insignificant. In fact, it proves that the movie holds more of a greater canonicity than the novel since Kishimoto personally added new ideas in it.

That said, these are all my arguments supporting The Last Hinata remaining in tier Low 5B, possibly 5B. Please, if anyone wants to reply, please don't act delusional like the OP who hurled only insults at me without using proper logic to even address his or my points due to his lack of proper reading comprehension. And please, do not derail. Thank you.

That resume my toughts. I disagree the downgrade.

 

[Nierre]

I'll go through your argument on the weekend when im free

 

[Testarossa002]

she didnt restore his chakra, she just stopped it from being extracted.

the tenseigan has a curse on it that extracts chakra from anyone who isnt from hamura''s bloodline. later on after Toneri is initially defeated he recreates the tenseigan using all the byakugan again , which extracts the chakra from naruto, however Hinata intervenes by sharing her chakra with naruto.

its the same principle that Naruto does with minato in the war arc where he adds his senjutsu to his rasengan so that they can harm Obito.

there's nothing to suggest Hinata refueled all of Naruto's chakra from zero.

and everyone thought i was crazy
Mentioned it several times in the upgrade thread

 

[Tdjwo]

and everyone thought i was crazy
Mentioned it several times in the upgrade thread

How about you read my response to all these "downgrades" huh?

 

[Testarossa002]

Naruto was almost at 0, when he got his chakra absorbed by Toneri to the point where toneri stopped drainning him but once Hinata touched him we saw Naruto's chakra aura that was not existing before it means he got a very substancial amount of chakra from Hinata.

I mean
Naruto got drained by the god tree in war arc and was back to Kurama mode after few panels with no outside interference

 

[Testarossa002]

This behaviour is something that Naruto had done before in the war arc. In the war arc, he started panting hard which Madara noticed and claimed that he had reached his limit because Naruto had expended all his chakra reserves due to him carrying the entire shinobi alliance with his kyuubi chakra. The way Naruto knelt and acted was completely identical to how Naruto acted in The Last. To better support my argument, Sakura specifically stated that it was time for Naruto to recover as he still stayed in that same position, visibly exhausted as everyone rallied round to protect Naruto has he had run out of chakra. Moments later, we see Kurama amassing chakra in that position where he joins his palm together which indicates that Kurama was indeed empty on chakra thus needing quite some time to build more chakra as Minato takes over in place of Naruto. And we know it takes quite some time for Kurama to mould chakra for Naruto to re-enter his KCM mode which is why Yang Kurama asked Yin Kurama to lend him some chakra as it was taking too long for him to fully replenish Naruto on time.

We also see Naruto get drained back to base here
And went back to kurama mode here
With no outside help

But she does have the AP and durability (2) of BSM Naruto.

Yh this
Meaning she should outscale base naruto with a fair margin
But
Naruto in his base form was about to shatter the orb with hinata dissuading him with the bloodline stuff
Only for hinata via self admission to show that she didn't have enough power to shatter the same thing
In the novelization of that scene
Naruto in inner dialogue says and i quote

Right… if neither of us is enough, we’ll compensate for each other!
Hinata could touch the Tenseigan, but she didn’t have enough chakra. On the other hand, Naruto couldn’t touch the Tenseigan, but had a massive amount of chakra… If the two of them combined their strength, he thought they could definitely do it.
“Hinata, infuse me with your chakra! If you do that, we might be able to break this thing!”
“Ok!” Hinata answered with a smile, and the two held hands.

This here is naruto not only saying that he needs hinata's perk of being able to touch the orb, but also saying that hinata has lesser chakra than himself in his base form
Add this to hinata not being able to break out of a cage made out of one green orb when BSM naruto was duking it out with the real deal
Someone with above BSM level AP(as she didn't look drained after supposedly refilling naruto) shouldn't be held back by that

So no

Please, if anyone wants to reply, please don't act delusional like the OP who hurled only insults at me without using proper logic to even address his or my points due to his lack of proper reading comprehension

This we can agree on

 

[Tdjwo]

We also see Naruto get drained back to base here
And went back to kurama mode here
With no outside help

That only means Naruto's entire reserves weren't drained. If Kurama could immediately take Naruto back into BSM, then it means the tree never completely drained him, which makes perfect sense considering even Shikamaru, who had 100x less chakra than Naruto, survived the chakra drain implying the tree's absorption speed was either inconsistent, slow, or plot nerfed in certain cases. Earlier, we vividly see Kurama needing extra time to recharge his chakra till the point that he has to ask his other half for more chakra to give Naruto. There's no way to disprove that.

Yh this
Meaning she should outscale base naruto with a fair margin
But
Naruto in his base form was about to shatter the orb with hinata dissuading him with the bloodline stuff
Only for hinata via self admission to show that she didn't have enough power to shatter the same thing
In the novelization of that scene
Naruto in inner dialogue says and i quote

Right… if neither of us is enough, we’ll compensate for each other!
Hinata could touch the Tenseigan, but she didn’t have enough chakra. On the other hand, Naruto couldn’t touch the Tenseigan, but had a massive amount of chakra… If the two of them combined their strength, he thought they could definitely do it.
“Hinata, infuse me with your chakra! If you do that, we might be able to break this thing!”
“Ok!” Hinata answered with a smile, and the two held hands.

This here is naruto not only saying that he needs hinata's perk of being able to touch the orb, but also saying that hinata has lesser chakra than himself in his base form
Add this to hinata not being able to break out of a cage made out of one green orb when BSM naruto was duking it out with the real deal
Someone with above BSM level AP(as she didn't look drained after supposedly refilling naruto) shouldn't be held back by that

So no

I really don't like repeating myself multiple times. The novel version is completely irrelevant here. I explained how not only did Kishimoto have zero involvement in the novel in comparison to the movie, but he edited and added new stuffs in the movie's adaptation. Toneri absorbing Naruto's chakra wasn't even in the novel. Toneri being surprised at what Hinata did to Naruto's chakra wasn't also in the novel.

 

[mal]

Naruto was almost at 0, when he got his chakra absorbed by Toneri to the point where toneri stopped drainning him but once Hinata touched him we saw Naruto's chakra aura that was not existing before it means he got a very substancial amount of chakra from Hinata.

Chakra+ chakra control= AP we have a blog for that. To begin with the fact that she can transfer that amount of chakra to Naruto means she can use it for AP we know that transfer is much harder than form jutsu also Hinata is already a perfect chakra control user because of her twin lion fists we also know she can easily use outside sources of chakra to amp her attack potency easily like we saw when she deflected Juubi. Its already on her profile im not gonna repeat the profile here again

did u read what i said? i agree w hinata have massive chakra. did u have feats where hinata control her chakra to do 5B feats? bcuz u said Chakra+Chakra control=AP not Chakra=AP. if u cant shown where did Hinata do that then that mean Shes not 5B

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

did u read what i said? i agree w hinata have massive chakra. did u have feats where hinata control her chakra to do 5B feats? bcuz u said Chakra+Chakra control=AP not Chakra=AP. if u cant shown where did Hinata do that then that mean Shes not 5B

Dude chakra control is what hyuga are best at, and the proof for Hinata is her twin lion fist that is stated to need perfect chakra control to use, also the fact that she can give 5-B amounts of chakra to Naruto and still remain well means she has at least that much.

 

[mal]

When Toneri was absorbing BSM Naruto's chakra, Naruto made a statement that Toneri was absorbing all of his chakra. A few seconds later, the Tenseigan stopped absorbing Naruto's chakra, and we see Naruto kneel on the ground, shaking, trembling and visibly weakened in base form. This means the Tenseigan had successfully absorbed all of SM Naruto + half Kurama's chakra till the point he had to kneel on the ground panting really hard

Just like i said before,Naruto can go to BSM again after concentrated everything he have to punched toneri.that show hes doesnt need All his chakra to do that.

if we count how much chakra Naruro used before Toneri absorbed,it shown naruto didnt have all 100% his chakra at that time

-dozens of Kage bunshin n Rasengan
-using everything he have to punched toneri
-use BSM again
-toneri absorbed all his chakra left

 

[Tdjwo]

Just like i said before,Naruto can go to BSM again after concentrated everything he have to punched toneri.that show hes doesnt need All his chakra to do that.

Prove Naruto used up his entire chakra to punch Toneri. That makes absolutely no sense lmfao

if we count how much chakra Naruro used before Toneri absorbed

-dozens of Kage bunshin n Rasengan
-us

What's this supposed to mean?

 

[mal]

Dude chakra control is what hyuga are best at, and the proof for Hinata is her twin lion fist that is stated to need perfect chakra control to use, also the fact that she can give 5-B amounts of chakra to Naruto and still remain well means she has at least that much.

yeah show bcuz she can control chakra doesnt mean she can control it to do 5B feats.

its fallacy to said She can control chakra,that mean She can do what Naruto did

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

yeah show bcuz she can control chakra doesnt mean she can control it to do 5B feats.

Perfect chakra control

its fallacy to said She can control chakra,that mean She can do what Naruto did

Hinata's chakra reserves drastically improved in size and potency till the point she completely replenished Bijju Sage Mode Naruto's chakra reserves after it got absorbed by Toneri. Hyuga members are able to increase their AP drastically after getting a chakra boost from a source as seen in the war arc where Hinata went from producing little power with her air palm, to deflecting the arm of the ten tails using the same jutsu but with a kyubi chakra amp. This means Hinata with Hamura's chakra possesses attack potency on the level of Bijju Sage mode Naruto since Chakra+Control/Potency=Attack Potency)

 

[mal]

Prove Naruto used up his entire chakra to punch Toneri. That makes absolutely no sense lmfao

when did i said he used All his chakra? dont put ur word on my mouth.

we saw BSM gone when Naruto charging chakra into his hand, that mean he doesnt have enough chakra to use BSM. combined w statement in novel where Naruto said he gonna punch Toneri w everything he have.

and Naruto still can tap into BSM again after that.

What's this supposed to mean?

just showing how much chakra naruto used before Toneri Absorbed his chakra

 

[Tdjwo]

when did i said he used All his chakra? dont put ur word on my mouth.

we saw BSM gone when Naruto charging chakra into his hand, that mean he doesnt have enough chakra to use BSM. combined w statement in novel where Naruto said he gonna punch Toneri w everything he have.

and Naruto still can tap into BSM again after that.

This has nothing to do with Naruto exhausting his chakra. Just because he concentrated the chakra he had into his fist doesn't mean the chakra got exhausted. He simply concentrated it.

just showing how much chakra naruto used before Toneri Absorbed his chakra

How much? Is it quantifiable? No.

 

[mal]

Perfect chakra control

yeah most ppl have perfect chakra control in Boruto now. even natural flame can have L5B potency w/o chakra control.

we saw everyone (even fodder) got all their stat increased when they recieved Kurama chakra not only Hyuuga clan. so its nothing special.

so to said "they become stronger bcuz they recieved Kurama chakra,that mean they should scaled to ppl that they gave their chakra to" are bs.

 

[mal]

How much? Is it quantifiable? No.

that mean Hinata cant be scaled to Naruto bcuz its unquantifiable how Much chakra naruto need to tap into BSM and How much chakra Toneri absorbed

demm it so hard to make u said it cant be scaled/unquantifiable.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

yeah most ppl have perfect chakra control in Boruto now. even natural flame can have L5B potency w/o chakra control.

we saw everyone (even fodder) got all their stat increased when they recieved Kurama chakra not only Hyuuga clan. so its nothing special.

so to said "they become stronger bcuz they recieved Kurama chakra,that mean they should scaled to ppl that they gave their chakra to" are bs.

Thats why they must have the proper chakra amount which Hinata has while others dont. Its not about the stats its about the power of their jutsus, their jutsus increased because their chakra increased, which means they can use all the extra chakra into their jutsus while most cant.

 

[Tdjwo]

that mean Hinata cant be scaled to Naruto bcuz its unquantifiable how Much chakra naruto need to tap into BSM and How much chakra Toneri absorbed

demm it so hard to make u said it cant be scaled/unquantifiable.

Can you read or did you not watch the movie? Toneri absorbed a whole ass BSM worth of chakra+Naruto's base chakra. Hinayta refilled everything thus making her chakra quantifiable. Stop acting ignorant and reread my entire post explaining everything properly. I'm not here to waste my time.

 

[Tdjwo]

Thats why they must have the proper chakra amount which Hinata has while others dont. Its not about the stats its about the power of their jutsus, their jutsus increased because their chakra increased, which means they can use all the extra chakra into their jutsus while most cant.

Just ignore him. He's acting ignorant on purpose.

 

[mal]

Thats why they must have the proper chakra amount which Hinata has while others dont. Its not about the stats its about the power of their jutsus, their jutsus increased because their chakra increased, which means they can use all the extra chakra into their jutsus while most cant.

that what im saying. using that logic Ten tails jinchuuriki should be scaled to 5B too bcuz 10 tails have more chakra than full kurama+combined w chakra control.

the reason they didnt was because they never do what Naruto did w Kurama

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

that what im saying. using that logic Ten tails jinchuuriki should be scaled to 5B too bcuz 10 tails have more chakra than full kurama+combined w chakra control.

the reason they didnt was because they never do what Naruto did w Kurama

And he does Madara has planet level, Obito become jinshurike with a very low amount of kurama's chakra so he doesnt scale to that.

 

[Tdjwo]

that what im saying. using that logic Ten tails jinchuuriki should be scaled to 5B too bcuz 10 tails have more chakra than full kurama+combined w chakra control.

the reason they didnt was because they never do what Naruto did w Kurama

This is false equivalence. Not only can you not prove that the potency of a ten tails jinchuriki is as good as Hinata with Hamura's chakra, but you also can't prove that Juubito(the only 6paths that isn't 5B) has as much chakra+potency as Hinata. Iirc, he add an almost insignificant amount of half kurama. Not even worth anything. And he didn't have Gyuki's entire chakra either.

 

[mal]

Can you read or did you not watch the movie? Toneri absorbed a whole ass BSM worth of chakra+Naruto's base chakra. Hinayta refilled everything thus making her chakra quantifiable. Stop acting ignorant and reread my entire post explaining everything properly. I'm not here to waste my time.

did u read what i said?

i said how much chakra did naruto have left before Toneri absorbed?

if u read or watch movie then u should know How much chakra naruto used before it got absorbed by Toneri.

maybe u should read or watch movie again if u already watched it before. maybe u should read or watch naruto too

bcuz u should know their chakra decreased everytime they used jutsu.it didnt stayed 100%. so that mean its unquantifiable how much chakra Toneri absorbed n how much chakra Hinata gave him to tap into BSM again

 

[mal]

And he does Madara has planet level, Obito become jinshurike with a very low amount of kurama's chakra so he doesnt scale to that.

read manga and u will know Juubito have more chakra than half of kurama.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

read manga and u will know Juubito have more chakra than half of kurama.

Naruto with just half of Kurama in a very unstable mode overpowered the Bijuu dama of 5 other Bijuus, more Bijuus is not more power

 

[mal]

but you also can't prove that Juubito(the only 6paths that isn't 5B) has as much chakra+potency as Hinata. Iirc, he add an almost insignificant amount of half kurama. Not even worth anything. And he didn't have Gyuki's entire chakra either.

this alone already show u Juubito have more chakra than full kurama w/o Half of Kurama entire chakra n gyuuki entire chakra . ofc Juubidara who have nearly completed ten tails are stronger bcuz it have more chakra+Control=AP than Juubito

u know how much chakra half of kurama have compared to Naruto normal chakra? Half of kurama is 96x times more chakra compared to naruto

now i know u didnt read manga bcuz u said full kurama > incomplete 10 tails

This is false equivalence. Not only can you not prove that the potency of a ten tails jinchuriki is as good as Hinata with Hamura's chakra,

u are the one who need new proof Hinata w Hamura chakra has Chakra reserve+Control/Potency equal to Naruto w Full Kurama+SM chakra+control/potency bcuz u just said Hinata replenished unquantifiable amount of Naruto Chakra and Every ninja can control their chakra mean Hinata AP=Naruto AP are false equivalance

 

[mal]

Naruto with just half of Kurama in a very unstable mode overpowered the Bijuu dama of 5 other Bijuus, more Bijuus is not more power

idk why u bring that.have nothing to do w anything i said

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

idk why u bring that.have nothing to do w anything i said

Kurama was incomplete the whole time, NAruto with just a half kurama and small parts of the rest of the bijuu was already much supeior to juubito because its not half kurama that is scaled to planet its sage mode and half kurama chakra

 

[Nierre]

Ok I'm (sorta) free, so let's get on with this. I'm quickly losing interest over this so this will likely be my final say on this. Staff have already given their votes and it doesn't really seem to look like you convinced them but here's my promised retort:

In The Last: Naruto The Movie's dub and sub, Hinata used the word "Hamura's bloodline" and "Hamura's chakra" at two different times, implying that they both meant two different things, which is supported by the fact that she actually performed different things with the words she described them.
When she used the word "Hamura's bloodline," she was explaining to Naruto how not just anyone could touch the Tenseigan orb because it had a curse sealed on it. Only someone with Hamura's bloodline could touch it.
On the other hand, when she used the word "Hamura's chakra," she had just finished replenishing Naruto's chakra, which surprised Toneri, which in turn made him ask her how and why she was able to do that, then she replied, It's because...Hamura's chakra flows within me too."
If you paid close attention to the movie, you would realize that Toneri knew Hinata was immune to the Tenseigan because she had the bloodline limit to destroy the Tenseigan without getting cursed by the jutsu which is why he had his puppet guards keep a close watch on her so that she wouldn't make any move. But what Toneri didn't know was that Hinata had met Hamura, who bestowed his chakra onto her. That is why he was surprised and baffled as to how and why Hinata was able to refill Naruto's chakra reserves. Toneri wasn't surprised that Hinata could stop the Tenseigan from extracting Naruto's chakra reserves. He already knew she could do that when the Tenseigan energy vessel got destroyed. Instead, Toneri was surprised that Hinata somehow had enough chakra to replenish Naruto's reserves, which he never knew she could do.
What does this imply?
This implies that her failure to destroy the Tenseigan by herself at that moment she claimed she had the bloodline limit to touch the Tenseigan doesn't downscale her later feat of replenishing Naruto's entire reserves when she stated she had the chakra of Hamura. She used both words at two different times, for two different purposes.
This also implies that she does indeed have the bloodline limit of Hamura as a Hyuga clan member, while at the same time, she obtained the chakra of Hamura during her encounter with Hamura.
Now that we've got that out of the way let's move to the next question.

The distinguishment doesn't really matter here, because Hamura explicitly gave Hinata HIS CHAKRA so that she can destroy his Tenseigan. You're making a distinguishment that wasn't even implied in the movie. Hamura wouldn't have given Hinata his chakra if it wasn't for destroying the Tenseigan, which then brings up the first and biggest Anti-Feat: Hinata wasn't strong enough to destroy the Tenseigan. She needed the help of Base Naruto to destroy the Tenseigan, so she clearly can't scale to BSM Naruto if she isn't even stronger than Base Naruto.

Like I said your distinguishment still wasn't made apparent in the movie because Hamura wouldn't have given her his chakra if she already had the ability to destroy the Tenseigan because of her "bloodline". He didn't give her his chakra to "replenish Naruto's chakra reserves" (which is something he wouldn't have known anyway since that happened later in the movie), but instead because she was the Byakugan Princess, and he chose her to fulfill her role in destroying his Tenseigan.

Was Naruto's chakra really low enough for us to consider Hinata replenishing him as something significant?

When Toneri was absorbing BSM Naruto's chakra, Naruto made a statement that Toneri was absorbing all of his chakra. A few seconds later, the Tenseigan stopped absorbing Naruto's chakra, and we see Naruto kneel on the ground, shaking, trembling and visibly weakened in base form. This means the Tenseigan had successfully absorbed all of SM Naruto + half Kurama's chakra till the point he had to kneel on the ground panting really hard. This behaviour is something that Naruto had done before in the war arc. In the war arc, he started panting hard which Madara noticed and claimed that he had reached his limit because Naruto had expended all his chakra reserves due to him carrying the entire shinobi alliance with his kyuubi chakra. The way Naruto knelt and acted was completely identical to how Naruto acted in The Last. To better support my argument, Sakura specifically stated that it was time for Naruto to recover as he still stayed in that same position, visibly exhausted as everyone rallied round to protect Naruto has he had run out of chakra. Moments later, we see Kurama amassing chakra in that position where he joins his palm together which indicates that Kurama was indeed empty on chakra thus needing quite some time to build more chakra as Minato takes over in place of Naruto. And we know it takes quite some time for Kurama to mould chakra for Naruto to re-enter his KCM mode which is why Yang Kurama asked Yin Kurama to lend him some chakra as it was taking too long for him to fully replenish Naruto on time.
All these proves that Naruto in The Last was completely out of chakra both in his base form, and with Kurama's chakra supply based on similar incidents that happened in the war arc. He acted even worse in The last. He acted more exhausted in base form than he did in the war arc. So for Hinata to completely replenish him and take him back to Bijuu Sage Mode(not just KCM2), it shows how significant her chakra supply was to Naruto.

This still doesn't answer the blatant Anti Feat that we saw prior with Hinata. I'm also a bit unconvinced about the whole Hinata replenishing Naruto's chakra vs Hinata connecting her chakra to his to protect Naruto from the absorption ability Toneri's Tenseigan has

But she does have the AP and durability (2) of BSM Naruto.

Toneri used a wind attack to blow them away. I don't think you're trying to say that even Sai scales to Toneri for this reason right? But also.. why would Toneri try to actively hurt them when Hinata is there? He doesn't want to kill her so naturally he didn't go all out and all he did was blow them away.


The rest of your argument acts as if the whole Tenseigan issue is resolved, but the very fact that Hamura amp Hinata < BASE Naruto (Rasengan) is a massive anti feat against your implication that Hamura amp Hinata ~ BSM Naruto


I originally agreed with your CRT BACK when you made it like a year or so ago, but taking another look at the movie I most definitely disagree. I'm not going to continue this anymore, because it seems to me that you're ignoring this very point. This is just going back and forth anyway, we already have 2 staff that agree with the downgrade and it's been well over the grace period since then, and even since your own counter, so I'll change her AP back to Unknown since that's what was agreed upon from the Staff.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Ok I'm (sorta) free, so let's get on with this. I'm quickly losing interest over this so this will likely be my final say on this. Staff have already given their votes and it doesn't really seem to look like you convinced them but here's my promised retort:

The distinguishment doesn't really matter here, because Hamura explicitly gave Hinata HIS CHAKRA so that she can destroy his Tenseigan. You're making a distinguishment that wasn't even implied in the movie. Hamura wouldn't have given Hinata his chakra if it wasn't for destroying the Tenseigan, which then brings up the first and biggest Anti-Feat: Hinata wasn't strong enough to destroy the Tenseigan. She needed the help of Base Naruto to destroy the Tenseigan, so she clearly can't scale to BSM Naruto if she isn't even stronger than Base Naruto.

Big mistake there, it cannot be an anti feat because we dotn really know how resistent the teseigan was, supposedly it was going to survive the destruction of earth and moon which is at least large planet feat. She needed help from Naruto but saying she is weaker than base Naruto is absurd, he didnt destroyed the teseigan with his rasengan alone they only destroyed it using a fusion between the 2 jutsu one of which is Hinata's strongest jutsu and Naruto's rasengan.

Toneri used a wind attack to blow them away. I don't think you're trying to say that even Sai scales to Toneri for this reason right? But also.. why would Toneri try to actively hurt them when Hinata is there? He doesn't want to kill her so naturally he didn't go all out and all he did was blow them away.

That was already covered before in another thread only Hinata and Naruto were directly hit so much they were the only ones that were slamed on the moon's surface while the rest were just slightly hit and where thrown away, so no it wouldnt scale to Sai or Sakura.