Downgraded 5-B Hyuga Hinata

[Sawada010]

Chakra amount+Potency=AP

If Chakra is as high as Ap or strength, then tailed beasts wouldn't be trampled by Akatsuki or Madara, so stop arguing and accept the truth.

 

[Amost6x]

Chakra amount+Potency=AP

She just has a large amount of chakra. Doesn't have the power to push her Ap to 5-B at all.

 

[Sawada010]

You know what's funny? You have consistently used a weakened version of Hinata to downscale her tier? Why don't you talk about the Hinata that replenished Naruto instead of focusing on the Hinata that just got her body tampered with by the green orbs?

How is it different since the Hinata Version recharged Naruto didn't show Ap to himself, which was weaker than when attacking Tenseigan? Doesn't always mean strong. You look funny

 

[Nierre]

She did both. She refilled his chakra and halted Toneri's ability to absorb chakra. Naruto was weakened in base after Toneri extracted his chakra. BUt once Hinata transferred her chakra to Naruto, he jumped straight back to BSM. If she had only stopped Toneri's absorption without replenishing Naruto, it would have taken quite some time for Naruto to jump back into Bijuu Sage Mode.

Ok, I see what you're saying.

How do we know that it would've taken a long time for Naruto to jump back into BSM?

The last time Toneri took Naruto's chakra, the orb was actually shot inside of him and absorbed chakra from the inside and rendered him unconscious seconds after. Whereas this time around it's siphoning his chakra from the outside, and he's not unconscious this time, so I'd think the "siphoning rate" (if that makes sense) is demonstrably different when it's from the outside compared to the inside.

Do we have any other feats for Hinata being this high in AP? To test consistency. Because this is a big claim imo, especially in an arguable situation like this imo

 

[Stryker861]

If Chakra is as high as Ap or strength, then tailed beasts wouldn't be trampled by Akatsuki or Madara, so stop arguing and accept the truth.

Telling someone to"stop arguing and accept the truth" is not gonna work bud

 

[Sawada010]

Telling someone to"stop arguing and accept the truth" is not gonna work bud

True, because if people do not accept It was trapped like that.

 

[Tdjwo]

If Chakra is as high as Ap or strength, then tailed beasts wouldn't be trampled by Akatsuki or Madara, so stop arguing and accept the truth.

My guy, you don't always have to have more chakra for you to defeat someone with more chakra. This doesn't mean you still can't defeat them as long as you have the hax to beat it. For example, Hidan can't defeat any tailed beast using raw power alone. But once he activates his death curse jutsu, he can take down almost any jinchurikki. Madara is a chakra beast. He has the chakra and hax(mangekyo sharingan) to take down a tailed beast.

 

[Tdjwo]

She just has a large amount of chakra. Doesn't have the power to push her Ap to 5-B at all.

That's baseless. In the war arc, her regular air palm that could only take out some zetsus and wooden spikes became strong enough to blast away the Juubi arm just by using Kurama's chakra. And the ink where it's explained Chakra+Potency=AP is still there. You have to change the general rule for you to dismiss this feat.

 

[Tdjwo]

How is it different since the Hinata Version recharged Naruto didn't show Ap to himself, which was weaker than when attacking Tenseigan? Doesn't always mean strong. You look funny

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:UchihaSlayer96/The_Mechanics_of_Chakra_Enhancement

 

[Stryker861]

That's baseless. In the war arc, her regular air palm that could only take out some zetsus and wooden spikes became strong enough to blast away the Juubi arm just by using Kurama's chakra. And the ink where it's explained Chakra+Potency=AP is still there. You have to change the general rule for you to dismiss this feat.

This
And I dont think we need to explain why HAMURA'S chakra is far more potent than a 1 tailed cloak

 

[Sawada010]

Having said that, how does it help Hinata to have Hax and be able to Up Ap to Low5-B or 5-B levels?

 

[Sawada010]

More Chakras ≠ More Powerful

This
And I dont think we need to explain why HAMURA'S chakra is far more potent than a 1 tailed cloak

More Chakras ≠ More Powerful

 

[Tdjwo]

Ok, I see what you're saying.

How do we know that it would've taken a long time for Naruto to jump back into BSM?

Because every time Naruto runs out of Kurama's chakra, he always needs to wait for quite a while before he can recharge back into his modes. In the arc, he had to rest a little after using KCM while everyone fought to protect him.

The last time Toneri took Naruto's chakra, the orb was actually shot inside of him and absorbed chakra from the inside and rendered him unconscious seconds after. Whereas this time around it's siphoning his chakra from the outside, and he's not unconscious this time, so I'd think the "siphoning rate" (if that makes sense) is demonstrably different when it's from the outside compared to the inside.

Sure, the siphoning rate is different but the result is the same. Naruto runs out of chakra/energy to keep the modes up. The only difference is that he's still conscious(barely) in one but unconscious in the other.

Do we have any other feats for Hinata being this high in AP? To test consistency. Because this is a big claim imo, especially in an arguable situation like this imo

You could take her durability feat of tanking Toneri's silver wheel incarnation but that's already accepted that she didn't tank the full yield of the attack cuz Naruto tanked part of it. But still, a regular person can't tank an attack from Toneri. Other than that, she doesn't show any BSM-level feat. Only base Naruto level feats. This also means she has no antifeats since that's the only feat.

 

[Tdjwo]

More Chakras ≠ More Powerful

More Chakras ≠ More Powerful

Reword the statement. More Chakra+Potency=More AP.

 

[Stryker861]

Ok, I see what you're saying.

How do we know that it would've taken a long time for Naruto to jump back into BSM?

The last time Toneri took Naruto's chakra, the orb was actually shot inside of him and absorbed chakra from the inside and rendered him unconscious seconds after. Whereas this time around it's siphoning his chakra from the outside, and he's not unconscious this time, so I'd think the "siphoning rate" (if that makes sense) is demonstrably different when it's from the outside compared to the inside.

Do we have any other feats for Hinata being this high in AP? To test consistency. Because this is a big claim imo, especially in an arguable situation like this imo

From what it looked like naruto was having trouble even standing up so i think it makes sense for him to have been completely drained

 

[Sawada010]

Reword the statement. More Chakra+Potency=More AP.

Very Chakra but it's about extracting the user's Chakra too, not that much Chakra is strong, otherwise Karin >>> Sasuke gone by your crazy logic.

 

[Tdjwo]

Very Chakra but it's about extracting the user's Chakra too, not that much Chakra is strong, otherwise Karin >>> Sasuke gone by your crazy logic.

MS Sasuke has comparable chakra reservesalbeit inferior a little but edges out with far more potency than Karin, solidifying chakra+potency=AP.

 

[Amost6x]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:UchihaSlayer96/The_Mechanics_of_Chakra_Enhancement

That was because the quality of the Kurama chakra was so high that they could even make that level of Ap if they only got a fraction of it. But Hinata's quality is another matter.

 

[Nierre]

Because every time Naruto runs out of Kurama's chakra, he always needs to wait for quite a while before he can recharge back into his modes. In the arc, he had to rest a little after using KCM while everyone fought to protect him.

Sure, the siphoning rate is different but the result is the same. Naruto runs out of chakra/energy to keep the modes up. The only difference is that he's still conscious in one but unconscious in the other.

Fair enough. I think I concede on this point.

You could take her durability feat of tanking Toneri's silver wheel incarnation but that's already accepted that she didn't tank the full yield of the attack cuz Naruto tanked part of it. But still, a regular person can't tank an attack from Toneri.

The wind attack he used in base? Or are you referring to the one he used in his Chakra Mode?

Other than that, she doesn't show any BSM-level feat. Only base Naruto level feats. This also means she has no antifeats since that's the only feat.

What are her Base Naruto feats? (AP, Dura)

 

[Tdjwo]

Very Chakra but it's about extracting the user's Chakra too, not that much Chakra is strong, otherwise Karin >>> Sasuke gone by your crazy logic.

MS Sasuke has comparable chakra reservesalbeit inferior a little but edges out with far more potency than Karin, solidifying chakra+potency=AP.

Have you ever wondered why kid Naruto wasn't as powerful as Kakashi despite having more chakra? That's because he barely had any chakra control or potency so it was basically useless against a more experienced and polished shinobi like Kakashi. But once Naruto perfect his chakra control, his potency became way better thus improving his AP. It's as simple as that. This is specifically referenced in the chakra+potency=AP link.

 

[Tdjwo]

That was because the quality of the Kurama chakra was so high that they could even make that level of Ap if they only got a fraction of it. But Hinata's quality is another matter.

Prove Hinata with Hamura's quality is lower. She literally refilled BSM Naruto's chakra

 

[Nierre]

Im gonna stop for now cause I've got some Soul Eater Revisions I gotta get to but I'll be in and out of this thread

 

[Tdjwo]

Fair enough. I think I concede on this point.

The wind attack he used in base? Or are you referring to the one he used in his Chakra Mode?

No. This one

What are her Base Naruto feats? (AP, Dura)

Reacting to and countering Toneri's head puppet that could keep up with an enraged base Naruto. It's in her speed section

At least Relativistic (Without using her Byakugan or any of her abilities, Hinata was capable of reacting to, blitzing and manhandling Toneri's "Head Puppet" who was able to easily react to, and keep up with an enraged "The Last Base Naruto" in combat and even outsped him at some point)

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

she didnt restore his chakra, she just stopped it from being extracted.

the tenseigan has a curse on it that extracts chakra from anyone who isnt from hamura''s bloodline. later on after Toneri is initially defeated he recreates the tenseigan using all the byakugan again , which extracts the chakra from naruto, however Hinata intervenes by sharing her chakra with naruto.

its the same principle that Naruto does with minato in the war arc where he adds his senjutsu to his rasengan so that they can harm Obito.

there's nothing to suggest Hinata refueled all of Naruto's chakra from zero.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

the argument that Hinata must have refueled him because it would have taken a while for him to go back into BSM is absurd, its head canon.

naruto was pinned and in base having his chakra absorbed for hours and the moment he was free he instantly entered six paths sage mode against Momoshiki.
unless theres a statement that all of his chakra was absorbed then theres nothing to assume other than what was shown.

 

[Nierre]

naruto was pinned and in base having his chakra absorbed for hours and the moment he was free he instantly entered six paths sage mode against Momoshiki.

I KNEW there was another example somewhere in Boruto, I was going to take time and look for it too, but you found it.

 

[Tdjwo]

she didnt restore his chakra, she just stopped it from being extracted.

That narratively makes no sense. Like I explained to Nierre earlier, if she only stopped Toneri from absorbing Naruto's chakra, Naruto would still have needed extra time to replenish his BSM chakra. Naruto stated all of his his chakra was being sucked out

and just right after this scene, you can see Naruto trembling and shaking in base for a few seconds before Hinata intervened implying that almost all of his chakra was successfully siphoned out of him

the tenseigan has a curse on it that extracts chakra from anyone who isnt from hamura''s bloodline. later on after Toneri is initially defeated he recreates the tenseigan using all the byakugan again , which extracts the chakra from naruto, however Hinata intervenes by sharing her chakra with naruto.

Everything you said here is right and I know that except from the fact that Hinata actually shared her chakra with Naruto to replenish his reserves as well as protecting him from absorption.

its the same principle that Naruto does with minato in the war arc where he adds his senjutsu to his rasengan so that they can harm Obito.

It's not the same. Naruto added senjutsu to the rasengan to damage Obito. Hinata on the other hand added more chakra to replenish Naruto's lost reserves and protecting him from absorption at the same time.

there's nothing to suggest Hinata refueled all of Naruto's chakra from zero.

Naruto was literally struggling to keep himself up after Toneri extracted his chakra. Hinata, just by touching Naruto made him enter Bijuu sage mode under seconds. There's only one reason for that.

 

[Tdjwo]

naruto was pinned and in base having his chakra absorbed for hours and the moment he was free he instantly entered six paths sage mode against Momoshiki.

Momoshiki simply had a wacky absorption speed. Unless you can prove that Toneri and Momoshiki absorbed Naruto's chakra at the same speed. Moreover, Naruto only had half kurama inside him against Toneri thus the speed would have been different when it came to siphoning chakra.

unless theres a statement that all of his chakra was absorbed then theres nothing to assume other than what was shown.

Naruto explicitly stated that all of his chakra was being sucked out just moments before Toneri completely did that

 

[Stryker861]

the argument that Hinata must have refueled him because it would have taken a while for him to go back into BSM is absurd, its head canon.

naruto was pinned and in base having his chakra absorbed for hours and the moment he was free he instantly entered six paths sage mode against Momoshiki.
unless theres a statement that all of his chakra was absorbed then theres nothing to assume other than what was shown.

Momoshiki had only taken half of narutos chakra at that point so of course he still would have a lot left. I cant remember if this was in the manga or anime but it was also stated that naruto was not making it easy for momoshiki and was implied to have been resisting the chakra absorption speed. The first time toneri took his chakra it took sakura at least a few hours iirc to restore it back. The second time toneri abrorbs his chakra it completly strips him of bsm and is struggling to stand up. The fact that he bassically fell to his knees should show that he was extremly low by that point. And then hinata intervenes by giving him chakra and hes completly fine after that.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Another attempt to downgrade? The last one ended pretty bad.
Now about this one its nonsense, we literally have an entire page about how chakra+control=AP
Agreed we were shown Toneri absorbing all of Naruto's base chakra in seconds and despite not being kurama sized its still massive while Sasuke using Rinnegan was barely able to take a few drops of Naruto during their fight in end valley, you can also take Urashiki as example although im not sure if you take it as cannon.
Rinnegan is just slow we saw that multiple times even Nagato absorbing Naruto and so on.
Toneri just seems to have a much more powerful absorbtion.

 

[Trihexa102]

the argument that Hinata must have refueled him because it would have taken a while for him to go back into BSM is absurd, its head canon.

naruto was pinned and in base having his chakra absorbed for hours and the moment he was free he instantly entered six paths sage mode against Momoshiki.
unless theres a statement that all of his chakra was absorbed then theres nothing to assume other than what was shown.

true but Tdjwo argument does sound logical , naruto against momo was just at half tank , but from the scans am seeing here portrays naruto at almost empty tank.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

That narratively makes no sense. Like I explained to Nierre earlier, if she only stopped Toneri from absorbing Naruto's chakra, Naruto would still have needed extra time to replenish his BSM chakra. Naruto stated all of his his chakra was being sucked out

read the subtitle again, the key word is being as in its in the process of being sucked out not that it all of my chakra has been sucked out.

and just right after this scene, you can see Naruto trembling and shaking in base for a few seconds before Hinata intervened implying that almost all of his chakra was successfully siphoned out of him

having your chakra drained tires you out, you dont need to have your chakra reach 0 to feel the effects. given the fact that its happening constantly means theres no time to "recharge"

 

[Trihexa102]

Momoshiki had only taken half of narutos chakra at that point so of course he still would have a lot left. I cant remember if this was in the manga or anime but it was also stated that naruto was not making it easy for momoshiki and was implied to have been resisting the chakra absorption speed. The first time toneri took his chakra it took sakura at least a few hours iirc to restore it back. The second time toneri abrorbs his chakra it completly strips him of bsm and is struggling to stand up. The fact that he bassically fell to his knees should show that he was extremly low by that point. And then hinata intervenes by giving him chakra and hes completly fine after that.

yea sounds accurate , I disagree with thread unless there is better proof to refute it.

 

[Tdjwo]

read the subtitle again, the key word is being as in its in the process of being sucked out not that it all of my chakra has been sucked out.

Ok? And what happened moments later? TOneri successfully absorbed all his chakra.

having your chakra drained tires you out, you dont need to have your chakra reach 0 to feel the effects. given the fact that its happening constantly means theres no time to "recharge"

Nobody in the Narutoverse actually gets their chakra completely drained out of them till it becomes 0. You would die if that were the case. I think only Kakashi ever died of complete chakra exhaustion against Pain. But we know that your chakra is still tremendously depleted if you were in the state Naruto was in that situation. Hinata recharged Naruto from a very exhausted base form, back into his BSM mode without much effort. If this doesn't imply that she has a similar level of reserves, then I don't know what to tell you. Everybody that refills someone's chakra reserve in the Narutoverse never did that from 0. They refilled it from a certain point where it would seem logical to conclude that they refilled the entire chakra reserves.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

also there's a massive issue that these arguments have, they entirely rooted in circular reasoning

The Reason why you argue that Toneri absorbed all of his chakra is because Naruto looks Fatigued

The reason why you argue that naruto being fatigued against momoshiki vs Toneri is different is that momoshiki didnt absorb all of his chakra like Toneri did, the issue that the premise of this argument is whats in quesiton, which means the argument goes back to the start.

Toneri must have extracted all of naruto's chakra because his fatigued > counter point> because Naruto had all his chakra absorbed unlike against momoshiki> return to point 1.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Ok? And what happened moments later? TOneri successfully absorbed all his chakra.

no thats whats in contention you cannot use an issue as a solution.

Nobody in the Narutoverse actually gets their chakra completely drained out of them till it becomes 0. You would die if that were the case.

you cant have it both ways either Naruto had all of his chakra drained or he didnt.

. Hinata recharged Naruto from a very exhausted base form, back into his BSM mode without much effort. If this doesn't imply that she has a similar level of reserves, then I don't know what to tell you

Because she didnt, once again your not addressing my argument, your just deflecting with the premise, its terrible circular reasoning

 

[Stryker861]

also there's a massive issue that these arguments have, they entirely rooted in circular reasoning

The Reason why you argue that Toneri absorbed all of his chakra is because Naruto looks Fatigued

The reason why you argue that naruto being fatigued against momoshiki vs Toneri is different is that momoshiki didnt absorb all of his chakra like Toneri did, the issue that the premise of this argument is whats in quesiton, which means the argument goes back to the start.

Toneri must have extracted all of naruto's chakra because his fatigued > counter point> because Naruto had all his chakra absorbed unlike against momoshiki> return to point 1.

Nobody is saying that it reached ABSOLUTE 0. We are saying that he lost such a massive amount to the point where he cant stand straight and his super saiyan form gets ripped right off in half a second

 

[Tdjwo]

also there's a massive issue that these arguments have, they entirely rooted in circular reasoning

The Reason why you argue that Toneri absorbed all of his chakra is because Naruto looks Fatigued

The reason why you argue that naruto being fatigued against momoshiki vs Toneri is different is that momoshiki didnt absorb all of his chakra like Toneri did, the issue that the premise of this argument is whats in quesiton, which means the argument goes back to the start.

Toneri must have extracted all of naruto's chakra because his fatigued > counter point> because Naruto had all his chakra absorbed unlike against momoshiki> return to point 1.

This is not circular reasoning. You are the one trying to make it circular by involving Momoshiki who has a different absorbing method and had to absorb more chakra than Toneri did.
Look at it this way

Toneri absorbed all of Naruto's chakra till the point that Naruto got yanked out of his BSM mode and couldn't even stand up. Naruto explicitly also stated that Toneri was absorbing all of his chakra. Toneri did all these under a few moments.

Momoshiki absorbed half of Kurama's chakra and under this time, Naruto was able to fight back the absorption, and he was even strong enough to give a whole ass speech to Momoshiki telling him how a shinobi doesn't give up. All these means Momoshiki's absorption was either not fast enough to absorb all of Naruto's chakra, or Momoshiki had to absorb way more chakra than Toneri did thus needing more time.

 

[Tdjwo]

no thats whats in contention you cannot use an issue as a solution.

What ? Let's use an example. If I claim I'm going to pour all of my water out of a bottle and I'm in the process of doing so, after a few seconds, there's no water coming out of the bottle anymore, what does that mean? Doesn't that mean I successfully emptied out the water in the bottle? It's the same thing here. Naruto stated Toneri was absorbing all of his chakra and moments later, we see Toneri laughing hysterically after ending the absorption. Doesn't that mean Toneri already successfully finished absorbing the chakra like Naruto claimed? You think Toneri suddenly stopped absorbing for no reason?

you cant have it both ways either Naruto had all of his chakra drained or he didnt.

I'm simply using logic and what has been consistently shown in the entire series. No one has ever replenished anybody from scratch zero. It's like saying Naruto never replenished the shinobi alliance chakra because he didn't give them cakra from 0.

Because she didnt, once again your not addressing my argument, your just deflecting with the premise, its terrible circular reasoning

I addressed every single point you made but you are stuck with bringing up the same points over again.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Agreed most Rinnegan users or chakra absorbing techniques in Naruto involve direct contact or very very close proximity, toneri's Jutsu was absorbing Naruto's chakra and even sun's power that was probably hundreds of thousands of kilometers away.
We have seen Naruto fight even in base mode heck we saw Naruto keep his Bijuu mode even when his soul was being sucked out of his body, if Naruto was kneeling on the floor he was too exhausted to use his remaining chakra to keep fighting.