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Downgrade Infinite speed Arata

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That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking you to proof that every black panels mean time stop, even black panels without the context of time stop.
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
First, it was evident here that Liese was using her Last Crest, where she instantly slowed down time as slowly as possible. And the panel there is instantly black, proving that Time Slow is active.



After that, here Liese proved that she immediately used the Time Stop technique on Arata Kasuga, and the Panel remained black.



And, here Liese used her Last Crest again, which made the place slow down until it stopped. And also, it was told that it was a Time Stop if using the Element Demon Lord.



However, it all proves that it is a Time Stop. Because there are some feats above that start from slow to stop.


And also here it is evident that the Area being timestopped makes the panel black.
Click to expand...
 
OnsokunoSonic said:
Please prove that there's no way that this black panel isn't a dramatic effect, show me the whole manga.
Click to expand...
You can't prove such a thing since no author gonna say “Black panels means time-stop”, but if the whole manga is using this logic, then it refers to that lol.
 
Dread said:
You can't prove such a thing since no author gonna say “Black panels means time-stop”, but if the whole manga is using this logic, then it refers to that lol.
Click to expand...
And I'm asking if the whole manga use black panels to indicate time stop (even those without context of time stop). I'm asking for the OP to show us every black panel on the manga. That's what I'm asking.

@Rendynoc0unter

Is that all of the black panels in the manga?
 
OnsokunoSonic said:
And I'm asking if the whole manga use black panels to indicate time stop (even those without context of time stop). I'm asking for the OP to show us every black panel on the manga. That's what I'm asking.

@Rendynoc0unter

Is that all of the black panels in the manga?
Click to expand...
Wow, you have requested a whole job without paying him LMFAO. He is not forced, tho? He only needs to prove if it is not.
And he pretty much proved in other CRT, one click, and you can see the post, no need to derail here.
 
Besides, he already told the chapter numbers, you can look for yourself Chapter 66-67
 
He is not forced, tho?

No one is forcing him.

And he pretty much proved in other CRT

Prove that black panels always means time stop?

Besides, he already told the chapter numbers, you can look for yourself Chapter 66-67

Showing a couple of chapters doesn't help proof that every black panels across the manga always means time stop though.
 
OnsokunoSonic said:
Besides, he already told the chapter numbers, you can look for yourself Chapter 66-67

Showing a couple of chapters doesn't help proof that every black panels across the manga always means time stop though.
Click to expand...
HUH? “Couple”, he showed all of them, you did not even bother checking them out. This is your stuff.
Lmfao, how is this an argument? He explained everything in that CRT about this part, you did not even bother checking it out. Your issue
 
I have explained it above

Is that all the existing black panels on the verse?

HUH? “Couple”, he showed all of them, you did not even bother checking them out.

I did tho? A couple means chapter 66-67, And what I'm looking for is every black panels not a couple from a specific chapters.

Lmfao, how is this an argument? He explained everything in that CRT about this part, you did not even bother checking it out. Your issue

What Issue.
 
You misunderstand it, the cause was from chapters 66-67. This is all chapters that have black panel (where something is happening there and relevant to our thread)
 
You misunderstand it, the cause was from chapters 66-67. This is all chapters that have black panel (where something is happening there and relevant to our thread)

The thing is, every black panel existing in the manga is relevant to this thread since the infinite speed is based on a black panel that wasn't explained further by the narrative. Therefore we have to examine every black panels on the manga to conclude which one is more appropriate, when we got statement like this after Arata did the "infinite speed feat".
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
Yes, it does not seem to be a reaction, as the context is that he pursued the attack and dodged.
Click to expand...
Rendynoc0unter said:
Travel speed to.

If we're talking about reaction speed, that doesn't prove reaction speed at all, because he's chasing his attack, so that's not reaction speed.
Click to expand...
Rendynoc0unter said:
For example, let's say that character A shoots at character B with a gun and character B dodges. That is reaction speed. Keep in mind, sometimes a person aim dodges and it is not as good of a feat.
Source : Speed | Wiki VSB
Click to expand...
Rendynoc0unter said:
That would be moving at travel speed, not movement, right?.

lol
Click to expand...
 
move·ment
an act of changing physical location or position or of having this changed.
OnsokunoSonic said:
The series said Arata's movement isn't instantaneous, and the series seem to not differentiate such a thing as reaction speed and combat speed. Which mean the series is referring to all of Arata's movement, and said it's not instantaneous.

You cannot combine vs wiki into the series's narrative, it's wrong.
Click to expand...
Anyways I'm a bit tired, and probably won't be able to respond fast sooner or later (due to various reasons).
 
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Fixxed said:
I think you have a misinterpretation of the crt I made. What I mean by the black panel that I posted is that Lucifer gaze is really fast, so it makes the surroundings very slow. but not to the point of making time stop because of its speed.
Click to expand...
Which will make Lucifer Gaze fall into time manipulation while using Superbia Archive?. No, all time hax in the verse only refers to Acedia Archive users who are shown to be capable of time hax, while Deus there only uses Superbia Archive.

If by using the logic of your interpretation, this means that Deus Trinity will get the Acedia Archive and that will be very contradictory to what is stated in the manga which only shows that Deus is said to have only 3 Archives (Superbia, Gula and Avaritia). Furthermore, there is no concrete evidence that other Archives can have or use the same abilities as Acedia Archive. (Time hax), even for Deus himself.

Your assumption about time slow is a bit vague from what I've seen, there's even no evidence to back up your claim that the black panel there refers to time slow. You only took the example of the black panel time slow scene from Liese who at that time used one of the advantages she had as an Acedia Archive user (she used the last crest or something iirc lol) which so far only Liese could do. Even the two of them are clearly different Archive and Theme.

Give me clear evidence to support your claim that Deus there can do time slow using only Superbia Archive, or evidence that he himself can clearly use Acedia Archive. Just because Deus is superior to Liese, that doesn't mean he validly gets to have the same abilities as her and can do the same things as her.
 
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Because DDM said it was a Time Stop ability. So here I will explain that it is not a Time Stop Ability.

Time Manipulation itself can only be used by Archive Acedia, which is shown by Liese herself who has Archive Acedia, even when Arata gets Liese's Archive, she can immediately use the Time Stop Ability.

In the Trinity Seven wiki, we see that Liese is an Archive Acedia user, and I still have proof that she is.

Here we can see Liese, who is an Acedia user, manipulating time.

Even when Arata had accepted Liese's Archive

Arata can also do things like stopping time as well.

In this way, it has been proven that only Acedia Archives can use Time Manipulation.

Even Deus only has 3 Archives, namely Superbia, Sugar and Avarita. In addition, Deus is said to be able to activate only one Archive at the moment, Superbia. In this way, it is not a Time Manipulation.

As such, this has proven that Deus Trinity did not have a ability Time Stop, as it did not have an Acedia Archive at the time.


--------


In this part, I said that it is a Time Stop Ability if using Element Magic King.

In the past, Liese was a Magic King Candidate because she had possessed the Magic King Element.

And Liese was also able to activate her Last Crest. In this case, the time around him immediately changed very slowly.

After that, he was able to make Last Crest become his Time Stop. That signaled that at that moment he had controlled his Last Crest using Element Magic King.

And, here when Arata has Liese's Acedia Archive, he can immediately use his Time Stop ability easily. Ahh yes, maybe many people don't know, Arata is a Magic King.

Therefore, this really proved that if he used Element Magic King, he could instantly stop time perfectly.

With this, the conclusion is :
  • Lucifer Gaze is not a Time Stop ability.
  • The scene that Fixxed provides is the Time Stop ability, if using Element Magic King.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
If I am reading correctly, this does seem more like a time stop ability than it does infinite speed. So this looks fine.
Click to expand...
Please, look at this
Rendynoc0unter said:
Because DDM said it was a Time Stop ability. So here I will explain that it is not a Time Stop Ability.

Time Manipulation itself can only be used by Archive Acedia, which is shown by Liese herself who has Archive Acedia, even when Arata gets Liese's Archive, she can immediately use the Time Stop Ability.

In the Trinity Seven wiki, we see that Liese is an Archive Acedia user, and I still have proof that she is.

Here we can see Liese, who is an Acedia user, manipulating time.

Even when Arata had accepted Liese's Archive

Arata can also do things like stopping time as well.

In this way, it has been proven that only Acedia Archives can use Time Manipulation.

Even Deus only has 3 Archives, namely Superbia, Sugar and Avarita. In addition, Deus is said to be able to activate only one Archive at the moment, Superbia. In this way, it is not a Time Manipulation.

As such, this has proven that Deus Trinity did not have a ability Time Stop, as it did not have an Acedia Archive at the time.
Click to expand...
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
If I am reading correctly, this does seem more like a time stop ability than it does infinite speed. So this looks fine.
Click to expand...
So what are the conclusions here so far. Is Medeus' assessment fine to apply?
 
Thank you for helping out, Medeus.
 
From the look of it it doesn't look like a time stop but just an odd effects that usually appeared in a slow motion events. You will usually see this on, when someone or the MC was about to be hit or killed by something, like example the infamous car aka "truck kun" in some anime when it happens the background will suddenly disappeared and the time will became slower. Anyway the OP already pointed out that black background doesn't always mean time stop right? so what are you guys still arguing about...
 
Didn't Medeus agree with what the OP suggested here?
 
Oh yeah, now I do remember that thread and recall some other scans within the same work mentioning they are incapable of stopping time and implied that they simply perceived time as stopping rather than anyone actually causing it to stopping time. And the original scan back then said she "Pretended to stop time but is simply moving so fast time is perceived as frozen."

But I kind of got more conflicted and the reason now sounds more like Deus Trinity is incapable of time stop, but Arata actually does have time manipulation? What it looks more like now is that Deus Infinity has an attack that resists time manipulation while Arata is the one who has the power to stop time so she can react but was able to react to Deus' attack despite the resistance.

I'm not really sure, there has been stuff confusing me.
 
Worthless said:
From the look of it it doesn't look like a time stop but just an odd effects that usually appeared in a slow motion events. You will usually see this on, when someone or the MC was about to be hit or killed by something, like example the infamous car aka "truck kun" in some anime when it happens the background will suddenly disappeared and the time will became slower. Anyway the OP already pointed out that black background doesn't always mean time stop right? so what are you guys still arguing about...
Click to expand...
That's a false equivalence and false analogy as fictions rarely portray that every black scene in the anime/manga black panel means time slow, if they do then so be it, that's like saying all the black panels in the Trinity Seven manga are time slow only because there are many other fictions that apply if the black panel scene is put as "time slow" and "time stop" with no additional evidence shown that it is clear that there is a reference to time slow, not counting the author's intention of course.

Here, in the context, the Lucifer Gaze attack from Deus Trinity is at a level that is too fast even to the point that it makes the situation around for a moment look like a freeze/stop where the opponent completely needs to react or counter the attack in a finite time.
Worthless said:
The anti feat OP showed is a blatant not time stop as the person herself who did it claimed it not to be
Click to expand...
I have already explained above that there is no clear evidence that the Lucifer Gaze attack is time slow, even in the verse alone it is explained that each Archive and Theme have their own abilities. And there is no evidence that Archive and Theme in T7 can do the same thing to each other.

I want proof that Lucifer Gaze there can do time slow, not just assumptions and useless words.
 
Nexp06 said:
That's a false equivalence and false analogy as fictions rarely portray that every black scene in the anime/manga black panel means time slow, if they do then so be it, that's like saying all the black panels in the Trinity Seven manga are time slow only because there are many other fictions that apply if the black panel scene is put as "time slow" and "time stop" with no additional evidence shown that it is clear that there is a reference to time slow, not counting the author's intention of course.
Click to expand...
It's LITERALLY a thing like do you even watch other anime besides trinity?
Nexp06 said:
I have already explained above that there is no clear evidence that the Lucifer Gaze attack is time slow, even in the verse alone it is explained that each Archive and Theme have their own abilities. And there is no evidence that Archive and Theme in T7 can do the same thing to each other.
Click to expand...
The reason why it's infinite is because black background = means time stop, yes? But OP already debunked that argument, by showing the panel where it showed that black background DOESN'T always mean time stop.

It also mean time slow and I've already unintentionally explained why this is the case instead of the time stop.
Nexp06 said:
want proof that Lucifer Gaze there can do time slow, not just assumptions and useless words.
Click to expand...
Do you even understand the situation you are in right now? what you are saying is also just an assumption lmao And for you someone who probably only seen trinity, for u it's probably useless words, but for me it's not.
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
In this part, I said that it is a Time Stop Ability if using Element Magic King.

In the past, Liese was a Magic King Candidate because she had possessed the Magic King Element.

And Liese was also able to activate her Last Crest. In this case, the time around him immediately changed very slowly.

After that, he was able to make Last Crest become his Time Stop. That signaled that at that moment he had controlled his Last Crest using Element Magic King.

And, here when Arata has Liese's Acedia Archive, he can immediately use his Time Stop ability easily. Ahh yes, maybe many people don't know, Arata is a Magic King.

Therefore, this really proved that if he used Element Magic King, he could instantly stop time perfectly.

With this, the conclusion is :
  • Lucifer Gaze is not a Time Stop ability.
  • The scene that Fixxed provides is the Time Stop ability, if using Element Magic King.
Click to expand...
 
TheTrunZ said:
Not only do we as readers think that the black panel is a Time Stop, even Arata himself thought that such a black panel was a Time Stop by Liese as an Archive Acedia user.

Btw I disagree with the infinite speed drop here.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, mine also needs a little attention.
And it has also been explained by Rendy that only the Arcedia Archives can manipulate time and it is also unlikely that it is similar in other fictions that the black panel is like a slow time scene as Worthless said.
Worthless said:
From the look of it it doesn't look like a time stop but just an odd effects that usually appeared in a slow motion events. You will usually see this on, when someone or the MC was about to be hit or killed by something, like example the infamous car aka "truck kun" in some anime when it happens the background will suddenly disappeared and the time will became slower. Anyway the OP already pointed out that black background doesn't always mean time stop right? so what are you guys still arguing about...
Click to expand...
Is the black panel in Trinity Seven a time slowdown? Of course it wasn't. Even Arata himself thought that the black panel like that was time stopped by the Arcedia Archive user Liese.
 
WSNnhI9.png

already proved there are 2 pages if not all black panels are a time stop.

It doesn't matter whether she can do that (Time stop) or not because that's not the point I want to make. while the point I want to convey is when you make a big mistake in generalizing that all black panels are time stops. and again, that almost if there is a black panel=time stop scene it is explained on that page. but not with Lucifer gaze.
 
Rendynoc0unter said:
Because DDM said it was a Time Stop ability. So here I will explain that it is not a Time Stop Ability.

Time Manipulation itself can only be used by Archive Acedia, which is shown by Liese herself who has Archive Acedia, even when Arata gets Liese's Archive, she can immediately use the Time Stop Ability.

In the Trinity Seven wiki, we see that Liese is an Archive Acedia user, and I still have proof that she is.

Here we can see Liese, who is an Acedia user, manipulating time.

Even when Arata had accepted Liese's Archive

Arata can also do things like stopping time as well.

In this way, it has been proven that only Acedia Archives can use Time Manipulation.

Even Deus only has 3 Archives, namely Superbia, Sugar and Avarita. In addition, Deus is said to be able to activate only one Archive at the moment, Superbia. In this way, it is not a Time Manipulation.

As such, this has proven that Deus Trinity did not have a ability Time Stop, as it did not have an Acedia Archive at the time.


--------


In this part, I said that it is a Time Stop Ability if using Element Magic King.

In the past, Liese was a Magic King Candidate because she had possessed the Magic King Element.

And Liese was also able to activate her Last Crest. In this case, the time around him immediately changed very slowly.

After that, he was able to make Last Crest become his Time Stop. That signaled that at that moment he had controlled his Last Crest using Element Magic King.

And, here when Arata has Liese's Acedia Archive, he can immediately use his Time Stop ability easily. Ahh yes, maybe many people don't know, Arata is a Magic King.

Therefore, this really proved that if he used Element Magic King, he could instantly stop time perfectly.

With this, the conclusion is :
  • Lucifer Gaze is not a Time Stop ability.
  • The scene that Fixxed provides is the Time Stop ability, if using Element Magic King.
Click to expand...
Uh is this supposed to mean something? Cause this doesn't really debunked the idea that time slow = black backgrounds considering with the matter with "baal peor" her profile in this site also stated it's just time slowing and not time stop... but even if she can somehow use it, to stop the time, it doesn't really debunk the time slow = black backgrounds because the black background still appeared despite it's not time stop.
 
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