Doom Revision

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Are you knowledgeable in this verse babe?

I've played some games but wouldn't say I'm that knowledgeable. I am not your "babe" Reiner how many times do we have to go over this...

 

[ShionAH]

I've played some games but wouldn't say I'm that knowledgeable. I am not your "babe" Reiner how many times do we have to go over this...

 

[ShionAH]

Have you read the initial thread?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/doom-tier-1-cosmology-proposal.139837

I read it and the replies seem to be bullshit, like they were taking each quote as weak as possible to downplay the verse. "Urdak is inaccessible to lower dimensions: Uh it means humans are weak! Nothign else!"

Like holy damn what is this

 

[Firestorm808]

I read it and the replies seem to be bullshit, like they were taking each quote as weak as possible to downplay the verse. "Urdak is inaccessible to lower dimensions: Uh it means humans are weak! Nothign else!"

Like holy damn what is this

This is just following the Tiering FAQ. Dimensional/Transcendence/Higher Plane statements are empty without some characteristic demonstrating a larger size.

That's what I did with Hell being just a small part of Davoth.

 

[Vietthai96]

I still always have problem with people taking the statement so literally that they believe Hell is a small part of Davoth while nothing suggested that way. And why Hell has BDE anyway, based on what statement??

 

[Robo432343]

HDE doom was literally addressed here

https://vsbattles.com/threads/doomguys-weird-ability.150816/

 

[ShionAH]

This is just following the Tiering FAQ. Dimensional/Transcendence/Higher Plane statements are empty without some characteristic demonstrating a larger size.

That's what I did with Hell being just a small part of Davoth.

Higher plane of existence can actually be used since its not vague at all. The only way you can use it is as dimensional which in this case shows its in the 5 dimension plus the fact it is the superior realm shows its HD. We dont need actual scans showing hell is bigger if it is stated to be so

By the way Firestorm why does Doomguy not have Fate hax?

HDE doom was literally addressed here

https://vsbattles.com/threads/doomguys-weird-ability.150816/

So? I still think its wrong.

I still always have problem with people taking the statement so literally that they believe Hell is a small part of Davoth while nothing suggested that way. And why Hell has BDE anyway, based on what statement??

You contradict yourself

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I still always have problem with people taking the statement so literally that they believe Hell is a small part of Davoth while nothing suggested that way. And why Hell has BDE anyway, based on what statement??

I dunno "transcending space and time" and "unlimited by boundaries of space, time, or dimensions" seem pretty text book BDE to me.

 

[ShionAH]

This is just following the Tiering FAQ. Dimensional/Transcendence/Higher Plane statements are empty without some characteristic demonstrating a larger size.

That's what I did with Hell being just a small part of Davoth.

Another thing is this whole cosmology is actually already accepted as 6D

"Higher-Dimensional Manipulation (Controls higher-dimensions like Urdak)"

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

My thoughts are more or less the same as Firestorm's.

 

[ShionAH]

My thoughts are more or less the same as Firestorm's.

I think he is neutral so do you think I should put you both as neutral and you can ping some staff to come?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, go ahead. And Planck already pinged quite a few staff earlier and don't want them to feel like it's redundant.

 

[ShionAH]

Yeah, go ahead. And Planck already pinged quite a few staff earlier and don't want them to feel like it's redundant.

Oh true alright, thanks

 

[ShionAH]

bump

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm fine with the speed thing for the Khan Maykr but as I made clear to others who ask me to evaluate stuff like this, I'm not discussing Higher Dimensional/Tier 1 until further notice.

 

[Firestorm808]

• Contextual Statements | Main Statements
  • Hell causes "transdimensional encounters"
    • The general definition of transdimensional leans toward the context of higher mathematical dimensionalityfor Hell.
      • (science fiction) Relating to a dimension other than those of the normal three-dimensional world
      • (statistics) Applicable to multiple dimensionalities; Having components or subspaces of a different dimension
  • Hell is described as having a pandimensional existence.
    • The general definition of pandimensional pertains to all dimensions of reality.
    • The low end is all parallel dimensions with the high end being all higher dimensions.
    • Considering the previous statements of mathematical dimensionality, the next statement regarding 4-D, and the current agreements about Davoth and the Void, all dimensions of reality likely include mathematically higher dimensions. Conservatively, this can be taken as one qualitative size larger.
  • Hell is unlimited by the
    • boundaries of space,
      • Similar to the Universe, it has Infinite 3-D Space
    • [boundaries of] time,
      • The Multiverse is already a 2-A 4-D structure. This suggests Hell at least meets the 4-D Dimensionality of the Multiverse at 2-A.
    • or [boundaries of] dimension.
      • Considering the previous contexts of mathematical dimensions, 4-D previously referred to, and the dimensionality of Davoth and the Void, this suggests dimensions more than the prior 2-A 4-D.
      • Conservatively, this can be taken as one qualitative size larger.
• Statements that use the context above | Side Supporting Statements
  • Book of the Seraphs - Part I: Davoth "A realm superior to Urdak."
    • On its own, there is just a possibility of qualitative superiority.
  • "Many worlds have fallen to Hell, each now bound to ruin, connected by pathways of darkness transcending space and time."
  • Doom 3: Maelstrom: It contains evils that "transcended time and space."
    • On their own, there is just a possibility of a qualitative transcendence.

In summary, I can see the merit of Hell being Low 1-C.

@DarkDragonMedeus Your thoughts?

 

[Robo432343]

Dont use the transcending time and space statements since it’s too vague to imply qualitative superiority

 

[ShionAH]

Dont use the transcending time and space statements since it’s too vague to imply qualitative superiority

Its supporting

 

[Reiner04]

Dont use the transcending time and space statements since it’s too vague to imply qualitative superiority

It can be used as supportive evidence.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

• Contextual Statements | Main Statements
  • Hell causes "transdimensional encounters"
    • The general definition of transdimensional leans toward the context of higher mathematical dimensionalityfor Hell.
      • (science fiction) Relating to a dimension other than those of the normal three-dimensional world
      • (statistics) Applicable to multiple dimensionalities; Having components or subspaces of a different dimension
  • Hell is described as having a pandimensional existence.
    • The general definition of pandimensional pertains to all dimensions of reality.
    • The low end is all parallel dimensions with the high end being all higher dimensions.
    • Considering the previous statements of mathematical dimensionality, the next statement regarding 4-D, and the current agreements about Davoth and the Void, all dimensions of reality likely include mathematically higher dimensions. Conservatively, this can be taken as one qualitative size larger.
  • Hell is unlimited by the
    • boundaries of space,
      • Similar to the Universe, it has Infinite 3-D Space
    • [boundaries of] time,
      • The Multiverse is already a 2-A 4-D structure. This suggests Hell at least meets the 4-D Dimensionality of the Multiverse at 2-A.
    • or [boundaries of] dimension.
      • Considering the previous contexts of mathematical dimensions, 4-D previously referred to, and the dimensionality of Davoth and the Void, this suggests dimensions more than the prior 2-A 4-D.
      • Conservatively, this can be taken as one qualitative size larger.
• Statements that use the context above | Side Supporting Statements
  • Book of the Seraphs - Part I: Davoth "A realm superior to Urdak."
    • On its own, there is just a possibility of qualitative superiority.
  • "Many worlds have fallen to Hell, each now bound to ruin, connected by pathways of darkness transcending space and time."
  • Doom 3: Maelstrom: It contains evils that "transcended time and space."
    • On their own, there is just a possibility of a qualitative transcendence.

In summary, I can see the possibility of Hell being Low 1-C.

@DarkDragonMedeus Your thoughts?

Seems reasonable, but isn't Hell already Low 1-C or was that never applied? Been a while since I last looked at the page.

 

[ShionAH]

Seems reasonable, but isn't Hell already Low 1-C or was that never applied? Been a while since I last looked at the page.

Hell is accepted as 2-A

 

[ShionAH]

Since 2 staff agree now can I add this?

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Since 2 staff agree now can I add this?

Tier 1 requires 3.

 

[ShionAH]

Tier 1 requires 3.

Really? Can you quote the rule

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Really? Can you quote the rule

It falls under controversial topics so it needs 3 agrees or more.

 

[Firestorm808]

Really? Can you quote the rule

"In cases where the series verse has a significant following or a large amount of material has been published based on its content, it may be necessary to seek approval from a minimum of three staff members to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed revisions."

"For content revisions that affect Tier 2 or higher, the participation of at least one Administrator in the review and approval process is required."

"The review and approval of content revisions that affect tiers 1 and 0 or that are highly controversial should be conducted by a larger number of staff members in order to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed changes."

 

[ShionAH]

"In cases where the series verse has a significant following or a large amount of material has been published based on its content, it may be necessary to seek approval from a minimum of three staff members to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed revisions."

"For content revisions that affect Tier 2 or higher, the participation of at least one Administrator in the review and approval process is required."

"The review and approval of content revisions that affect tiers 1 and 0 or that are highly controversial should be conducted by a larger number of staff members in order to ensure that all relevant parties are aware of and agree with the proposed changes."

Can you ping some staff then? So we can end this

 

[PavilVers]

Doom 3 not canon

13:16

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Doom 3 not canon

13:16

Isnt it still within the same multiverse?

 

[ZeedKZ]

DOOM 3 is actually said to be canon and to have its own timeline by Hugo Martin.

 

[PavilVers]

DOOM 3 is actually said to be canon and to have its own timeline by Hugo Martin​

I sent you an interview where he said that he made a mistake on the stream

 

[Firestorm808]

DOOM 3 is actually said to be canon and to have its own timeline by Hugo Martin​

I sent you an interview where he said that he made a mistake on the stream

Hugo's answer on the stream is corroborated by the lore books, with a multiverse of Doomguys.

The interview question asked if Doom 3 is on the same timeline as Eternal.

Doom 3 is a different timeline Doomguy.

 

[ZeedKZ]

He never said that DOOM 3 doesn't exists within the wider iD multiverse, it just that it isn't the same Doomguy as we currently know. DOOM 3 is canon because it has its own canon...

 

[ShionAH]

Hugo's answer on the stream is corroborated by the lore books, with a multiverse of Doomguys.

The interview question asked if Doom 3 is on the same timeline as Eternal.

Doom 3 is a different timeline Doomguy.

Can you call staff? I assume DDM agrees since he said he agrees with your view which is agreement

 

[PavilVers]

Doom 3 completely contradicts the rules of the world according to which the Lore of the new Doom works. In Doom 3, people can safely move between worlds, although in the new canon they do not tolerate the load and die during teleportation (in the board game it is said that this is because a mortal soul cannot leave Hell). In Doom 3, people descended from Martians, but in the new lore, people and Earthly Realms created Maykrs, which Hugo also wrote about. There are many more such inconsistencies, for example, in the ArtBook Doom 3 it is said that the Guardian of Hell is a demon who represented Dinosaurs on Earth and was like a demon for Lizards. However, in the new canon, we know that Demons are in no way connected with all Earthly realms.

 

[Firestorm808]

@LephyrTheRevanchist

Can I have your thoughts on my breakdown below?

• Contextual Statements | Main Statements
  • Hell causes "transdimensional encounters"
    • The general definition of transdimensional leans toward the context of higher mathematical dimensionalityfor Hell.
      • (science fiction) Relating to a dimension other than those of the normal three-dimensional world
      • (statistics) Applicable to multiple dimensionalities; Having components or subspaces of a different dimension
  • Hell is described as having a pandimensional existence.
    • The general definition of pandimensional pertains to all dimensions of reality.
    • The low end is all parallel dimensions with the high end being all higher dimensions.
    • Considering the previous statements of mathematical dimensionality, the next statement regarding 4-D, and the current agreements about Davoth and the Void, all dimensions of reality likely include mathematically higher dimensions. Conservatively, this can be taken as one qualitative size larger.
  • Hell is unlimited by the
    • boundaries of space,
      • Similar to the Universe, it has Infinite 3-D Space
    • [boundaries of] time,
      • The Multiverse is already a 2-A 4-D structure. This suggests Hell at least meets the 4-D Dimensionality of the Multiverse at 2-A.
    • or [boundaries of] dimension.
      • Considering the previous contexts of mathematical dimensions, 4-D previously referred to, and the dimensionality of Davoth and the Void, this suggests dimensions more than the prior 2-A 4-D.
      • Conservatively, this can be taken as one qualitative size larger.
• Statements that use the context above | Side Supporting Statements
  • Book of the Seraphs - Part I: Davoth "A realm superior to Urdak."
    • On its own, there is just a possibility of qualitative superiority.
  • "Many worlds have fallen to Hell, each now bound to ruin, connected by pathways of darkness transcending space and time."
  • Doom 3: Maelstrom: It contains evils that "transcended time and space."
    • On their own, there is just a possibility of a qualitative transcendence.

In summary, I can see the merit of Hell being Low 1-C.

 

[ShionAH]

Doom 3 completely contradicts the rules of the world according to which the Lore of the new Doom works. In Doom 3, people can safely move between worlds, although in the new canon they do not tolerate the load and die during teleportation (in the board game it is said that this is because a mortal soul cannot leave Hell). In Doom 3, people descended from Martians, but in the new lore, people and Earthly Realms created Maykrs, which Hugo also wrote about. There are many more such inconsistencies, for example, in the ArtBook Doom 3 it is said that the Guardian of Hell is a demon who represented Dinosaurs on Earth and was like a demon for Lizards. However, in the new canon, we know that Demons are in no way connected with all Earthly realms.

Is this really the place to talk about this?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

In Doom 3, people descended from Martians, but in the new lore, people and Earthly Realms created Maykrs, which Hugo also wrote about.

sure that is not Mykar creates the Martians and these are the ancestors of humans in that alternate timeline?

 

[Firestorm808]

In Doom 3, people descended from Martians, but in the new lore, people and Earthly Realms created Maykrs, which Hugo also wrote about.

One, it's only theorized, not confirmed. Also, when did it say the Maykrs created humanity?

There are many more such inconsistencies, for example, in the ArtBook Doom 3 it is said that the Guardian of Hell is a demon who represented Dinosaurs on Earth and was like a demon for Lizards. However, in the new canon, we know that Demons are in no way connected with all Earthly realms.

"The designers commented in the Making of Doom 3 book that the Guardian was created with the idea of a pre-human Hell during the prehistoric age, and it was something that dinosaurs feared."

Seems more about the artistic design inspiration. Also, Demons are made from anything with a soul.

 

[ShionAH]

Being called a higher plane should be enough to say its straight up 5D, now the 6D part is gonna be harder though