- 3,179
- 503
Slayer scales to the titan imo
Wut do people want to change about classic Doomguy?
Wut do people want to change about classic Doomguy?
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Why are we scaling the classic Doomguy to an alternate continuity?At least Wall level (Capable of killing demons on this level with his bare fists, is also noticeably stronger than his counterpart from DOOM 3)
Ah shit...Multi-City Block level with the Berserk Sphere or BFG 9000 (Capable of killing the Cyberdemon with Berserk Sphere, though this takes a fair amount of time to accomplish)
This needs to be removed from the profile, because it isn't a real feat.At least Supersonic (Easily capable of outrunning rockets despite the restrictions of his armor, can dodge machine-generated electricity and plasma weapons with ease
I don't see why it would be. The game's own data and code (which can be found on various wikis nowadays) tells us that the player doesn't normally move fast enough to outrun a rocket in-game. The only reason people can do so is because the straferunning glitch bumps your movement speed up from 16.67 mu/tic to anywhere between 21.34 and 35+, depending on which tricks you're using and how many.Wait wasn't that accepted as not strafe tricks?
I don't think there are. I mean there is that old DOOM comic from the 90s (lol), but I don't think it's actually canon to the games. I'm fairly positive the DOOM novel isn't canon either.Either way are there any books or comics that are canon to DOOM or something
I'm not seeing a single thing in the video I linked that implies any of what you're saying it does.@MrKingOfNegativity while our interpretation of that feat may have been off, it think it still scales because from what you said it just shows us that the khan makyrs power was keeping urdak in shape and the dark lord’s influence at bay.
If you're talking about the Titan as seen in the Titan's Realm stage of the 2016 game, its body is desiccated. There's no way to tell what shape it was in immediately after its defeat.As for the titan, he still physically overpowered it. When we look at the titan in agent d’nur we see no cut wounds on it so it would seem like to me he just beat the shit out of it and then put the sword inside of it after wards.
Hugo Martin doesn't seem to be aware of how much the events laid out within the games contradict this.@MrKingOfNegativity
Hugo Martin stated that the slayer is capable of overpowering titans with fists and weapons.The setpieces suggest that it took huge mechs in order to overpower the titans for the average sentinel as well.
Hugo states crucibles are all equally powerful as well,so no one crucible is superior to the other.
The codex doesn't explicitly state that he withstood hits from that Titan. Only that he defeated it. We don't have any specifics on the fight itself, or what the Slayer actually did during that fight.well we know for a fact that doom guy can wistand an attack from a titan(icon of sin fight and the titan champion codex) so wouldn't his dura just scale to his AP?
All of this is demonstrated through gameplay which, in this franchise, is repeatedly contradictory to the lore and statements scaling-wise. Examples:
Trying to use any sort of gameplay events as evidence of scaling is problematic, because the events which happen in gameplay repeatedly do not mesh with what is stated, shown and otherwise evidenced within the cutscenes and lore.
- Lore states that only the Slayer can stop the Titan.
- The Icon of Sin takes visible damage from all of the Doom Slayer's firearms.
- Almost all of the Doom Slayer's weapons are either UAC standard or otherwise limited. The only weapon intrinsic to the Slayer (besides those accompanying his Praetor Armor) is the Crucible.
- Almost all of the Doom Slayer's UAC weapons have hard numbers assigned to their damage output. Numbers which place them nowhere near the Icon in terms of...well, anything.
- The Khan Makyr is stated to be invulnerable to the Doom Slayer's attacks until the orb within her chest is removed.
- Her boss fight has nothing to do with removing the orb from her chest. You beat the boss by shooting the shield until it disappears and then hitting her in the face.
- The Spider Mastermind (reboot version) dies in a cutscene where the Slayer shoots it in the face with the BFG.
that has nothing to do with ap thats lifting strengthThe Slayer, after defeating what was initially the mightiest Titan in existence, was incapacitated by having one of the Blood Temples forcibly collapsed on top of him. Average Titans are capable of carrying Blood Temples on their backs without significant trouble, much less being rendered immobile by the weight.
It's not just lifting strength. It's also withstanding the weight of a temple without being injured in the process.that has nothing to do with ap thats lifting strength
he did though if he couldn't he'd be dead which he ain'tIt's not just lifting strength. It's also withstanding the weight of a temple without being injured in the process.
Which is something the Slayer couldn't do.
well then monster hunter need quite the bit of a downgradeI don't think killing a Kaiju necessary means you scale to its AP lol.
"Small dude kills giant monster by stabbing it" is the most common trope in existence.
Doesn't matter. Part of the claim relies on the fact that the Slayer defeated the strongest Titan of the First Age, which is something that happened...during the First Age, prior to the events of 2016.Firstly,the lore states he has gotten much stronger since the previous events of 2016 and most likely much stronger than his former prime was.
What do you think the Hell Barges are?Secondly,I’ll need some source on Titans carrying blood temples on their backs.
Slayer Testament VII said:Yet as the mighty Titan fell and dread engulfed the armies of Doom, the demon priests of the Blood Temples laid a trap to capture this scourge of Hell. Insatiable, even by the vanquishing of the Great One, the Hell Walker sought prey in the tombs of the Blood Keep. And blinded by his fervor, the lure drew him in. The priests brought down the temple upon the Doom Slayer, and in his defeat entombed him in the cursed sarcophagus.
The Titans are shown carrying these temples/Hell Barges throughout the game, so between that and the above, there's all the evidence you need.Codex; Story of Hell - Hell Barges said:Atop mighty Thralls, the Hell Priests oversaw the invasion of the mortal world. The Thrall, slave titan of the underworld, carried the Priest Temples into the wake of battle, providing the Priests with vigil of Hell's advance from a strategically impervious emplacement. From their Temples perch the Priests would emanate a powerful psionic influence, imposing greater coordination among the chaotic forces of Hell and increasing their battle effectiveness. The Thrall, possessing superior resilience, proved indestructible by conventional weapons, thwarting all attempts by Armored Response Coalition defensive forces. Only by severing the Priest's psychokinetic tether could the Titan be neutralized - an act that could only be accomplished by an infiltration of the Temple itself.
Clearly not since, as evidenced within the Slayer Testament passage I linked above, the collapse of the temple incapacitated him enough that they were able to take him and seal him in the cursed sarcophagus. Which they never would have been able to do if he were simply "stunned", seeing as his first action in 2016, while barely awake, is to grab the nearby demon and smash its head into chunks of meat. He would have to be significantly injured or flat-out unconscious in order for them to successfully seal him away. And since his Praetor Armor was almost completely unscathed when the UAC recovered it (and him), that only leaves one possibility...The Doomslayer having the blood temple collapse only stunned him too.
No it didn't. The events depicted within the Slayer Testaments happened very late into his blessing, long after the Sentinels were dead and the Slayer was rampaging alone on a quest to kill the Hell Priests for their deception.Not to mention that only happened fairly early into his blessing.
History of the Sentinels - Part XIV said:All of Hell knew of the Betrayal, for it was without question the Maykrs and the Priests who had sowed the seeds of deceit long before the brave warriors passed through the gate. What Hell saw that day was the beating heart of the free people of Argent D'Nur; they did not flinch in the face of their own certain death. They died as they lived, with sword and shield in hand, Urdak too low a place to house such giants. Theirs would be the fate of warrior gods, remembered for all time.
(...)
The Priests believed the Sentinels all slain, but we are Argenta, born to overcome. Rumors, deemed heretical by the Order Deag, persist and claim that the Slayer himself still rages in the Unholy Realm. None who live can know, for the future of Argent D'Nur has been bent and twisted by the perverted vision of the Essence-drinkers. Never again will the light of the Wraiths illuminate our world. All has fallen.
If the Slayer does live, let him carry our vengeance forward. If he persists, let him wreak violence on those who have wronged us. May the blood of his sword never dry, may his war never end until the guilty have been punished, and may this evil never again spread its shadow over another world.
The timeline of events is very clear. And that definitely matters in regards to what I'm about to say next...Slayer Testament I said:In his ravenous hatred he found no peace; and with boiling blood he scoured the Umbral Plains, seeking vengeance against the dark lords who had wronged him. He wore the crown of the Night Sentinels, and those who tasted the bite of his sword named him...The Doom Slayer.
Do you want a Doylist answer or a Watsonian one?If a simple blood temple collapse is all what it took to knock him out,why didn’t they achieve something similar in one of the most important invasions ever?
What is your reasoning for why the Khan Makyr should be stronger? She has no real feats of her own and there aren't any statements I'm aware of which imply that her raw power is above what the Titans frequently showcase.Third,the maykr’s orb was weak to the doomslayer’s blood punches.Implying that he had some physical interaction with her.The Khan should be superior to any barge available and was damaged by the Doomslayer physically.
"Completely wrecking the only thing that would’ve given him a physical vessel into the world" scales him to the Father's AP how, exactly? I hope you're not trying to imply that the orb was at the level of the Father just because it could incarnate him into physical existence.Fourth,doomguy destroyed the father’s orb with his bare hands.Completely wrecking the only thing that would’ve given him a physical vessel into the world,not to mention also smacked around the seraphim whom should be superior to the barges and maybe the Khan.
That's something I'll be figuring out as I go along, once the more nonsensical interpretations are done away with. I want what is reasonable. Nothing more, nothing less.What are you exactly planning for the slayer’s tier?
Being unable to withstand a certain weight bearing down on you without hurting yourself doesn't necessarily mean you'll die from any amount of weight that can cause you physical injury, so I'm not sure what you're getting at with this.he did though if he couldn't he'd be dead which he ain't
Wrong.the only thing that happen is he got trapped
And blinded by his fervor, the lure drew him in. The priests brought down the temple upon the Doom Slayer, and in his defeat entombed him in the cursed sarcophagus.
He wasn't just trapped by the temple debris. He was incapacitated enough that the Hell Priests were able to take him out, place him within a sarcophagus, bring it to a tomb kilometers deep inside the Kadingir Sanctum, then mark the place with a series of intricate wards and runes that surrounded him in a barrier and kept him in stasis.UAC REPORT FILE 7VPMJ2IQ said:Without doubt, UAC's most remarkable recent discovery was uncovered in its expedition to Hell's Kadingir Sanctum. After several kilometers through nearly impassable terrain, the team discovered a sealed tomb - its entrance and walls covered in protective runes and imprisonment incantations. Once opened, the tomb revealed many artifacts including the Praetor suit. Most notable, however, was an enormous sarcophagus bound to the center bedrock of the tomb with thick iron bands - seemingly anchored to prevent anything from getting in or out.
It was initially believed this sarcophagus must hold a rare or powerful demon, but when later opened, it revealed the body of a man. The body was not petrified or decomposed - in fact, he appeared to be only sleeping despite the fact that the bed he lay in seemed millennia old. Attempts to wake the man were fruitless - and to harm him even more so - as a protective Argent barrier around the body kept him safe from harm in permanent stasis.
Are you referring to the Argent Tower? Because if you are, we don't see the full extent of that explosion, or anything else we can get a yield from.hell we see him wistand the self dustruction of the uca oil rig no issue
We're not saying the Slayer killed it at all, because he didn't. He sealed it with the Crucible, which is something Hayden immediately notes will cease the moment he removes the blade from its chest.@MrKingOfNegativity That titan who is half under rubble doesn’t have a single cut wound besides where it was planted, I mean only it’s legs and arms are covered up are we saying that doom guy killed by giving it cuts to the appendages?
I do. It's called "not having enough evidence to scale that AP to anything else".I mean what are you proposing again? That the titan AP only scales to the crucible? If so I don’t understand how that would work.
I'm starting to get the feeling that you've actually forgotten the events of the story you're talking about.The khan makyr specifically stated the seal of urdak has been broken and it was broken by doomguy’s actions, which then proceed to cause the destruction.
The Slayer Testaments aren't the only thing I'm taking into account when coming to the conclusion that he was wielding a Crucible. Not only does another Crucible appear at the end of 2016, but Eternal's story makes it clear that Crucible blades can be acquired elsewhere with enough time and knowledge of them. With that in mind, I think the assumption that the Slayer was wielding a Crucible during his rampage is a fair one, since he didn't necessarily need to go back and take his old one out of the Dreadnought's body in order for that to be the case.Something I'd like to bring up. The Slayer did not have his Crucible blade during his rampage against Hell. He lodged that blade into the Dreadnaught Titan. So when the Slayer entered the Titans realm and Took on The Champion, the only weapons he would have is a basic sword and his Super Shotgun. With that in mind, I do believe hugo's Statement that the Slayer can kill a Titan with his bare hands holds a lot of truth.
Well I mean, it's just based off of what Hugo said and he makes the statement twice.That's fine, you can believe whatever you want, but that isn't enough to get something on the wiki.
You're giving his devotion to their ways a bit too much credit. He doesn't care about Sentinel laws and codes.There is no evidence that he got another crucible blade though. The crucible he lodged into the Dreadnaught is his Personal Blade, Which is why he took the hilt when he snapped it out of the Dreadnaught. As for the Crucible Blade in 2016, that's the Demonic Crucible, which is different from a Common or King Crucible. Another thing I'd like to Note, Since the Slayer was a Sentinel king, It's highly unlikely that he would use a different Crucible Blade. It's written that when a sentinel acquires their weapon, they are practically tied to it by a code of honor, making it more unlikely that he used another Crucible during his rampage. I still believe the Slayer can take a Titan with his bare hands.
There's nothing to suggest that he didn't acquire another Crucible after the Dreadnought was defeated. If anything, there's much greater evidence that he did, seeing as the Testaments state that he had a sword during his rampage and (outside of WoG) there's no actual instance of him killing a Titan with his bare hands to contradict him needing a Crucible in order to kill the Great One. His lack of compunction in regards to attaining a new Crucible (even a demonic one) only furthers the likelihood that he actually did so at some point.History of the Sentinels - X said:The Slayer cared not for polity. He took no interest in the workings of our people, but set his task only on his desire; the destruction of the demons and their world.
You're overextrapolating again. She couldn't even prevent fodder demons from teleporting into Urdak once the seal was broken, which was something they explicitly couldn't do when the seal was still intact. If there were any environmental changes happening as a result of the seal being broken, she wouldn't be able to do a thing about them.@MrKingOfNegativity still don’t see how that changes anything, that would actually mean we can scale the icon to the feat too. The sky didn’t turn red and the realm didn’t end up in ruin until the Khan Makyr was killed by doomguy. So yes the khan makyr was clearly preventing the destruction from happening after the seal was broken.