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Doom Eternal Revision Thread Part 2

Dienomite22 said:
We can't take the word completely at face value as we have other examples of hell consuming other dimensions/planets with Argent D'nur being one of the examples that we actually see in game in both Doom 2016 and eternal not being completely destroyed as "Total devastation" would imply with you traverse through portions of argent d'nur inside hell in 2016 and descriptions stating a region of argent d'nur was in hell
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Argent D'Nur was a a completely different situation. There were no statements that argent D'Nur was completely destroyed, the statement was the planet was consumed into hell. The order of events for the icon of sin's situation is planet destruction, time-space warp around destroyed planet, then the black hole gets made and the universe gets consumed into hell.
 
KieranH10 said:
I don't think the developers were looking up definitions when writing the script. Total devastation could refer to a surface wipe just as much as an explosion or implosion. So we should at least look into it.
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I'm fairly certain that they would. Just read this excerpt right here. No one just throws these words around without knowing what they mean.
94EA5ED3-376F-45F1-8311-EE56996584AC
 
Tbh we should just have at least high 6A possibly 5B, and if that's not comfortable for some of you I guess we could just do high 6A possibly far higher. And when the storm calc comes out, and if it hits high 6A we can use that to say how far into high 6A he is.
 
DTG499 said:
Argent D'Nur was a a completely different situation. There were no statements that argent D'Nur was completely destroyed, the statement was the planet was consumed into hell. The order of events for the icon of sin's situation is planet destruction, time-space warp around destroyed planet, then the black hole gets made and the universe gets consumed into hell.
Click to expand...
Actually true looking back on the information.
 
But the icon of sin never destroyed argent'd nur,he was only created after the events.It was hell's forced invading the place that destroyed it and to add to that Argent'dnur is extremely fragmented,with floating pieces of rock being the only platforms you have to land on.
 
Let's just wait and see what the storm calc ends up being and we'll go from there. We could also possibly scale the moon fracture feat to the titans.
 
ThisThingisReallyBroken said:
But the icon of sin never destroyed argent'd nur,he was only created after the events.It was hell's forced invading the place that destroyed it and to add to that Argent'dnur is extremely fragmented,with floating pieces of rock being the only platforms you have to land on.
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Half-correct https://i.imgur.com/YalbuLn.png. Icon was the leader of sorts that was behind the destruction of argent d'nur after he was revived of course.
 
To be fair, Sentinel Prime is the main base where the Hell Priests and the other Knights serve the Maykrs. They wouldn't destroy that planet. It was after the civil war and betrayal that the Maykrs made a deal with hell. It's other worlds that are destroyed and absorbed into hell to fuel the Maykrs.

Would At least High 6-A, Possibly 5-B physically be agreeable?
 
ThisThingisReallyBroken said:
Key word lead,he didn't go in with his physical form as he now did for Earth.He was only a commander.
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No, he was leading the devastation personally as he was revived by the Betrayers's son's heart and went to Argent D'nur.
 
I know this is a bit late to add in but shouldn't cheats be canon? They're pickups just like collectables and weapon mods. They should be optional equipment.
 
Sir Ovens said:
I know this is a bit late to add in but shouldn't cheats be canon? They're pickups just like collectables and weapon mods. They should be optional equipment.
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Sure I'm fine with no time limit power ups.
 
ThisThingisReallyBroken said:
Shouldn't Doomguy get his 5-B key since he can take hits from the Icon of Sin and can damage him?
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He's going to be high 6-A possibly 5-B it's better like this because it increases the number of people he can fight.
 
Also this one might be a reach but since he's able to absorb power from his fallen foes and get stronger.....should he have a key for post icon of sin? Since he would be essentially getting double power boost.
 
"Total destruction of Earth" statements are often super vague. First of all, a lot of those more so refer to the surface of Earth rather than the entire GBE of Earth. If it says "Blow up the planet in a single blow" that would be an example of a 5-B statement. But "Total destruction of Earth" are treated at High 6-A at best without more elaborate context. And more importantly, there's also a timeframe for feats like that.

Although, a black hole that devours the planet would be 5-B at bare minimum. But I'm still iffy on that scaling to physical stats or durability since he's just using reality warping to use it and not Argent energy manipulation or something.
 
What exactly are the reasoning for the "At least High 6-A, likely 5-B" rating?

If it's because of the destroying the Earth thing, I disagree heavily with it. Since not only is it over time, it's also from a chain reaction. We don't have a time frame, and we have no reason to assume he directly tanked it. He could've just teleported away, resisted his own reality warping, etc.

Not to mention even if he did tank it, it isn't even implied to be happening in a singular blast. We don't know how much he would hypothetically tank it.
 
If it doesn't say *total devastation of the surface of the Earth" then it can't be assumed it's only the surface of the Earth that will be devastated.We can't just lowball things just because the lore doesn't yell at our faces the exact specifics of the destruction of Earth.Total devastation is likely what it means,total devastation of Earth.If it said "Total devastation of Humanity" then its understandable why it would be at least high 6-A,since it's mostly surface level destruction.However it does not say such a thing,it says Earth as a whole.The timeframe shouldn't be that long if Samuel Hayden was urging the slayer to hurry up and beat the Icon.The events of Urdak probably only took 45 minutes to complete,while the events of the final sin took place with less time.So we can say confidently say with evidence of Samuel's statements and urgency,it would take less than a couple of days to be "totally devastated".
 
Doomslayer wouldn't be 5-B regardless of the definition of "total destruction" as the Icon he fought wasn't that powerful.
 
Source?

Albeit he is implied he isn't completely at full power,this does imply he isn't at full power to destroy the universe as a whole,not that he isn't powerful enough to cause a complete devastation on earth.
 
If the Icon is allowed to remain unchecked it would lead to the total devastation of Earth

Icon get's more powerful overtime as Hayden said and the final sin description says ^that^ meaning the Icon isn't doing this "5-B" feat in one instance, making it not 5-B.
 
@dark that argument could be reversed onto you since they don't outright state that it was going to be a "planet surface wipe".

Also devastation>>>destruction.

It was most likely and explosion or implosion because they said the devastation of earth would RESULT in a black hole


@ogbun The time frame would be short, since samual was constantly urging DG to hurry.
 
@ThisThingisReallyBroken No, the full quote is.

If the Icon is allowed to remain unchecked it would lead to the total devastation of Earth, followed by a breakdown of spacetime around the planet. The resultant black hole will eventually dragged our entire universe down, casting it into the mouth of Hell as conquest to be absorbed by the Dark Realm

Not earth and universe. It takes time for him to devastate Earth and the fact that there would be a break down of spacetime "around the planet" leads me to believe this isn't planet busting feat either but just surface wiping.
 
I'm still on the side of surface wipe, if anything noteworthy at all. As Ogbunabali and Dark have said, we don't know enough about the nature of the destruction, sure it could be an explosion, but it could also be a chain reaction. Even if it was an explosion, we still don't know if the Icon would need to tank it, he could be teleported back to hell before the blast, or sent through a portal somewhere else.

If anything i'm on the side of a surface wipe, but i'm questioning that too at the moment.

I do, however, think that the Icon deserves a tier for his Reality Warping over time, but I don't think it scales to his physicals.
 
Well if his AP isn't planet busting,his durability has to scale in order to survive the devastation Earth and the universe.In addition it says "around the planet" so it could be just in the vicinity of the orbit of a "totally devastated" Earth.
 
Well,it obvious that the Icon of Sin has to be present in order for the destruction to happen.So teleporting him out wouldn't work nor is their ANY evidence that remotely suggests this possibility.
 
There isn't any evidence that remotely states that the earth is going to blow up. We get a statement of destruction without context of how it will happen. it's just as reasonable to think that it could be chain reaction, or a surface wipe, or a crack in spacetime that destroys the palnet. We have no context as to what is happening at all, we just know that the planet will be destroyed in one way or another.

Currently I believe that if the Icon gets a tier for his reality warping, it would be from the surface wipe (Around High 6-A), to much higher over time (The statement of the black hole consuming the universe)

I believe that the Icon should be along the lines of "At least 7-C, likely 7-B physically, likely High 6-A with reality warping. Higher over time"

If anything.
 
@ThisThingisReallyBroken

That isn't the issue. The issue is that Icon's total devastation could mean multiple things. It could mean Icon suddenly get's stronger and surface wipes. It could mean he travels across the planet while getting stronger and does the surface wiping over time. Or It could mean he sends out attacks that surface wipes large areas of the planet. No way of knowing the method the Icon would use and there is no proof that it would be a done in one go either, making it not 5-B and only possibly High 6-A.
 
I'll take possibly high 6-A to higher with abilities then.He physical destructive capabilities should be comparable to the BFG10K if not higher.

However since there is no evidence saying how the total destruction of Earth happens.It's more likely slightly more powerful than a simple surface wipe.
 
The time frame would be very short from samual urging to him to hurry. Also the majority of the planets surface is already destroyed and samual was still freaking out and pressuring doomguy to hurry. We still have to find out who fractured the moon and the prophecy states that only doomguy can kill the icon of sin which means the BFG 10K wouldn't be able to.

But at the end of the day we need the storm calc to tie all those things together. So we should wait before we go any further with this.
 
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