Does the Holopsicon work on characters that are not "fictional" in the context of their home franchises?

[Hallowed_Ground_the_Man]

We know that the Creations in Re:Creators are characters that are "fictional" in the context of their franchise. That much is not really debated. Of course, we also know that characters like Sota, Matsubara, and Setsuna are intended to be "real people" like you and I in the context of Re:Creators. That said, while the Creations are capable of hurting and killing "real people" using their powers, it appears that Altair's Holopsicon has only been used directly against other Creations. We know that the Holopsicon deals with concepts that seem only applicable to "fictional characters", such as reversing plot developments, copying in-universe fictional powers and weaponry, story revising, etc.

And so, here's my question. Because the Holopsicon seems only to interact with and affect characters that are intended to be "fictional" in the context of their home franchise, will it even work on characters that are not intended to be such? Characters like Goku, Aang, Monkey D. Luffy, Naruto, and Edward Elric are not "fictional" in the contexts of their respective home franchises and you could say that they are "real people" within their franchises like Sota and Matsubara and Setsune were in the world of Re:Creators. If Altair were to be pitted against those characters, will the Holopsicon even work on them? It can be argued that no, it wouldn't, simply because those characters are "real people", but in that case, Altair would be stripped of much of her combat efficacy. Does this mean that certain guidelines need to be established when using Altair in a battle against a character that is a "real person", like saying that the Holopsicon will work on the opponent and saying that the opponent's life history (events of which are not "fictional" in the context of the opponent's home franchise) will be treated as "plot" that the Holopsicon can interact with?

 

[LightSShinning]

Pretty sure Verse equalization take care of that,if you want to ask more you should ask Assaltwaffle he know the verse the most .Also you should ask this at the questions and answers broad

 

[Hallowed_Ground_the_Man]

Pretty sure Verse equalization take care of that,if you want to ask more you should ask Assaltwaffle he know the verse the most

Can you be a bit more specific about Verse Equalization then and what you mean by it in this context?

 

[LightSShinning]

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses. For example, mind control resistance by being a capable mind user would also work against other Verses, but mind control resistance through a strong will would not necessarily work against mind control from other Verses.

Equalization works highly on a case-by-case basis, so many relevant cases should be discussed in the versus thread itself.

 

[LightSShinning]

But like i said ask Assaltwaffle for more detail

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Yes, it would work on anyone. Altair's powers effected Sota, who is real even in the context of Re:CREATORS. Also pretty much the whole story is how fiction becomes reality. All the characters, despite being created, are still real. Their universes exist and can even be used to collapse the primary universe, they are just determined by the creative power of the creators.

Altair should not have any restriction in a VS thread.

 

[Hallowed_Ground_the_Man]

Yes, it would work on anyone. Altair's powers effected Sota, who is real even in the context of Re:CREATORS. Also pretty much the whole story is how fiction becomes reality. All the characters, despite being created, are still real. Their universes exist and can even be used to collapse the primary universe, they are just determined by the creative power of the creators.
Altair should not have any restriction in a VS thread.

I may be misremembering this, but how exactly did the Holopsicon affect Sota again?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Hallowed

She pulled him into Selesia's world and cut him with one of her sword projections.

 

[Hallowed_Ground_the_Man]

@Hallowed
She pulled him into Selesia's world and cut him with one of her sword projections.

That is a fair point. But is there a distinction between the Holopsicon and other powers Altair might possess, like manipulating her swords? Or is the Holopsicon the blanket term for all of Altair's powers? I was under the impression that it only referred to a subset of her powers, namely, those relating to manipulation of plot.

 

[RM97]

Holopsicon is literally the name of the entirety of Altair's powers. It's a conceptual powerset ideated by Setsuna but contributed by everyone who has perceived her, wrote stories and stuffs of her,etc. This consists of everything from her basic Telekinesis to her 66th movement Conceptual Absorption.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

That is correct. Even her basic constructs are facets of her Holopsicon, as evidenced by Altair realizing Sirius was capable of using it just by her halberd construct. She never used any movements, but Altair had evidence that the Holopsicon was used.

 

[Dragopentling]

Holopiscon can work on anyone, if not everyone in the same or similar tier (Low 2C to 2C). However, range will prevent her from affecting stuff 2B or beyond, or simply anyone with resistances to Law, Concept, or Plot Manipulation...or practically on a higher level of existence than her.

There's a reason why entitles like Khorne, Arceus, Madoka, and most "God" Digimons just straight up yeet on her. Heck, she's not even the strongest Low 2C character, from what I'm told.

 

[LightSShinning]

...........you do know that you am compare a Low 2C character with 2B and 2A one is like compare khorne with madoka and say that is "fair"

 

[Dragopentling]

...........you do know that you am compare a Low 2C character with 2B and 2A one is like compare khorne with madoka and say that is "fair"

if the man here was specifying "same or similarly tiered" characters to start off, then I wouldn't need to bring it up

 

[LightSShinning]

if the man here was specifying "same or similarly tiered" characters to start off, then I wouldn't need to bring it up

Then why on earth you compare high tier character agian low tier ,i be honest i find your compare really bad

 

[Dragopentling]

if the man here was specifying "same or similarly tiered" characters to start off, then I wouldn't need to bring it up

Then why on earth you compare high tier character agian low tier ,i be honest i find your compare really bad
Okay, my bad, but I mean, I could've made it worse, at least it was within Tier 2. I could've been just a big jerk and compared this to stuff like Gurren Lagann characters, the Toaru Majins, or the Cthulu Mythos Outer Gods.

But I rather not continue with that, cause someone's gonna be like "stop derailing the thread"

 

[LightSShinning]

Huh well is all fun and good no worries

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Depending on the Tier 2 character Altair may still stomp them. She'd completely body the Anti-Monitor, for example.

But no, she isn't the strongest Low 2-C. There are some stupidly overpowered characters even from Altair's perspective.

 

[Hallowed_Ground_the_Man]

That is correct. Even her basic constructs are facets of her Holopsicon, as evidenced by Altair realizing Sirius was capable of using it just by her halberd construct. She never used any movements, but Altair had evidence that the Holopsicon was used.

Ok, so let's change gears a little then. The conclusion is that all of Altair's powers are the Holopsicon, but there are "Movements of the Cosmos" that seem to be a subset of her powers, so not every power she has, like levitating swords, is strictly a Movement of the Cosmos. We know that Movement of the Cosmos are plot manipulation attacks, but should those be able to work on "non-fictional" characters (characters that are not "fictional" from the perspective of their home franchises)?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

They should, yes. Not all of her Movements are plot, as well. A lot are, but not all. As long as they have what is needed to be effected by the movements they should work.

For a VS match we'd equalize such powers anyway so that they would work.