Does Acausality Give One an Immunity/Resistance to Precognition?

[Warren_Valion]

Ok, so I was on this thread.

And in said thread, Wokista stated that The Warpiest would resist (or just be flat out immune to) Yhwach's Precog because he's Acausal, his reasoning was this:

"Causality refers to the nature of a cause and affect relationship. Being beyond this means that precognition cannot be assumed to accurately predict the futures of beings like this without proof, as predicting the future effects that will happen of something that sidesteps this issue entirely shouldn't work without confirmation."


I stated that this sounds like nonsense to me and I gave an example of why I believe him to be wrong:

"This still makes no sense to me.

"Causality refers to the nature of a cause and effect relationship."

Cause and effect.

If I go back to kill a person when they were a baby who also has Acausality. It means they are not dead in the present.

In simple terms, the Cause; the infanticide, does not have the intended Effect; having the person be erased from the timeline because you went back and killed them in the past.

The Past has no effect on the present and future.

How does that effect being able to see their future?

That is the literal opposite side of the temporal spectrum."


He responded,

"By viewing the future, you are viewing that which is the results of effects that can ordinarily be predicted by precog. When this is disrupted and as such cause and effect cannot be accurately predicted or even associated, precognition shouldn't really work that well. Feel free to make a thread about this though, I'm pretty sure that's how we do it."

And so I am making this thread about this topic.

TL;DR:


So...is Wokista right? Is Acausality some sort of Precog nullifier?

If so, can someone explain it to me in simpler detail, because I'm just not getting it?

My understanding and opinion of Wokista's words are that it is a ludicrously loose interpretation of how future timelines work to implement some sort of connection to a cause and effect relationship, which is therefore resisted/nulled by Acausality.

Which I believe to be false and I also question as to why this wouldn't be on the Acausality page if it was true?

Or at the very least mentioned.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Generally, it depends on how high end it is

 

[Warren_Valion]

Generally, it depends on how high end it is

Could you elaborate?

 

[Wokistan]

I obviously still stand by my claims, this is more here as a thing to confirm I was notified I guess

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Something like Yusei Fudo's acausality would be affected, while something like Lavos, whose existence is a middle finger to causality, wouldn't be affected

 

[Lancer45Man]

Well from what I know, it depends on how the Acausality works and how powerful the Precog is. IMO generally basic Precog cannot work on Acausals as their present actions are completely independent from what their future will show. However, if the Precog is so good that it can view an infinite number of possibilities for a character, then it can work against a basic Acausal beings.

 

[Antoniofer]

If is precog via future vision (not reading movements or the mind) then yes, Acausality or Fate Immunity makes someone immune to precog. Some examples are Raziel and The Fateless One.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Antoniofer

So Sharingan precog would work since it reads body movement while something like clairvoyance/future sight wouldn't.

 

[Archaron]

I think in the following way, time is like the internet, it registers everything that it wraps and it is placed in it, as if knowing precognition is the reading of the future of a being, area or something, and causality is naturally free from the actions recorded in the time, as one can foresee something that is free from the records of time, being the cause and effect, the present cause and the future effect.

 

[Antoniofer]

@AnonymousBlank, yes, pretty much that.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Something like Yusei Fudo's acausality would be affected, while something like Lavos, whose existence is a middle finger to causality, wouldn't be affected

This sounds like a difference in that one person has way more capabilities than the other, instead of having one's acausality be the reason for them to not be seen when gazing into the future.


How would being resistant to the effects of certain causes and actions mean that you will be blocked when an opponent looks to the future to see possibilities.

Causality is when one changes the past, it has a ripple effect on the present.

How would one in the present who is not being affected by those actions in the past aid in nullifying their presence in possible futures to those who can look in said futures?

Like I said, it is the literal opposite part of the temporal spectrum. Precognition deals with the future, not the past and present like Causality does.

I also don't understand why this isn't even mentioned in the Acausality page as a possible benefit some may possess.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Causality isn't the past, it's the overall force of cause and effect, which is required for precog to work properly

 

[Warren_Valion]

Umm... this is a quote from the definition of the Acausality page:

"Acausality is the ability to be unaffected by attacks reliant on cause and effect or changes to the past."

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Well I'm quoting causality, not acausality

 

[Warren_Valion]

Well I'm quoting causality, not acausality

The definition directly states that Acausality is to not be affected by Causality or changes to the past.

The "changes to the past" part of the definition is another way of defining what Causality is.

 

[Antoniofer]

Being acausual means that one is not bound to the typical cause and effect system, that's means if something happens that would lead to an specific result while it involve said character then is possible that the pre-selected result wouldn't happen.

In verses where fate/destiny is a thing one can't see effects caused by said character cuz its own causality is not bounded to it.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I think I see what you mean.

A being who is Acausal is unbound by time and therefore their possible futures are unbound by those who gaze in through time.

Is it something like that?


I feel that most examples of Acausality in fiction don't work in such a manner.

 

[Agnaa]

If is precog via future vision (not reading movements or the mind) then yes, Acausality or Fate Immunity makes someone immune to precog. Some examples are Raziel and The Fateless One.

SCP-682 has Acausality due to its past being unchangeable, that doesn't make it immune to precog though.

 

[Warren_Valion]

If is precog via future vision (not reading movements or the mind) then yes, Acausality or Fate Immunity makes someone immune to precog. Some examples are Raziel and The Fateless One.

The Fateless One does not have Acausality and is literally called The Fateless One. Obviously, he'd be immune to Precog.

 

[Antoniofer]

Having no fate or being immunity to it is a sub-power of acausality, is just a more specific type of it (rather than just cause and effect in general, is referring to the cause and effect written in destiny).

 

[JackJoyce]

Depends on the type of precognition. Eldrad's would not work. However Spider Ma or Goku can still use their's

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with Antoniofer that acausal beings should logically be immune to precogjition, but that does not mean that all fiction automatically handles it like that.

 

[Agnaa]

So SCP-682 has acausality based on it resisting causality manip and saying "Unlike you dancing shadows, my past was real and cannot be re-written, as much as I wish it were."

Do you two believe that SCP-682 should be immune to precognition because of this statement? Why or why not?

 

[Lancer45Man]

Past unable to be Unwritten doesn't mean Precog can't work. It just means no one can affect him in the past. Precog can definitely see into the future. But I have little knowledge on SCP verse so can't really say.

 

[Agnaa]

Past unable to be Unwritten doesn't mean Precog can't work. It just means no one can affect him in the past. Precog can definitely see into the future. But I have little knowledge on SCP verse so can't really say.

This is what I thought too, but Antoniofer and Antvasima are saying that all acausals should be logically immune to precognition. Which is a super strong statement.

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Depends on the wording, someone like Ultimate Madoka and Ultimate Kriemhild Gretche doesn't exist in the past, present and future in all across the Multiverse.

This type of Acausality should be able to shrugs of Precog.

 

[Kaltias]

Generally, it depends on how high end it is

^

For example, a character who is acausal via resisting paradox shenanigans wouldn't resist precog.

If you start reaching levels like "exist outside all the possibilities of the multiverse, beyond space-time" and similar stuff, precog wouldn't really work (If it's based on seeing the future)

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

Resisting paradox doesn't always guarantee Acausality anyway.

 

[Lancer45Man]

Resisting paradox doesn't always guarantee Acausality anyway.

^

 

[Lancer45Man]

Also Agnaa, I believe that would be Time Paradox Immunity for 682. Unless he has shown/stated to Transcend Causality or existing in the present only with no past or future.

 

[Kaltias]

@Homu

It does. TPI is low tier acausality.

 

[Lancer45Man]

IMO the Acausality page should be edited with different types like Type 1 for Time Paradox Immunity, Type 2 for Transcending Causality,etc. But that's just me.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

IMO the Acausality page should be edited with different types like Type 1 for Time Paradox Immunity, Type 2 for Transcending Causality,etc. But that's just me.

^This. When looking at the page, I found it so vague and it told me nothing I didn't already know/guess at.

 

[Agnaa]

Also Agnaa, I believe that would be Time Paradox Immunity for 682. Unless he has shown/stated to Transcend Causality or existing in the present only with no past or future.

I gave you the statement, he completely lolnoped the effects of this SCP, which when viewed, changes the past to one where the person who viewed it is and has always been a member of Foundation personnel.

If that is just "Time Paradox Immunity" that page and Acausality need some serious revisions.

 

[Kaltias]

That's textbook TPI. It's a SCP that alters the past to mess with the present.

The two pages do need revisions. The acausality page doesn't explain enough and the TPI page should be fused with it.

That's not the place to discuss it tho

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp,there's several types of acausality, including Paradox Defiance, Fate Immunity and even Law Immunity for high level acausality. But you are right, not all acasuality types makes someone immune to precog.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree that the acausality page needs to be expanded, and time paradox immunity listed as one version of it.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I agree with the general consensus.

The Acasuality page needs to be rewritten, and have different types and labels for the different types of acausality and the different benefits that one has with having that type of Acausality like being immune to standard Precog.

Something like what Homu Sweet Homu said about someone who doesn't exist in the past, present, and future in all across the Multiverse is a type of Acausality that can be immune to Precog, but that's a type of acausality and not everyone who has said ability has it in such manner.


Since this was a question and has been answered thoroughly, I believe this thread can be closed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.

 

[Agnaa]

Couldn't characters still have their precognition work on acausals by seeing the differences in the environment generated them?

Even if a character only exists in the present and not in the past or future, the results of their actions (dust being moved by their footsteps, wind going over their arm as they move it, etc) should still be in the future, and be knowable to someone with precog, right?

EDIT: Aren't there also true acausals that are omnipresent across time? Are they immune/resistant to precognition?