Warpriest vs Yhwach

5-C versions, Yhwach at his last key

Speed equal

Start at say 200m

In the Ascendant Plane, but not starting in Warpriest's throne world

Yhwach has abilities of the Sternritter

Fight in a mountain range because why not

The Warpriest: 2 (Hl3, Archaron)

Yhwach:

Inconclusive:

Law Manipulation + Acausality + Statistics Reduction = Yhwach cry.

I think that yhwach also has no means of fighting Regenerationn and all the immortalities of warpriest.

I mean aizen has low godly and he fought with him. Pretty sure ichigo also has some sort of Regen. Stat reduction also has to actually hit him.

Stat reduction gets the Almighty treatment like when Ichibe did it.

I have no idea what that means. Warpriests acausality prevents him from getting ****** over by all mighty, unless he's done that stuff to acausals.

Wokistan said:

I have no idea what that means. Warpriests acausality prevents him from getting ****** over by all mighty, unless he's done that stuff to acausals.

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The Almighty has nullification abilities.

The Almighty grants Yhwach the ability to know about everything he sees, for all powers he sees to take his side, to be immune to all powers he knows and not able to be defeated by such powers. And that is not all as he is able to see the future, the ability to steal powers and be able to give his Reiatsu to others.

Warpriest resists power null with and without the aura. Ik what the allmighty is, but precog and fate/causality manip need feats to work on acausals.

For the regen and immortalities, everything in Bleach spends its time killing other dead things, all Quincies have soul destruction, absorbtion should prove rather effective for circumventing most if not all of these.

Acausality doesn't interact with fate manipulation as one alters the future (Fate Manipulation) and the other is immunity to changes in the past (Acausality).

I am curious as to the extent of the Warpriest's Void, Law and Concept manipulation. All the other manipulations get ignored by Blut.

The Regenerationn of aizen is given to him in the hougyoku, which yhwach fought he was in a weaker form than his usual base without the hougyoku. The Almighty can not combat Conceptual and Law Manipulation, as that is where the warpriest powers come from.

The Oversoul is in another universe by default, and has all the resistances that the warpriest has. The immoralities can be circumvented by killing while he's doing something like standing right underneath it (what happens in game) but that also amps the warpriest quite a lot. It also still has those resistances to deal with. Also, his oversoul is a really dangerous weapon, as it's a fusion of taken blight and a traditional oversoul. Absorbing taken blight is not a good idea.

Well, yes and no. Depends on the degree. Ascendant hive are on a level beyond standard acausality. They once we're just regular old beyond typical cause and effect relationships, then the forerunners (I don't remember the actual name of the species but they were allegorical to these lol) developed weapons described as "paracausal". This caused issues for a while, then Oryx ascended and detatched himself even further. It can be assumed that when in an ascendant plane, other ascendant hive should exist on this level strangely removed from causality. In a bit I'll edit the OP to start in the ascendant plane but not the throne world, as it actually may make things fairer on Yhwach's end. You'll see in a bit. Other hive God's have stymed the Vex, who can do what Yhwach can but way better, because they're among the few things beyond Vex comprehension. I don't think Warpriest ever fought Vex though.

Whenever a guardian dies to WP, they can't respawn unless warpriest dies or they're a self rez sunsinger. Self rez is mid godly, base guardians are low godly due to the Ghosts (not literally) and regenning from physical Erasure. Law is primarily defensive in nature. His invulnerability is backed by the Sword Logic, a complicated topic that I need to make a blog on but can answer questions about. While his invulnerability is up, the guardians can't affect him in any way. The game pops up with "immune" instead of stuff like damage numbers. He can use it to kill as well, but that only really comes into play if Yhwach has gotten into the first stage of bypassing it. (More on that later). Concept is also tied to the sword logic, but with his Occulus he can use it offensively. His occulus is the taken oversoul I described above. To Take is to, among other things, warp and twist the very concepts of one's being. The Warpriest can't properly take like Oryx can, but he can still use it to obliterate foes while stealing their abilities. Void's not that special, he can shoot void projectiles.

In the next comment, the main way to kill this guy without some overwhelming lawhax of your own.

Wokistan said:

So basically, much of the power of the hive comes from the Sword Logic. Its pretty complicated, and I need to make a blog eventually, but what's relevant here is that by killing you can inheret your victim's power and thus all the power they've inherited from their kills, and if you're superior your law is as well. Warpriest is one of Oryx's oldest lieutenants, being probably billions of years old, and also one of the best. He was able to learn how to make Oversouls just by watching Crota for one thing. Due to his law he's immune to anything the Guardian can do until you do the raid mechanic to temporarily drop his invulnerability.

The reason this is even possible is due to how the Sword Logic works. The thing is, PC Guardians are one of the few things that can compare to a billions of years old hive god in terms of death because of the prep you've done for the raid. While the Guardian has definitely killed a lot of people over the course of the game, that alone wouldn't compare to WP who burns 585 worlds in a day. What does is the powerful entities you've felled. Consider Atheon. Consider Crota, the son of Oryx himself, who once singlehandedly slaughtered thousands of Guardians. Not only do you kill him, you even absorb his soul at a later date to become Ascendant. Before the Raid, Eris has you go around killing basically every notable hive or Taken left after Oryx retreats to the Ascendant Realm. There's 3 reasons for this:

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This is an explanation I gave cal on a way a verse wrote around hax. The question remains as to whether Yhwach can acrue such an absurd cumulative kill count like the Guardian did. Also, he still has to fight the Warpriest, and this allows Warpriest to use offensive lawhax. He retains many resistances as well. It just means that he will actually take damage from being hit and can die/get kicked back into throne world if you hit him enough.

Also. If the Warpriest dies in his throne world in the presence of his oversoul, he dies for good. His in mortalities and low godly mean naught to that, as that is the truest death for every hive god below Oryx and his sisters. If he's just in the ascendant plane, then he can respawn, but if Yhwach were to find his throne world and kill him there, where he is at his strongest, he has conclusively asserted his superiority and that he deserves to be part of the final shape, and thus Warpriest perma dies.

Lol, look at this much of text, wok recycling explanations :V

Hey if I already explained it somewhere I may as well

It's pretty funny how much he has just by having the status of Ascendant Hive when he's got so little grimoire and just a boss fight.

Welp, anyone who has relations with the ascending plane, has a conventional status of dimensionally above, probably in him the yhwach can not interact with warpriest (as you said, even ascending knights have a great status :v)

Yhwach can use Sternritter ability or nah?

What does that give him?

@Wok

Sternritter abilities listed according to their Schrifts (super special letters on their soul that gives them powers) alphabetically.

>The Balance

Causality Manipulation and Attack Reflection

>The Compulsory

Chi Manipulation, Earth Manipulation (He manipulates it with his nerves), Absorption (Can absorb information through his nerves to grow more powerful), Body Control, Duplication (from severed body parts), Reactive Evolution, Immortality (Type 3), Regenerationn (High-Mid)

>The Deathdealing

Poison Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Healing, Reactive Evolution, Regenerationn (Mid-Low)

>The Fear

Fear Manipulation

>The Heat

Fire Manipulation, Heat Manipulation

>The Iron

Statistics Amplification (specifically durability. Turned a Mountain+ into a Multi-Continent stonewall)

>The Jail

Can fire off Reishi constructs to forcibly close gateways between dimensions, or to entrap his opponents

>The Love

Empathic Manipulation (Targets hit fall in love with the user and he can then control them)

>The Miracle

Regenerationn (Low-Godly; Regenerates from the reishi around him), Immortality (Type 3 and 8), Resistant to Power Nullification, Reactive Power Level

>The Overkill

Basically Sword Logic (from what I understand of it) where killing more/stronger shit makes you stronger (Yhwach already runs on something like Sword Logic. Anything his soul has interacted with, when it dies, it joins him granting him all the skills and powers that soul possessed so its another amp to him killing shit)

>The Question

Self-Doubt Inducement (Just makes the target question what they know n' stuff. Requires the user to talk but Yhwach gave himself a voice by ripping out his own throat so ... ignore this power really unless you can think of a use for it)

>The Roar

Transformation and Sound Manipulation (He turns ape like and shouts really loud. Pretty sucky all things considered)

>The Superstar

Statistics Amplification and Regenerationn (If anyone cheers for Yhwach, he gets stronger and regens. The louder/more they cheer, the more effective. A true anime power that makes even the Roar useful)

>The Visionary

Reality Warping, Regenerationn, Elemental Manipulation, Limited Death Manipulation, Duplication

>The Wind

Spatial Manipulation (Anything he is aware of can be warped. Almighty precog makes this very, very useful)

>The X-Axis

Durability Negation with instant attack speed. Intangibility (is always on. It is also intangible to a bunch of people/ghosts who spend their time interacting with ghosts), Teleportation, Regenerationn (Low-High), Immortality (Type 3), Light Manipulation, Duplication

>The Yourself

Shapeshifting and copies the personality and memories of his target.

>The Yourself

Power Mimicry, Shapeshifting

So Yhwach is... well, he's uh ... he's pretty broken all things considered. Each point is the abilities he gets from one of the Sternritter so forgive me if any of them overlap.

Conclusion

Whatever Yhwach thinks of becomes real.

If he can't output enough "thought power" he can make duplicates to multiply his output by the total number of hims.

These clones can cheer really loud to make him even stronger.

Any or all of these Yhwachs can copy the powers, memories and personalities of the Warpriest.

Almost impossible to hit since Omni precog + fate manip + warping what he is aware of + constant intangibility that is intangible to intangibles + Blut Vene + Iron = ultimate stonewall.

Even if you do manage to somehow hit him, any part cut off causes a new him to spawn anyway. Contact with any of these will have his nerves invade you and copy your powers (there is still time to rip off the invaded limb to stop the nerves. granted the time is barely a second even for the readers). Nerves can invade non-living/organic materials and also move through the air

Anything/damage that happens to Yhwach can instantly be reflected to the enemy while regening him to be stronger.

If he intakes/is exposed to enough of a substance, he can change how poisonous it is to him or anyone in his vicinity, basically becoming immune to it and crippling the enemy (eg. radiation in sunlight, or gases in air, or vitamin C, or the reishi all quincies manipulate like nobodies business etc.). Give him a minute and he will make any energy or substance based attack useless.He can make things hotter the more fingers he uses (Seriously, that is how one of the Schrifts work).

He will paralyse everything around with Fear and make them go mad (this cannot be blocked as the pleb version bypasses any barriers as the Fear substance leaks out/through whatever blocked the medium and the boss version works based on sight, yours or his, it doesn't matter).

He has instantaneous EE attacks that can only be aimdoged but lulz precog GG (there was one weapon that could reflect it but it hard countered the X-Axis so perfectly that even the most diehard Bleach fans/supporters couldn't deny the sheer asspull that was this sword).

This is all in addition to what he already does.

Note: I didn't bother with The Question because its trash. Even The Roar had a use in conjunction with cloning and The Superstar.

Aren't those generally things he doesn't in character use? I thought he had them and just never used them or something. Everything also needs to get past lawhax to deal damage btw.

Wokistan said:

Aren't those generally things he doesn't in character use? I thought he had them and just never used them or something. Everything also needs to get past lawhax to deal damage btw.

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You are right, he doesn't use them in-character, but you can make so he will use them.

I mean resistances aren't exactly something you turn off. If I am to challenge the fastest 5-C speed equal, I should probably let him have them. Give me a second to read through it to make sure the match stays fair, and if it does I shall allow it.

The Balance: Acausality counters causality. Attack reflection works fine on stuff like his gun, but aggressively homing projectiles would seem to hit him eventually. Also some stuff doesn't travel.

The Compulsory: How good's reactive evolution? Nothing else seems too relevant.

The Deathdealing: Poison's a resistance he has I forgot about. I'll get it added with like a minor CRT, but I can also just pull up the proof here if you're skeptical. Deathhax is blocked by type 5. Hive Gods store their deaths in their oversouls. How good's reactive evolution?

The Fear: Fear manip is probably not the most helpful thing against the Hive in general, Sword Logic and all. If he was somehow scared, this makes him more likely to just obliterate Yhwach from the start anyways.

The Heat: ok


The Iron: Too bad they're moon level lol

The Jail: They're already in the Ascendant Realm, and I really don't see Yhwach being able to manipulate that better than a billions of years old Hive God.

The Love: Funny enough, to the Hive love and death are literally the same. Oryx expressed his love for his sisters by all 3 of them killing one another for 20,000 years. If this worked, this would basically just bloodlust Warpriest. That being said, I don't really think it would work, as the Sword Logic functions as a 4D/possibly 5D empathic manip as is. Doesn't give Warpriest empathic manip on that level, but stuff kinda has to bypass that to work.

The Miracle: Power null resist helps as I don't believe the Guardian resisted. However, he can already kill low godlies for good.

The Overkill: uhh not quite, I really need to make a blog at some point. It definitely doesn't override Warpriest.

The Question: I don't really know lol

The Roar: rip

The Visionary: Couldn't he already do all that?

The Wind: I feel like a resistance to void manip should cover this. This can be argued though.

The X axis: At the very least, Occulus should override intangibility. Other stuff is debatable. How does the durability negation work?

The Yourself: Not sure how helpful this is. Also power copying sword logic screws Yhwach over due to how it works, as does copying Taken power.

Precog cannot be assumed to work on acausals.

Many things have no travel time and are homing.

EE is resisted.

Everything else I believe I covered.

Wokistan said:

Precog cannot be assumed to work on acausals.

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What?

How does not being affected by the past help stop someone from seeing into his future? That makes no sense.

Acausals don't have an immunity to Precog, they aren't affected by causality. Those are completely different powers.

Causality refers to the nature of a cause and affect relationship. Being beyond this means that precognition cannot be assumed to accurately predict the futures of beings like this without proof, as predicting the future effects that will happen of something that sidesteps this issue entirely shouldn't work without confirmation.

Wokistan said:

I mean aizen has low godly and he fought with him. Pretty sure ichigo also has some sort of Regen. Stat reduction also has to actually hit him.

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Aizen didn't have the Hogyoku when he fought Yhwach.

this is basically Sword Logic ftw vs Versatility with a moustache, but i'd say that WP wins with some difficulty via:

>the fact that he'll be difficult to damage, although if Yhwach earns his respect this will be moot for a while

>the large amount of potent hax (not as much as Yhwach, but far more potent iirc)

>the fact that WP isn't stupid and will probably just take Yhwach if he starts actually losing

>the fact that most of Yhwach's hax gets nulled by the Oversoul

>and CIS on Yhwach's end making him not start with stuff that could actually hurt WP, although this is also a problem for WP, just nowhere near as debilitating

Wokistan said:

Causality refers to the nature of a cause and affect relationship. Being beyond this means that precognition cannot be assumed to accurately predict the futures of beings like this without proof, as predicting the future effects that will happen of something that sidesteps this issue entirely shouldn't work without confirmation.

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This still makes no sense to me.

"Causality refers to the nature of a cause and effect relationship."

Cause and effect.

If I go back to kill a person when they were a baby who also has Acausality. It means they are not dead in the present.

In simple terms, the Cause; the infanticide, does not have the intended Effect; having the person be erased from the timeline because you went back and killed them in the past.

The Past has no effect on the present and future.


How does that effect being able to see their future?

That is the literal opposite side of the temporal spectrum.

By viewing the future, you are viewing that which is the results of effects that can ordinarily be predicted by precog. When this is disrupted and as such cause and effect cannot be accurately predicted or even associated, precognition shouldn't really work that well. Feel free to make a thread about this though, I'm pretty sure that's how we do it.

Wokistan said:

By viewing the future, you are viewing that which is the results of effects that can ordinarily be predicted by precog. When this is disrupted and as such cause and effect cannot be accurately predicted or even associated, precognition shouldn't really work that well. Feel free to make a thread about this though, I'm pretty sure that's how we do it.

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I will.

Cool, post it here. People knowledgeable on verses that heavily feature stuff like acausality and precog are probably your best bet. There's also an explicit precog resistance feat, but idk if it should apply to Warpriest.

Yare yare, you guys, please, not defocus the fight, I think we all come to the conclusion that yhwach without the other powers he loses to the warpriest, I think we already have 2 votes counting on mine.

I gave him the other powers, as I'm trying to challenge the strongest 5-C spot after all.

Also a discussion about how acausality affects precog is actually relevant considering precog is one of Yhwach's biggest boons.

The Balance: You get it wrong. The balance is an ability to control any misfortune that occurs within his sphere of influence. All the "misfortune" that would occur to Yhwach personally is redirected into his Freund Schild; consequently, all "good fortune" that The Warpriest experiences in inflicting wounds upon him will be wreaked back upon them in equal magnitude as "misfortune", and the "misfortune" that he experiences merely gets deflected and absorbed into his Freund Schild, causing his opponent to experience even more "misfortune". In short, any damage/misfortune Warpriest will cause to him will be absorbed into his Freund Schild and thus leave him unharmed and Warpriest will suffer equal magnitude of misfortune as what he did to Yhwach, and remeber his Freund Schild who absorb Yhwach misfortune? that misfortune inside his Freund Schild will be reflected back at Warpriest thus cause him to suffer even more misfortune.

In addition the Balance attack reflection doesn't travel as well. it just appear in your body and due to its nature of controling "misfortune" the Balance is not just Attack reflection since it also has offensive capabilityas well And Even if his attack reflection won't work. Yhwach can still use his Freund Schild to absorb any misfortune that occur to him thus it will be very hard to damage him.

The Compulsory: I think I can just copy paste my comment on other thread:

The Compulsory is ability to manipulate its user nerves and extend them to invade the bodies of opponents and control their movements and since it has invade and control its target movements The Compulsory can use its target own muscles to twisting and tearing limbs apart or even tear their bodyto pieces

The Compulsory can also be imbue to surroundingenvironment andHeilig Pfeil and if its nerves touch Gil, even if Yhwach fail to kill him with The Compulsory, the nerves can absorb the information from Gil biology(this works on shinigami who is a walking soul and not made from physical matter) to evolveand gain their Strength and special ability from their biology.

The Fear: You also get it wrong. The Fear is an ability that will cause victims to doubt everything, lose control of all rational thought, and see visions of their deepest fears. in exteme case The fear can literally instant kill its taget because their heart being unable to bear such intense shock and fear, you can see its effect on Byakuya in:

HereHereHereHereHereHere

Bear in mind byakuya has resistant to mind attack from resisted the effect of Book of the End who can cause its target to mentally broken since they couldn't differentiate reality since they were mentally rearranged.

So in short The Fear will also cause Warpriest to be unable to focus in his attack, lose his rational thought and can cause him to be paralyzed in fear too

HereHereHereHere

Take a note from the scans above. Rukia can one shots As nodt if she use her bankai, yet she dont use her bankai not until Byakuya come and calm her down because as I said above the Fear will cause its fictim to lose control of all rational thought thus she wont use her bankai against him because she has become too scared to As nodt despite using bankai in such situation is a rational action to do.

The Iron: Ok but Tier 7-A The Iron can casually wistant High 6-A attack

The Question: The Question is an ability to make you Question your own ability, kinda like the Fear, minus it wont make you scared to Yhwach. Although we don't see exactly how this ability take effect due of this

The Wind: Ehh The Wind is Spatialmanipulation It can also work on Physical, Ranged and AoE attack too. plus The Wind has passive Spartial defence as well, it can also be used to attack.

The X axis: Dunno about that since X axis is untouchable by shinigami who can interact with intangibility object. How is X axis durability negation work? simple it simply pierceseverything between the muzzleand the target

The Visionary: What do you mean? The Visionary can be useful here since Yhwach can use it to clone himself(up to 6 new clones) these clones is as powerful as the original and his clones can double his power too, plus Yhwach can use The Visionary to erase his death too and if all else fail, he can BFR him.

Oh yeah in addition with the The Visionary Gremmy can created Guenael Lee too, his power Vanishing Point

Vanishing Point: It has 3 version(he can use all 3 of them at once) Version 1 causes Guenael's "appearance" to vanish, thereby turning him invisible. Even Shinigami who can see and sense invisible being cannot see nor sense him at all.

Version 2 causes his "existence" to vanish, causing him to become completely intangible. When using this version, he leaves behind an afterimage that can act as a decoy, giving opponents the impression that their attacks have landed.

Version 3 causes Guenael's existence to vanish from within the minds of others, causing them to forget that he ever existed.

So it basically grant you Physical Nonexistence with Version 2 and Mental Nonexistence with Version 3, with all 3 version of it active. Warpriest will unable to see, touch nor even remeber Yhwach existance since he doesn't exist and unlike Guenael who still relied to pysical attack to attack his target thus he cannot stay at Version 2 forever, Yhwach has several method of attack without relied on physical attack, such as X axis for example since X axis literally doesn't fire anything. in adition Yhwach can use Vanishing Slider to momentarily react with a speed that surpasses his opponent reaction speed

Last but not least

The Almighty: First thing first, Yhwach will use The Almighty fate manip on himself thus this kinda bypass Warpriest acausals since Yhwach wont try to overide Warpriest fate, intead Yhwach will overide his own fate. For example like what he does to Ichigo when he chose to break IchigoBankaiand hor through the future, he also can use The Almighty to teleporthimself as if he already there, or when Yhwach rewrite his own Future in which he is die and he can do this after he has been killed, in addition even if his opponent can somewhat block his attack he can change the future to where his own attack has landed and thus bypassing his opponent ability to block his attack

The Almighty powernull is also potent enough to overcome:


-Conceptual manipulation who erase his name and power Note. Ichibe already erase his name and power and change his name to Black Ant thus rendered him to be as powerless as Ant before Yhwach can use the The Almighty. Yet that dont take away his ability to use The Almighty and powernull ichibe concept hax after he use The Almighty.

-Causality manipulation who can reject events

-And Mix of Existence erasure and concept/powernull hax Note: Ichibei is conceptually control all black in the universes(Thats why Yhwach power steal dont work on him) and those who touch his black ink will have their name and power erased.

Oh yeah speaking of power steal. Yhwach can use Sankt Altar to steal his power and he will use Sankt Altar against opponent with troublesome ability. At this point Yhwach has all three Power null, Power mimicry and Power steal.

In conclusion even if Yhwach cannot put him down..how Warpriest will put him down either? He has so many defensive ability such as Intangibility(untouchable by shinigami who can touch Intangibility being), control misfortune and good fortune, passive Fear hax who can paralyzed him in place, passive spartial defence who can render his attack useless, can rewrite his own death after he already die or he can use The Visionary to erase his death too, and with Vanishing Point Warpriest wont even remeber his existence nor can he see or touch him.

Why is the sternreitter's abilities a factor here when he's never used them in character?

He will if OP said so.

no that's not how it works. Unless he's bloodlusted, he's never going to use them in character. Yhwach already had their powers when he fought ichigo and aizen yet he never bothered to use them.

He don't need to be bloodlusted Op only need to said he can use them