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Doctor Who Top Tiers Revisions

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Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot

VS Battles
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So a while back, many of Doctor Who's top tiers were scaled to a being known as Saraquazel. However, we deleted the page and did away with the scaling because it contradicted major cornerstones of the whole verse and didn't really make any sense. Looking back on it, Saraquazel is completely legitimate; the problem came from the scaling itself being done poorly.

Allow me to explain.

"Consciousness had returned piecemeal, a jumble of confused impressions and garbled sensations that dripped into Saraquazel's waking mind. The first thing that he noticed was an inability to move, but any concerns that this might have caused were immediately overridden by the awareness that he no longer possessed a body. The journey through the emboitement had transformed his natural form ― a comfortable flux of matter and energy that lapped backwards and forwards across all of the twenty-seven dimensions around him ― into a rigid lattice of mental energy served by a paltry eleven. He was capable of a tortured awareness, but was unable to physically influence the world around him."

Saraquazel is a being that comes from the after-universe, which is the reality that exists after the destruction of the current one. Saraquazel's reality has 27 dimensions, whereas the current reality only has 11. When entering the current universe, Saraquazel is compressed into an 11-dimensional entity.

The initial problem was the fact that virtually everyone was scaled to Saraquazel being 27-D due to The Great Intelligence being roughly comparable (though notably weaker), and at one point merging with him. However, this was with the compressed 11-D Saraquazel, not its full 27-D form. Regardless, this still gives us some good ways to scale things.

Who scales to 27-D Saraquazel?

Not many characters, honestly. Saraquazel's true form is by its very nature superior to everything native to the current reality. Obviously, The Glory is superior, but it is already High 1-B.

Most notably, this would affect The Grace, as they occupy a state of "non-existence" which is superior to the rest of the DW multiverse's time and space. This would make them 1-B, as they would be superior to Saraquazel and the other 27-D beings of its reality.

There are some other characters this possibly scales to, though reasons could be made both for and against. This would be The Guardians (we currently have pages for the Black Guardia, White Guardia, The Celestial Toymaker, and The Six-Fold God. Would also apply to Key To Time). I will briefly describe why this could or could not apply to them.

For: The Guardians are repeatedly treated as some of the strongest beings in the verse, and shown to hold incredible power. They are the greatest of the Great Old Ones.

Against: The best feats we have from GOOs on their own would be 11-D. The combined form of the Guardians, the Six-Fold God, is defined as the embodiment of the six dimensions above the normal 5-D multiverse, which means their reach may not stretch into Saraquazl's "after-universe".

Who scales to 11-D Saraquazel?

First off, in the confines of the story, we get confirmation of the Great Intelligence being on this version of Saraquazel's same level of existence. This would make all higher-end Great Old Ones High 1-C. This includes characters such as The Great Intelligence itself, The Carnival Quee, and Fenric. Also adds good further proof to the Menti Celesti and Quantum Archangel.

Thoughts are appreciated.
 
If it scales to the Quantum Archangel, well TARDISes can scale too.

Also, it should be noted that aside for their special warheads, The Chronovores are extremely above The Time Lords, should we upgrade them or put them at "likely much higher?"
 
@Fan

I don't think The Quantum Archangel can scale to the 27-D stuff, she became one with Lux Aeterna, which was explicitly stated to be 11-D
 
Ultima Reality said:
@Fan
I don't think The Quantum Archangel can scale to the 27-D stuff, she became one with Lux Aeterna, which was explicitly stated to be 11-D
Okay
 
I am personally fine with scaling The Grace to 27-D Saraquazel, but not the Guardians, given that they have been explicitly stated to be 11-D.
 
There is a huge amount of inconsistency in DW Universe.


For example:


Based on this quote Time Vortex is infinite dimensional and every one who is on the same level with Time Lords should be High 1-B at least.


"Imagine, if you will, a vortex. A really powerful vortex that drags into itself

anything that comes into its trajectory. A vortex made up of an infinite

number of well, levels for want of a better description."


But on the other hand:


╩╗I╩╝m not sure about the technicalities. In layman╩╝s terms the TARDIS removes itself from Minkowski space, then integrates itself into a fifth dimension. It travels through something called the Vortex, a transdimensional spiral built by the Doctor╩╝s people which encompasses all points in space and time. Then, the TARDIS just reorientates itself at the other end, and reestablishes a plasmic real-world interface.╩╝
 
Hmmm. This may be a controversial or plain herculean request, but is it possible one links in a blog all references to "dimensions" and dimensionality in Doctor Who?

Anyways, I want to make it clear Lamprays, Eternals, Chronovores, Guardians, etc are vastly superior to the Time Lords and the TLs absolutely fear them, so them being above the TLs would not be inconsistent.
 
FanofRPGs said:
If it scales to the Quantum Archangel, well TARDISes can scale too.
Also, it should be noted that aside for their special warheads, The Chronovores are extremely above The Time Lords, should we upgrade them or put them at "likely much higher?"
Not really. A single War TARDIS is able to one-shot a group Chronovores.


There is only 1 vague statement to put Chronovores above Time Lords:


Once the Chronovores have left the Earth a

desiccated husk, where next? Wherever she creates these

alternate realities, the Divine Host will follow.' He threw a

hand in the air. 'Skaro, Telos, Gallifrey, even. This has to

stop.'

'It cannot be stopped. No one in this reality can stand

before the Divine Host and survive.'
 
I also agree with The Grace scaling to 1-B. However im uncertain about the Guardians (Six-Fold God).
 
So going by current consensus, the upgrades would yield:

  • 1-B Grace
  • High 1-C strong Great Old Ones
  • Further justification for High 1-C Menti Celesti, Quantum Archangel, and things that scale to them and the GOOs
 
I concur with Azzy's suggestions. Also, I am in the process of creating a blog relating to the Doctor Who cosmology and other Doctor Who-related things. Hopefully that will clear up any confusion relating to why we scale things the way they are.

Also, now may be a good time for me to mention that the Gods of Ragnarok caused and survived the Timestation explosion that destroyed the Old Time, a universe existing before the current one, with its own Daleks, Time Lords, and whatnot. The GoR were also once Guardians, and the Land of Fiction, a realm they created and discarded, could not be penetrated by the Black Guardian at his peak in "The Well-Mannered War." Is this info sufficient to upgrade the GoR to High 1-C?
 
If the GoR completely destroyed the previous incarnations of the Daleks, Time Lords, and their old universe, I don't see why not.
 
Okay. I will ask Azathoth to reply here then.
 
Okay. Thanks. Should we close this thread then?
 
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