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Doctor Who (Hopefully Final) Revisions

Wasn't it agreed doc with the key should have all guardian powers but never added?

How about this?

(With the key to time, the doctor gains all the powers of the guardians of time except those based on physiology, including Reality Warping, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2), Soul Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Telepathy, Telekinesis, Spatial Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Fusionism, Mind Manipulation, Causality Manipulation Magic, Physics Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Void Manipulation, BFR, Chaos Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Technology Manipulation, Illusion Creation, Dream Manipulation, Invulnerability, Attack Reflection, Forcefield Creation, Memory Manipulation, Power Nullification, Biological Manipulation, Transmutation, Sealing, Immersion, Power Bestowal, Life & Death Manipulation)

Life and death Manip is due to gold guardian
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
But like the De-Mat gun, which he still has, is fine? Makes sense
Click to expand...
There's a difference. He actually used it to erase someone from existence (albeit, as Lord President) and its use was extremely prominent, marking the first appearance of a de-mat gun in a very well known episode Doctor Who. He's even used similar weapons, such as the Dalek de-mat gun, against non-humanoid opponents.

In one comic line created before The End of Time, he creates a large scale de-mat gun to erase an entire population and the Time Lords. This was retconned by The Day of the Doctor, however.

Also, the Key to Time should probably be another section on his page entirely.

@FanofRPGs Isn't the Key to Time the culmination of all their powers?
 
Why would the key need to be his own section if the doctor beating the black guardian is due to a combination of the key and his TARDIS?

A feat I honestly think we should credit to the key and not the TARDIS since guardians are faaaar above beings who can destroy TARDIS defenses
 
When? If you're talking about The Armageddon Factor, I'm pretty sure that was the Key being dispersed. Also, the page doesn't even have a TARDIS section any more.

The TARDIS' regular defences and Eye of Harmony.
 
The TARDIS' defenses keeping out a guardian seems odd for multiple reasons.

The TARDIS got breached by Sutekh in pyramids of mars, and the TARDIS could only fight him with the eye of Horus.

The celestial Toymaker shut off the TARDIS with a fingersnap in his first appearance.

The key probably could've been used further, the doctor just chose to destroy it again.

Also why WAS the TARDIS section removed?

Vehicle sections of tons of other profiles exist
 
Sutekh was never portrayed as being equal to the Guardians in Pyramids of Mars. Also, The Doctor never said he had all of his defences active. During the Quantum Archangel, The Doctor defeated the titular character in conjunction with The Master.

I've explained this point so many times; Defences/Spatial Manipulation > Eye of Harmony.

Also, the TARDIS has blocked attacks from BG twice, Animus and the Great Intelligence.

Because it already has a page. It's completely redundant as another section, a link in standard equipment is more than enough.
 
I know Sutekh is inferior to guardians. I was saying if he can **** over the TARDIS defenses guardians breaching it makes no sense

The TARDIS scaling to regular elder gods like Animus and Fenric is fine, but blocking out the black guardian should be either credited to the key or deemed an outlier, given that guardians are superior to the TARDIS
 
I didn't say that. I said he didn't breech (in this case, make a mental projection through) the TARDIS' full defences. In Doctor Who, there have been tons of things capable of doing the same, such as Racnos teleportation, Einstein's portals, etc.

No. It's not even an outlier to begin with and was directly credited to the TARDIS' full defences.

Since when?
 
Oh? I didn't claim it someone else did. Never mind about the weeping angels thing.

Why is it not an outlier when if that's the case was why the TARDIS on its own not enough to bea the black guardian and the Toymaker?
 
(A) Defences =/= Power. (B) Because it only defeated the Quantum Archangel in conjunction with The Master's War TARDIS (their two plasmic shells were also fused) when she didn't have the Mad Mind of Bophemeral acting as her personal super computer. (C) He almost never uses that in combat, and it's portrayed as the most powerful thing he can do with the TARDIS.
 
Defense not equaling power is true most of the time, but the TARDIS defenses come from forcefields created by its own abilities rather than natural defense. So if we go by that logic, the TARDIS should have conceptual manipulation, especially since the TARDIS thing actually effected the black guardian.
 
So do most spaceships in fiction, and they can generally take hundreds of attacks comparable to their weapons. The TARDIS (possibly) has only changed his colour, just affecting something isn't always conceptual manipulation.
 
That's fine and fairly consistent, from what I remember.
 
Can the TARDIS remain unaffected by changes to time?
 
I know what it means, but existing all across time doesn't automatically mean it has Acausality. If a character exists across all of space-time and can be affected by changes to history, they don't have it.

Ok, are you going to give me evidence?
 
"Characgers with this type of Acausality are incredibly difficult to kill, as other versions of themselves - from other points in time and/or from other universes - can survive the destruction of the original and act in their place" This is exactly what the TARDIS existing all over time is
 
It exists across all time, but that doesn't automatically mean it has Acausality, that's just one of the types. For example, there are many characters in fiction who specifically in the 5th dimension above time, and yet they're affected by time travel. It actually has to resist changes to time, and the TARDIS has been affected by temporal paradoxes and spatial manipulation on multiple occasions.
 
Type 3 Acausality is different than normal acausality. We have types for a reason.

Also what does spatial manipulation even have to do with Acausality?
 
You missed the edit.

Because space-time are part of the two temporal dimensions in Doctor Who.
 
Type 3 Acausality refers to having back up copies across time who could act in your place. Like if you destroy them in the present, their past self will notice and attack you so it doesent die
 
Yes, and in many cases in fiction all these copies cease to exist due to changes in time. Also, that's not even how it works in this case, the TARDIS exists all across time as one point.

Existing across time-space isn't a qualifier. The character actually has to be resistant to changes in time. Can you provide feats supporting the TARDIS withstanding changes to time? I wouldn't be surprised if it could, considering TARDISes are implied to have a similar nature to the Time Vortex and are made of maths.
 
That doesn't mean the TARDIS didn't change. It existed before The Doctor was even born. If you're referring to The Doctor still using it to travel, he can still be affected by changes in time, he's just resistant, so it's likely the White Guardian was protecting him in some way or the changes in time hadn't taken full effect.

I think it's the latter because his personal time stream was intact, with The Doctor even finding his first incarnation's TARDIS manual. He even talks to his Sixth incarnation on Earth, who implies he never left Gallifrey.
 
Yes, and other powers

Kendra: I don't understand...Look at it, everything's changed. Leela: All of the buildings, they are golden, rich like the clothes that people were wearing. ... PC Joyce: I...I don't understand, the whole city's become... Doctor: Rewritten according to the design of Sutekh. PC Joyce: The Khepri guards, they've changed to, all bandaged like mummies. Doctor: Osiran servicer robots. PC Joyce: How is this possible? Sutekh (Announcing by speakers): Welcome to the new age. Welcome to the New Phaester Osiris. Welcome to the age of Sutekh!

Transmutation

Lord Mortega: This is the timeship Istharati. ... Do I have permision to board?

...

Sutekh: Your presencce will no longer be tolerated here.

Telepathy SFX. TARDIS is buffeted.

Mortega: Sutekh! Sutekh: You will return to your people. If you remain then you will be destroyed along with all the other blasphemers.

BFR

Tut: What happened to the storm? Sutekh: Am I not Lord of the Dust? Simple stuff, it is almost beneath me to control it.

Weather manipulation

Sutekh: Your soul is ripe. Like a fine wine. To consume it will be almost a pity. And yet...

Can eat souls


Alyx: Sutekh, my every breath has been for you. Sutekh: And I end life with the passing of my breath. (Breathes, and Alyx dies)

Death manipulation


Sutekh: Why do you run from me child? There is nowhere on this world beyond the reach of my arm, beyond my caress Ace: Stay back or I'll- Sutekh: Shoot me? (Laughter) Is that your only weapon? Ace: For now, we're humans. We use what we have, we do all we can. (shots) Sutekh: (Chuckles) Ace: Just once, just once, I'd like that to work.

Teleportation

Ace: It's a time storm! Sutekh's ripping up a time storm!

...

Bernice: Sutekh has take over his body. Pulled him back in time.

... I've met him already on a pyramid on Mars.


Temporal BFR
 
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