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Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers inbound)

a3gejhcad0z81.jpg
 
www.marvel.com

How ‘Loki’ Led Us to the ‘Multiverse of Madness’

It was the death of He Who Remains on the Disney+ original series presenting the ‘Doctor Strange’ sequel with its challenges when Strange cast that spell.
www.marvel.com www.marvel.com

"There’s a slight difference between alternate timelines and alternate realities, but they do intersect, and they end up being one and the same,” shared Palmer. “Our characters wouldn’t have been able to interact with them, definitely not in the way that they did in Spider-Man: No Way Home and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.”

I think this is the first direct acknowledgement about timelines and realities not being the same thing, even if they ultimately end up being used as the same thing. It's at least a way they could use to explain the contradictions between the Doctor Strange and Loki/MoM.

Although

“At that moment, the Multiverse expanded indefinitely forward into the future, back into the past, sideways, left and right, to alternate realities we can’t even comprehend,” continued Palmer. “If it wasn’t for Sylvie, we wouldn’t be here right now.”

Implies that in a way, in the current structure is as if the multiverse always existed.
 
Executor_N0 said:
www.marvel.com

How ‘Loki’ Led Us to the ‘Multiverse of Madness’

It was the death of He Who Remains on the Disney+ original series presenting the ‘Doctor Strange’ sequel with its challenges when Strange cast that spell.
www.marvel.com www.marvel.com

"There’s a slight difference between alternate timelines and alternate realities, but they do intersect, and they end up being one and the same,” shared Palmer. “Our characters wouldn’t have been able to interact with them, definitely not in the way that they did in Spider-Man: No Way Home and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.”

I think this is the first direct acknowledgement about timelines and realities not being the same thing, even if they ultimately end up being used as the same thing. It's at least a way they could use to explain the contradictions between the Doctor Strange and Loki/MoM.

Although

“At that moment, the Multiverse expanded indefinitely forward into the future, back into the past, sideways, left and right, to alternate realities we can’t even comprehend,” continued Palmer. “If it wasn’t for Sylvie, we wouldn’t be here right now.”

Implies that in a way, in the current structure is as if the multiverse always existed.
Click to expand...
That was always the implication

Time isn't linear so it makes more sense that it always existed but only recently converged due to Sylvie's actions outside of time
 
Executor_N0 said:
www.marvel.com

How ‘Loki’ Led Us to the ‘Multiverse of Madness’

It was the death of He Who Remains on the Disney+ original series presenting the ‘Doctor Strange’ sequel with its challenges when Strange cast that spell.
www.marvel.com www.marvel.com

"There’s a slight difference between alternate timelines and alternate realities, but they do intersect, and they end up being one and the same,” shared Palmer. “Our characters wouldn’t have been able to interact with them, definitely not in the way that they did in Spider-Man: No Way Home and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.”

I think this is the first direct acknowledgement about timelines and realities not being the same thing, even if they ultimately end up being used as the same thing. It's at least a way they could use to explain the contradictions between the Doctor Strange and Loki/MoM.

Although

“At that moment, the Multiverse expanded indefinitely forward into the future, back into the past, sideways, left and right, to alternate realities we can’t even comprehend,” continued Palmer. “If it wasn’t for Sylvie, we wouldn’t be here right now.”

Implies that in a way, in the current structure is as if the multiverse always existed.
Click to expand...
We may take what we can from this, but it comes of as beyond stupid. There was no "activation of the Multiverse"/"reactivation of the Multiverse", the Multiverse was already a thing in Dr. Strange, which happened before the Loki show in the Loki show as events from after it were shown on a screen and that Loki came from a timeline messed by the heroes from after Dr. Strange 1. If alt. realities are for example those from which each Spider-Man come from and alt. timelines are what we see in Loki then he should not have said "At that moment, the Multiverse expanded indefinitely forward into the future, back into the past, sideways, left and right, to alternate realities", he should know well that he those were alt. timelines, meaning that he either made a mistake in the sense that he meant timelines or made a mistake in the sense that he forgot about the multiverse, Dark Dimension and other-dimensional beings established in Dr. Strange.

If alt. timelines and realities aren't the same in the MCU then fine, good, that the worldbuilding for it is super dumb doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but this is still one guy applying what he believes to everything by his own views. Others will do the same and there is no telling if it was intended in the way he thinks (It's not).
 
Eficiente said:
We may take what we can from this, but it comes of as beyond stupid. There was no "activation of the Multiverse"/"reactivation of the Multiverse", the Multiverse was already a thing in Dr. Strange, which happened before the Loki show in the Loki show as events from after it were shown on a screen and that Loki came from a timeline messed by the heroes from after Dr. Strange 1. If alt. realities are for example those from which each Spider-Man come from and alt. timelines are what we see in Loki then he should not have said "At that moment, the Multiverse expanded indefinitely forward into the future, back into the past, sideways, left and right, to alternate realities", he should know well that he those were alt. timelines, meaning that he either made a mistake in the sense that he meant timelines or made a mistake in the sense that he forgot about the multiverse, Dark Dimension and other-dimensional beings established in Dr. Strange.

If alt. timelines and realities aren't the same in the MCU then fine, good, that the worldbuilding for it is super dumb doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but this is still one guy applying what he believes to everything by his own views. Others will do the same and there is no telling if it was intended in the way he thinks (It's not).
Click to expand...
Doctor Strange 1's Multiverse is all about bizarre dimensions and planes of existence, not alternate/parallel realities (they're just specific subset of all dimensions)
Is there a scenario where we see a different version of earth?

Kevin Feige: I think when comic book fans hear parallel dimensions or multiple dimensions they think of Earth 616 and Earth 617 and Earth 618. That’s all possible. But what we’re playing with in this world is there are dimensions – that the other dimensions are not just parallel realities, although some of them are, but there are the Dark Dimension where Dormammu inhabits; there are dimensions that are so mind-bending that you can barely perceive them; there are dimensions where a lot of the Ditko images come from; there are dimensions that are just mind trips that the human mind can barely fathom which is why it’s hard to turn them into something to show audiences in November. But we’re playing as much with the notion of the multiverse as much as alien dimensions, for lack of a better term, than parallel realities where there’s Strange that wears Iron Man armor – we’re not there yet.
Click to expand...
 
Rabbit2002 said:
Doctor Strange 1's Multiverse is all about bizarre dimensions and planes of existence, not alternate/parallel realities (they're just specific subset of all dimensions)
Is there a scenario where we see a different version of earth?
Click to expand...
There's also the thing about how the sling rings were multiversal until this movie, where only America's power and Dreamwalking were capable of traveling to other timelines.
 
Wdinatx said:
There's also the thing about how the sling rings were multiversal until this movie, where only America's power and Dreamwalking were capable of traveling to other timelines.
Click to expand...
The term "universe" makes more sense in this context. I say "dimension" when it's referring to realities like the quantum realm or the dark dimension
 
Abysswalker2126 said:
Also why was this movie so much darker than every other mcu movie? End game wasn’t even this dark. Legit first few minutes we see dr strange get killed, then not long after we see Wanda kill several people even vaporizing a guy close up, then made blackbolt blow his brains out, shredded reeds body then obliterated him, crushed captain marvel, and disemboweled carter, then she snapped Xavier’s neck like a horror movie. Then she chases strange and the gang through the tunnel and even pulls a jumpscare, later dr strange blasts sinister strange out the window where he’s visibly impaled on the fence, strange then uses the souls of the damned to fight Wanda as a corpse like wtf!?
Click to expand...
Those scenes were the best parts.
 
Eficiente said:
We may take what we can from this, but it comes of as beyond stupid. There was no "activation of the Multiverse"/"reactivation of the Multiverse", the Multiverse was already a thing in Dr. Strange, which happened before the Loki show in the Loki show as events from after it were shown on a screen and that Loki came from a timeline messed by the heroes from after Dr. Strange 1. If alt. realities are for example those from which each Spider-Man come from and alt. timelines are what we see in Loki then he should not have said "At that moment, the Multiverse expanded indefinitely forward into the future, back into the past, sideways, left and right, to alternate realities", he should know well that he those were alt. timelines, meaning that he either made a mistake in the sense that he meant timelines or made a mistake in the sense that he forgot about the multiverse, Dark Dimension and other-dimensional beings established in Dr. Strange.

If alt. timelines and realities aren't the same in the MCU then fine, good, that the worldbuilding for it is super dumb doesn't mean it doesn't exist, but this is still one guy applying what he believes to everything by his own views. Others will do the same and there is no telling if it was intended in the way he thinks (It's not).
Click to expand...
Already said but from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong though), the "multiverse" in the first movie was about other universes and dimensions like the Quantum Realm or the Mirror Dimension, not about alternate realities/timelines.
 
I'm being told nothing new I didn't already acknowledge. It was about other realities, that's stated and I even linked sources for it. But like I said, making up the meaning of words that mean the same is what makes you say that it didn't deal with "alternate realities" yet, as I acknowledged. Meaning that, yes, "they didn't deal with alternate realities yet", as that's what they made up. This doesn't remove the fact that
  • it is all incompetently done
  • that they still dealt with the Multiverse before unlike what they said, so no "multiverse" in quotation marks
  • and that given that they had also dealt with "infinite universes", showed reflections of Strange when talking about the multiverse & we knew about realiteis Dormammu has already consumed, it all makes one would intuitively think are other regular & non-weird universes exist. If one is willing to believe that they actually meant that that they are an infinite number of universe-sized weird dimensions making up the multiverse and the reason being that they show only a few of those weird dimensions in the movie then, no, that's bias, misremembering the movie and overlapping the new lore to force it to have always been there.
If you guys disagree on how I called the handling of things stupid then sure, that's perfectly fine as opinions are subjective, I had imagined we were all in the same page there when maybe I shouldn't have. But aside from that and unrelated to it, there are things going on that are objective facts.
 
Eficiente said:
I'm being told nothing new I didn't already acknowledge. It was about other realities, that's stated and I even linked sources for it. But like I said, making up the meaning of words that mean the same is what makes you say that it didn't deal with "alternate realities" yet, as I acknowledged. Meaning that, yes, "they didn't deal with alternate realities yet", as that's what they made up. This doesn't remove the fact that
  • it is all incompetently done
  • that they still dealt with the Multiverse before unlike what they said, so no "multiverse" in quotation marks
  • and that given that they had also dealt with "infinite universes", showed reflections of Strange when talking about the multiverse & we knew about realiteis Dormammu has already consumed, it all makes one would intuitively think are other regular & non-weird universes exist. If one is willing to believe that they actually meant that that they are an infinite number of universe-sized weird dimensions making up the multiverse and the reason being that they show only a few of those weird dimensions in the movie then, no, that's bias, misremembering the movie and overlapping the new lore to force it to have always been there.
If you guys disagree on how I called the handling of things stupid then sure, that's perfectly fine as opinions are subjective, I had imagined we were all in the same page there when maybe I shouldn't have. But aside from that and unrelated to it, there are things going on that are objective facts.
Click to expand...
I understand this sentiment.

However, due to the contradiction, I think that there's inevitably going to be distinctions noted since the thing that spawned this dilemma (sling rings) have been stated to be used to travel the infinite multiverse and demonstrated doing so to travel back from the mirror dimension, yet MoM makes it pretty clear that the only thing that can be used to move through the multiverse shown in that movie is America's power

To me, its not about applying headcanon terms to things, but trying to make sense of things without doing the former

I agree that the lack of clarity regarding the multiverse shenanigans is stupid but I also think that we can try to make sense of it, of course without going into headcanon territory
 
Newendigo said:
I think we should just simple ignore the previous canon and go by the new one.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure its not any kind of new canon, considering the contradiction is only brought on by the fact that casual fans probably won't catch the WoG statements regarding what they're trying to convey with the multiverse in DS1 and the multiverse in DS2. However, we know from those statements that they didn't intend for these things to be the same, and thus I think these two concepts can coexist
 
Last edited:
Anyway, on my opinion of the film:

1) This movie is a weird match up lmao, there is extremely gross, gory parts like that scene with Gargantos' eye, and then there is silly, campy scenes like the "Let's kick some Witch's ass, winks". The soundtrack too, that part in which Wanda was making the ritual of wandering had a odd techno beat, that is very constrasting from the classic epic orchested music..

2) The cameos were all disappointing, like come on, just show 'em to die, Reed is clearly not the smartest man in the universe, smh. The Sinister Strange was also a letdown. I wonder tho, if the Capitan Carter that appeared is the same one from What If, because if that is how her reality (And her) turns out then Ultra-OOF.

I also wonder why Tony is not even mentioned at all, Ultron and this timeline was won without him sacrificing. And you know what I question even more? That Vision is lacking entirely. We only hear his mention once and that's it, nor we get to see the human husband of the Wanda variant, which is so ******* weird in every way.

3) Scarlett Witch's arc is... Interesting. I wouldn't call it great but since from her introduction in Age of Ultron up to here her development from being sidekick of Ultron, to be a semi regurlar hero, a chased criminal, semi psychopath to full on psychopath feels... Natural after all she went through.

She works pretty danm well as a powerfull and scary villain, she is a constant unstoppable force in the film and the way she gets across and finishes rivals is disturbing.

4) Now Doctor Strange... You see from very early in the MCU he was compared to Iron man as the "Magical Tony Stark" which is previous obvious in his solo film, arrogant successful individual suffers an accident, realizes that the world and situations are different than he used to think, has to fight now for the good of the world and make self-damning decision for the sake of everyone, yada yada.

In the Multiverse of Madness, it sorta is like this aswell, just in the context that he is an arrogantly powerful sorcerer that thinks he should take the wheel when it comes to saving everyone, an attitude that he eventually gets over with and finally decides to trust and respect other people in this magic world aswell.

Which is still great, the movie is very good at developing this by showing different versions of Strange taking extreme paths, all leading to horrible conclusions and is also unique from Tony who has to directly see the consequences of his action in his universe.

His love interest Palmer is there not only mediator for his recklessness (Like Pepper) but also to add layers to him; as someone powerful but unhappy without her and has to deal with the fact she will likely not going to be with her in a thousand or so universes. That small scene with the Evil Strange, talking about the death of her sister is also good at adding depth to Stephen.

Overall, I do say that while the general theme of the plot (Learn humilty, trust and respect others) is something that has been done already many times, the distinctions and their execution are good enough to make it feel original in a good way.

5) America Chavez tho, is meh. "I don't know how to control my power" => "Trust yourself" => "Okay" => "Controls Power". Good thing that the problem is not solved right afterwards, it takes Wanda the realization to stop the madness, otherwise Chavez's self-confidence wouldn't be enough.

T.L;D.R: Is pretty fly, 7.8/10.
 
Last edited:
So, Balder was originally planned to be in the movie, but turns out it wasn't Bruce Campbell's original role (It was always Pizza Poppa) instead that role was going to Daniel Craig
 
Newendigo said:
Anyway, on my opinion of the film:

1) This movie is a weird match up lmao, there is extremely gross, gory parts like that scene with Gargantos' eye, and then there is silly, campy scenes like the "Let's kick some Witch's ass, winks". The soundtrack too, that part in which Wanda was making the ritual of wandering had a odd techno beat, that is very constrasting from the classic epic orchested music..

2) The cameos were all disappointing, like come on, just show 'em to die, Reed is clearly not the smartest man in the universe, smh. The Sinister Strange was also a letdown. I wonder tho, if the Capitan Carter that appeared is the same one from What If, because if that is how her reality (And her) turns out then Ultra-OOF.

I also wonder why Tony is not even mentioned at all, Ultron and this timeline was won without him sacrificing. And you know what I question even more? That Vision is lacking entirely. We only hear his mention once and that's it, nor we get to see the human husband of the Wanda variant, which is so ******* weird in every way.

3) Scarlett Witch's arc is... Interesting. I wouldn't call it great but since from her introduction in Age of Ultron up to here her development from being sidekick of Ultron, to be a semi regurlar hero, a chased criminal, semi psychopath to full on psychopath feels... Natural after all she went through.

She works pretty danm well as a powerfull and scary villain, she is a constant unstoppable force in the film and the way she gets across and finishes rivals is disturbing.

4) Now Doctor Strange... You see from very early in the MCU he was compared to Iron man as the "Magical Tony Stark" which is previous obvious in his solo film, arrogant successful individual suffers an accident, realizes that the world and situations are different than he used to think, has to fight now for the good of the world and make self-damning decision for the sake of everyone, yada yada.

In the Multiverse of Madness, it sorta is like this aswell, just in the context that he is an arrogantly powerful sorcerer that thinks he should take the wheel when it comes to saving everyone, an attitude that he eventually gets over with and finally decides to trust and respect other people in this magic world aswell.

Which is still great, the movie is very good at developing this by showing different versions of Strange taking extreme paths, all leading to horrible conclusions and is also unique from Tony who has to directly see the consequences of his action in the his universe.

His love interest Palmer is there not only mediator for his recklessness (Like Pepper) but also to add a layers to him; Someone powerful but unhappy without her and has to deal with the fact she will likely not going to be with her in a thousand or so universes. That small scene with the Evil Strange, talking about the death of her sister is also good at adding depth to him.

Overall, I do say that while the general theme of the plot (Learn humilty, trust and respect others) is something that has been done already many times, the distinctions and their execution are good enough to make it feel original in a good way.

5) America Chavez tho, is meh. "I don't know how to control my power" => "Trust yourself" => "Okay" => "Controls Power". Good thing that the problem is not solved right afterwards, it takes Wanda to realization to stop the madness, otherwise Chavez's self-confidence wouldn't be enough.

T.L;D.R: Is pretty fly, 7.8/10.
Click to expand...
I agree for the most part except for 2
 
Propellus said:
Good god what Wanda would do to him like she did with the others she's killed. And now that I think about it, this all reminds me of when Omni Man killed all of the Guardians of Globe so brutally.
Click to expand...
Most obvious one is telekinetically crush him. If he has the endo-sym or nanotech type suit, probably could've made it enter his skin then kill him from the inside out by having it explode out or something. Probably not Pg-13 but yeah
 
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