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Doctor Fate Revamp

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Yes, Jim is noted on Zatanna's profile to be inexperienced, hence the '2-B, possibly 2-A.' Ooooor, you could just give her a 'Possibly 2-A,' or a 'Likely 2-A.' That would make more sense, IMO.
 
Well, that's another knowledgeable member at least, and it looks like between him, Hykuu, and Matthew, LordTracer's version of the revision is now the standard. How many knowledgeable members did Ant want exactly before we could approve these changes?
 
Are you sure you want me to tap all of those people? We've already been visited and approved by three of them, and you told me at least one of them is inactive.
 
Which ones have approved this?

I suppose that you can skip Sera and Prince if you wish in any case.
 
SuperAPM, KLOL506, and Matthew Schroeder, but Matthew seemed to overlook Fate and only really commented on the characters we are in dispute over (that being Parallax and the three guys who scale from him). We have immediate feats for the Fate upgrades, so the thing that's really been slowing us down is a handful of the scalable characters.
 
We have a sizeable number of knowledgeable members approving at this point. Is there some particular number we need? Ever since we leveled out Superman's involvement, pretty much everybody who's looked at the page has approved. The only real discussion still being had is where to place Parallax and the three whose pages rely on scaling to him.
 
We do not have a sizeable number of knowledgeable input yet. Sorry. Especially as Matthew did not go indepth in his reply.
 
Sorry. I think I might be a little disoriented. You have posted a couple lists throughout this thread that vary in which members they suggest for input. Additionally, our wiki's official page sports yet another list filled with different members. I had assumed that they were all lists of knowledgeable members, but if you're asking about the last list specifically, we have only had three from that group comment. How many exactly are we looking for?
 
KLOL is not particilarly knowledgeable about Marvel and DC, just helpful, which is why I included him, but perhaps this was unwise, and Matthew has barely commented. Zark and SuperAPM are fine though.

The last list are some of the people I trust to evaluate this that are currently active and I did not remember to have commented previously at the time.
 
I apologize. I haven't gotten around to tapping your list yet. I will try to contact them the moment I get some breathing room, but an emergency came up at work yesterday, and I've been dealing with a lot of overtime. Are TitanCrusher101, Dark-Carioca, Hykuu, and/or CrimsonStarFallen considered Knowledgeable Members? They are on our wiki's official page for DC experts.
 
No they are not. Sorry. Hykuu technically knows quite a lot, but he tends to be too upgrade-enthusiastic/not sufficiently objective going by my experience.
 
Well, I have my own list of links to members knowledgeable and/or reliable to give input for Marvel and DC Comics threads, since the franchises are so confusing in terms of being extremely inconsistent, and we can gradually end up with 1-A everybody otherwise.
 
LordTracer said:
Wait, what? They were all on the Knowledgeable Members List, that's why I asked for them to give input in the first place.
Click to expand...
Anyone can add their name onto the list, whether they may know stuff. It isn't moderated, and in case of "high priority" verses, is often disregarded, mainly because most folks don't tend to know as much stuff as they claim (no offense to anyone).

This is getting to be a slightly risque topic to discuss...
 
Yes, let's drop it please. Zark is correct though, and again, Marvel and DC Comics are extremely confusing to try to make sense of. It takes a proven very unbiased and rationalminded approach to be reliable for properly evaluating them.
 
I won't comment on any of that. Though perhaps Ant should add his special list to the official knowledgeable members page to avoid confusion in the future. There is an oddly low amount of overlap between the two, which threw me off earlier. I'll try to compose some nice petitions for various people to review our agreed upon changes between now and when I get home from work (whenever that may be). Thanks for being patient with me.
 
Based on the feats listed above Kent Nelson should be 2-C, Kent+Inza should be At least 2-C, likely higher, and Nabu should also be At least 2-C, likely higher.

For what we have and due to how variable some chars are, I agree with this per OP. Flat 2-A would probably lead to scaling inconsistencies later imo.
 
Why 2-C? There's at least one feat in their performed by one of the weakest incarnations of Fate that's just straight up 2-B.
 
Can someone please provide a summary of what's being discussed here? I'm not sure what the tiers being argued for/against are, and can't really make an accurate judgement
 
ClassicNESfan said:
This overhaul of Doctor Fate's profile seeks to better categorize his varying power levels and more thoroughly account for his long history of feats, ranging from universal to multiversal, depending upon the incarnation of the character. A key will be added for each agent of Fate, and a variety of characters who scale to the Fates will also need to be revised as a result. The tier adjustments detailed below represent the conclusions arrived at by a small group of Knowledgeable DC Members and various associated users of the VS Battles Wiki.

2-A Bracket: Nabu, Doctor Fate (Kent & Inza), Mordru (Unbound Lord of Chaos), The Spectre (Jim Corrigan), The Phantom Stranger, Trigon, The Spectre (Hal Jordan)

2-B Bracket: Doctor Fate (Kent Nelson), Doctor Fate (Hector Hall), Doctor Fate (Eric & Linda Strauss), Mordru (Physical Form), Time Trapper, Infinite Man, Parallax (Hal Jordan), Darkseid, Takion, Highfather

Low 2-C Bracket: Doctor Fate (Kent V Nelson)

It should be noted that the above mentioned scaling does not represent unanimous consensus but instead reflects the general agreement among a majority of reviewers. Specifically, disagreements exist in the following areas:

ClassicNESfa believes that The Spectre (Hal Jordan) is better suited as 2-B, Possibly 2-A.

Zark2099 is Undecided on whether Parallax (Hal Jordan) or Trigo need a revision at all.

LordTracer believes that Parallax (Hal Jordan), Darkseid, Takio, and Highfather are better suited as 2-B, Possibly 2-A.


-Matthew Schroeder has recently voiced support for 2-A Parallax (Hal Jordan)


Thanks for reading, and let us know what you think!
Click to expand...
@Crimson Azoth
 
I do not agree with a possible 2-A Parallax. This may be just me being conservative, but Parallax has never been written as high as 2-A in my mind, especially the fact that he has always seemed as inferior to the various Spectres and a lesser threat than unbound Mordu.

In short, I agree with the current bands in Titan's above
 
Sorry. I'm here. I've been out for several days due to a serious problem at my place of business that has needed a lot of my attention.

@Crimson Azoth, are you saything that you agree with the standard revisions proposed but not with any of the tweaks suggested by myself, Lord Tracer, or Matthew?
 
I don't know if it's just me, but he's always seemed relative to the Spectres. In his two actual interactions with them, he was able to swap hands with Corrigan (Zero Hour) and very clearly overwhelm Allen (Blackest Night?). And even if you peg Parallax as the Spectres' inferior, him being infinitely beneath them doesn't make much sense at all.
 
Yes, but as we've discussed a few times, the Spectre varies in power a lot. I always try to be cautious when scaling from him and prefer more supplimental feats. I won't aruge if everybody disagrees with me, though.
 
Which is the purpose of the "possibly 2-A." As was decided a while ago when scaling Seven Soldier Zatanna, since Spectre's power level is wonky, those who's scaling to him is questionable (even though I personally don't find Parallax being Corrigan level questionable at all) would be given a rating based on their feats and a "possibly" rating based on their scaling to Spectre. Hence, Parallax would have 2-B for his feat of one-shotting Time Trapper, and a possibly 2-A for fighting with Corrigan.
 
@NES I agree with the standard revisions proposed

@LordTracer what I stated above is how I have always perceived Parallax. The point about Parallax being infinity below does make sense, but again, he shouldn't really be in any way comparable to unbound Mordu.
 
Well, seeing as we've reached deadlock, I have no issue leaving it up to the newer members of the thread. It's not like I have anything against Parallax. I just fundamentally disagree with handing out varying tiers to everybody who fights the Spectre. I'll go along with it if that's what everybody wants, but I just felt it necessary to restate my thoughts on the matter. Considering the Fates are so cut and dry, this thread has kind of become more about the people who scale to them than the doctor himself.
 
No offense, but that's not really a reason for him to not be 2-A. Just because you personally don't think he's that high doesn't really counter that in both his displays against Spectres, Parallax held his own extremely well and even took the advantage against both. And for what reason should he not be comparable to unbound Mordru (even though them both being 2-A does not mean they're comparable).
 
No, but it is countered by the Spectre not being a good benchmark for scaling characters. If other people agree that fighting the Spectre is not sufficient evidence for granting someone another tier, given his tendency to vary a lot, then that should be considered a valid interpretation. I mean, I don't see how it's unreasonable to ask for a single secondary 2-A feat when the only thing you have to go off of is one fight against a character who is sometimes 2-A.
 
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