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DMC Downgrade #2: Hax Edition

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The 2nd thread, hopefully less chaotic this time. I will mainly be going over Dante, just cus i have only checked his profile so let's go.

Volume 1 Dante
1) Deconstruction, the scan does not show dante having some sort of special bullet capable of doing this. And that is what happens to demons when they die, not all of them, each of them has a different type of death, but this can be seen even in the normal gameplay, Dante just whacks a buncha demons with his sword or any weapon, then they just evaporate or explode after some time. Im more eager to say that's just how demons work rather than it being an ability Dante has because even if the gameplay isn't a good enough reasoning then here is DMC3 demons just exploding to what appears to be dust from an average Dante punch (it happens all the time no matter how they're killed), here is Berial exploding into sparks after Dante shoots him. Here is how Bael dies. Here is Echidna dying in another similar but not deconstruction fashion from the same gunshot. Then we have Credo's death, who was not even caused by Dante, yet look at how he dies from an average stab from Yamato. I could gather more deaths if i wanted to, basically the entirety of the demon deaths in DMC4 from fodder to high tier we see on pannel, Goliath, Artemis, Nidhogg, Geryon Knight's horse, Gilgamesh, Cavaliere, Malphas, King Cerberus and the familiar's death from DMC5 , but you already get the point.
2) Resistance to soul manip (that just turns people into demons) (evidence provided, it can stay)
3) Resistance to Corruption type 3 (Dante is already half demon) Dante shouldn't be affected by the demon world stuff cus it is stated by Chen in the novel after beating mundus and even Agnus says "you're not a human". And it's supposed to affect only humans. And to quote the novel:
And in that moment, he and Dante both understood the reason why the Beastheads had never assimilated any of the demons that had carried it. It was the same reason Dante was able to carve his way through the gel coffin and stand in front of Chen.
"The Beastheads eats us humans and replenishes you demons. It's like a power transformer for souls!"
"Probably." Dante shrugged. The power that now imbued him felt neither good nor evil. It simply was. Whoever wielded it could reshape reality to its own design, for better or for worse.

Chen refers to Dante as a "demon" and says that because of this he does not get negatively affected by the Beastheads which supposedly should affect humans. SImilarly if being half human-half demon is considered being a demon, that would mean he would not be affected by the demon world effects either. (evidence provided, it can stay)
4) Resistance to Fear Manipulation (Dante is a demon, he's not gonna be scared of such weak demons, it's like giving humans resistance to fear hax for looking at each-other when birds are scared of them). And the fear manip works solely because of the human's "6th sense" of danger, not because of "mind hax gg".

DMC3:
1) Why does Dante have Power Null for Royal Guard? Nullifying an attack isn't power null, as it is not nullifying abilities.


DMC1:
1) Soul manipulation should be changed to "possibly". It is more like he's theorizing, there even is a question mark on the "soul". And the cores do seem to be a lot more physical than "souls" considering they make sounds when being whacked, have durability, can be damaged by Calina Ann. So a "possibly" seems more fair here. Also it's not Soul Manip, it is non physical interaction. rejected
2) Resistance to Poison. They strictly tell you to stay away. Why is that resistance? And the poison isn't necessarily lethal, nor would anyone with regen instantly go down from poison.
3) Resistance to AZ, this is more of a standard change. It's just resistance to cold, since he's just being hit by AZ stuff, not being frozen to AZ.
4) Resistance to ESP if this comes from DMC5 then i'll have to disagree. It was more like the demons were attracted to the sword instead of Dante. So the sword itself had more presence than Dante, cus it would make no sense for the sword to hide Dante's presence when Dante wasn't even wielding it.

DMC Anime:
1) Regeneration Negation should be yeeted. He killed sid after a battle and we all know how "effective" healing becomes after long battles from several statements throughout the series. After long battles we should not rely much on healing considering we know that it becomes greatly ineffective
2) Resistance to sound manip. What kind of sound attacks are we talking about here? There should be more clarification on the profile (Provided and it's legit, it can stay)

DMC2:
1) Immortality negation. Not a thing. Type 5 is not a form of immortality you necessarily need to bypass to end someone.
2) Fear Manipulation. Broken link, someone should fix it. They will add scans
3) Dimensional travel. Why? Seems a bit weird, he just beats the boss and a portal opens Bloody Palace style.
4) Resistance to Mind Manipulation. Demon world energy, i went over it before with the whole "human" and "demon". explained it's fine to stay

DMC4:
1) Resurrection. It should probably be stated on the profile "with Gold Orb". Assuming that's the reason he has it. finished
2) BFR with yamato. Why? Yamato opens portals to the underworld, it doesn't BFR. BFR means to send somebody somewhere by force, afaik Yamato has no ability where it forces people somewhere else, they have to willingly walk through the portal. So swap this with "Portal Creation". Dowgraded
3) Minor Transmutation with Gilgamesh. Im confused on this one, i don't remember any transmutation with Gilgamesh, haven't played DMC4 in a while but someone should remind me why this is and put that reasoning in the profile. provided evidence it's fine.
4) Resistance to Sealing. No, Sparda separated the 2 world, Yamato specifically opens a portal between them. It does not resist or bypass sealing, it just bypasses the separation which is what dimensional travel is supposed to do by default, open a portal between 2 separated places.

DMC5:
1) Gravity manip needs a scan. Psychometry needs a justification. The rest is fine.

That's all i had.
 
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Just a question: If demon physiology is the reason Dante isn't affected by the hax, wouldn't that just give demon physiology hax resistance instead of taking away resistance from Dante?
 
The world does not affect demons by nature. It's like saying a castle turns you into an animal then giving animals resistance to transmutation for being inside it.

They are just by nature unaffected by the demon world due to the fact that the demon world turns people into demons, what it does would not affect demons logically.
 
Time to revise Castlevania after this

Anyways, I find the changes fine from a glance, but I'll wiat for further input.
 
> The world does not affect demons by nature. It's like saying a castle turns you into an animal then giving animals resistance to transmutation for being inside it.

Yeah sure, because a castle is completely comparable to a different dimension that ***** shit up, totally, yup, exactly the same.

I am searching for some scans to shut this down, I'll comment in a bit.
 
Also if it doesn't work on demons that seems more akin to a caveat as opposed to a resistance for the demons. Is there a scan that explicitly states that they're resistant to the effects?
 
Disagree with “Possibly” for soul manipulation since Eifete proved it in the other thread. Also disagree with removal of ESP resistance. I’ll wait for further input on the rest.
 
Disagree with “Possibly” for soul manipulation since Eifete proved it in the other thread. Also disagree with removal of ESP resistance. I’ll wait for further input on the rest.
Yeah that had to be changed since the OP was made before that. But it's still Non Physical Interaction, not Soul Manip.

Any reason you disagree with removal of ESP resistance?
 
V straight up stated that the sparda was concealing Dante’s presence. He didn’t say anything about the Sparda distracting them.
 
1) It is never stated he needs a special bullet or something similar and the narration goes and explicitly mentions how Gilver is being tore apart molecule by molecule until no atom remains.
2) What is the problem with it? The scan is pretty straight forward “THE SOUL transformed when it reached the outer crust of the netherworld”

3) How is being a half demon an argument? Let me put an example for you, if a life form from Venus came to earth and we expose it to fire, toxic gases and all the shit they are naturally resistent by virtue of living in those conditions, do you think it will die? It will be affected? Obviously no, those adapted or were born immune/resistant to their enviroment, this is the exact same thing, demons live in a place where they get exposed to all that shit and thus became immune/resistant to it. Another thing, in Vol2 they DID get affected by all the shit the demon world did when they got closer to the nexus/heart.

Also, Dante DID feel the effects of the demon world in his fight with Gilver in volumen 1, something that isn't even relevant by the time of dmc3

4) Your argument is “Dante shouldn’t be scared of weak demons” ...thats a stupid argument,

> it's like giving humans resistance to fear hax for looking at each-other when birds are scared of them). And the fear manip works solely because of the human's "6th sense" of danger, not because of "mind hax gg".

Unlike this example, we know that demons are evil spirits capable of possesing shit to materialize in the human world, and explicitly mentioned to have an aura that instills fear on all those who are within their range.

5) What is exactly weird about it? It is another straight forward scan, if this case of Dante admitting an ability like that would have 0 effects on him.


DMC3:

1) I can’t belive this but I somewhat agree with this, certainly the Power Null page backs us up with this but I haven’t seen the scan for Power Null (Dieno you still need to bring that >:V), in any case:

Regarding what I said about the power null page supporting us here: “Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to simply nullify the powers and abilities of others, negating their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type of power, such as supernatural phenomena in general, or magic.”

Dante Nulls any incoming attack, be it magic based or physically done.

DMC1:
1) Efi debunked this in the last thread.

Also, in DMC1 Dante can indeed kill Shadow, Griffon and Phantom Griffon without the need to interact with their cores so this goes out of the window too. Basically soul hax.

2) Because Dante is completly unnafected by their poison, like, he never shows any kind of lasting response when hit with it like poison normally does.

3) The frosts can in fact freeze Dante, at least they can do it in 4 (they do it by throwing the claws) and they are the exact same thing created by mundus, so I’m expecting it stays or they upscale from Nero who can break free from it without even having his demonic powers awaken.

4) Someone already posted the link there and it literally tells you the sword was hiding Dante's presence, literally a sword he suprassed in power long ago won't be enough by a long shot to get the attention of other weak demons when Dante is lying almost at its side.

DMC Anime:

1) Bruh what? Their regen never becomes “greatly ineffective”, the **** are you talking about? Look at dmc3 where vergil was so ******* tired he coul barely stand, got cut in half and immediatly regenerated. Also, the battle wasn’t even a long battle, it was a one shot and Sid’s regen gives 0 ***** about AP stomps, it’s literally coming back from a pool of blood

DMC2:
1) After talking with some Friends, eehhh, maybe? How to **** are you supposed to kill something that doesn’t exist after all?


2) Fear Manipulation. Broken link, someone should fix it.

We will have a CRT to add the **** ton of scans missing, don’t worry about it.


3) Dimensional travel. Why? Seems a bit weird, he just beats the boss and a portal opens Bloody Palace style.

…okay, Trismagia BFR’s his ass to its dimension and Dante gets out after defeating it, the portal that opens later is when he is already out fo there.


4) I already explained

DMC4:
1) In game he can carry 3 of them, im personally neutral if this stays or goes, also, it is because of Yamato too, as explained by the new DMC timeline video thing-y Yamato can ressurect others, it did with Nero.


2) BFR with yamato. Why? Yamato opens portals to the underworld, it doesn't BFR. BFR means to send somebody somewhere by force, afaik Yamato has no ability where it forces people somewhere else, they have to willingly walk through the portal. So swap this with "Portal Creation".

I guess it was because he could potentially open a portal and throw someone there? IDK this one was already taken out of Vergil’s profile so Dante having it should be a no-no, also, he isn’t as skilled with Yamato so he could very well not know about it (by 5 he seems to already know but…. eeeehhhh?)


3) Gilgamesh is stated to consume flesh and transform it in metal, what it hits becomes metal or something like that, i don’t remember much either.

"GILGAMESH: Made of devilish metal that absorbs organic metal and transforms it to steel, this weapon will shock and awe enemies with brute force."


4) Yamato was used to seal the demon world, it was stated in 3 and 4 but i don’t have the scans, maybe when we update the profiles it will be updated, if not then it goes out but im neutral if it gets taken out right now.

DMC5:

1) Psychometry needs a justification.

  • Im pretty sure this should be since vol1 or 3 as he learns how to use weapons the momento he touches them.
 
It would do your argument well to find some examples because if all royal guard has ever been shown to due is nullify or negate attacks that sounds like it should just be Damage Reduction.
 
I'm neutral if it comes or goes, the power null page helps us somewhat

Regarding what I said about the power null page supporting us here: “Power Nullification, or Negation, is the ability to simply nullify the powers and abilities of others, negating their effects. The mechanisms by which this effect is accomplished and their restrictions vary from character to character, but the ability is often limited to a certain type of power, such as supernatural phenomena in general, or magic.”

Dante Nulls any incoming attack, be it magic based or physically done, basically he brings his arm up and whatever attack that goes in his way doesn't do any damage and it's absorbed (which he can throw back again in a slap or a punch)
 
Doesn't look like it's nullifying either powers, more just the damage that they would incur onto Dante especially since even when Dante blocks the attacks they aren't immediately gone or anything like that but finish up before disappearing.
 
Actually i have a bit of time gonna go over Tony's points now:

DMC novel 1:
1) So your entire argument relies on 3 characters not dying normally whereas literally everyone else dying like that gets the "well idfk why credo died like that". There is a spider in dmc1 i believe that has a death similar to all the cases i mentioned even though it wasn't even killed by anyone, it was stabbed by a statue, died and turned into whatever stuff he turned into. Beowulf isn't even a good argument he might have died exactly like these guys, if anything the fact that by the time Dante gets there Beowulf's body isn't there just adds more proof to the "he died like all the others". Similar thing for Agnus. Griffon can you show me the scan? And this still doesn't defeat the whole "a lot of demons die like this why was gilver any different?".
2) And Dante is already a demon so what would happen to him?
3) What the? What was that argument exactly? Demons grow up in a world that turns them into demons and they become resistant to it? What would sth that turns humans into demons do to beings that are already demons?
4) Can you post a scan for this "aura" part. Cus all i saw on the profile was "the human's 6th sense warns them of the danger". Which isn't a feat for the demons, it's a feat for the humans. They sense that something is dangerous.
5) Just asking to make sure it's not a case similar to the demon world stuff.

1) Dante doesn't "nullify" them in the same sense that we use "nullify". He just blocks it, to nullify it would mean to dispell the magic, which is not what Dante is doing.

1) Not really. The fact that it should be just NPI still stands.
2) Because of regen?
3) They freeze him, but not in AZ. He gets freezed into a temperature between his body's temperature and AZ, not AZ.
4) Potency and presence are not necessarily related. And why would Sparda's sword hide Dante's presence if Dante wasn't even wielding it. Makes a TON more sense for Sparda's sword to have more presence considering how we just see a bunch of demons attracted to it.

1) The quotes about them needing to heal wounds and being wounded in DMC3 and 5 say otherwise.

1) Just NPI.
2) Ok fair.
3) There are several other answers you could give to that actually. Pocket dimension that was destroyed when trismagia was killed, raw game mechanics etc, but this isn't a big deal as long as y'all don't abuse it. If i see anyone arguing for cross dimensional teleport for that when Yamato is 1 of the biggest plot devices in the show imma come back to this.

1) Yamato has never shown to resurrect Dante and yamato was given to Vergil so it's hard to argue that it would work similarly for Dante. Best to stick to gold orbs.
2) That's just portal creation either way.
3) Fair.
4) It was a term used to mean "separated". If it was pure sealing half of the lovely low 2-C feats are thrown outta the window cus if they're not separated they stop becoming AP feats. Again just crossdimensional teleport.
 
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