Threemagi
He/Him- 486
- 97
Multiverse Size
On the size of the Discworld Multiverse and the nature of the local multiverse.
The multiverse is infinite in extent :
The Discworld multiverse is not only infinite, but contains endless cardinal & aleph sets (levels of infinity) and all possible worlds :
There is no end to the list of Cantorian infinities
There is no 'hyperinfinity' that is bigger than all other infinities :
Different multiverses are refered to, given there are infinite more with each new cardinal set :
There are also worlds within worlds :
"Think like this," he said at last. "Think of everything. It's an everyday word. But 'everything' means…everything. It's a much bigger word than 'universe.' And everything contains all possible things that can happen at all possible times in all possible worlds. Don't look for complete solutions in any one of them. Sooner or later, everything causes everything else."|Thief of Time}}
All stories, dreams and songs exist somewhere out there in the multiverse :
Misc./Random info
These universes are made by beings called Creators
Beings who vary in nature, but who's job it is to create universes and worlds :
The Creators also create all alternate versions of their creations :
Azrael
He's one of Old High Ones. He is the death of the whole Multiverse, and the beginning and the end of Time :
The Old High Ones sustain everything by believing in it :
It was the Old High Ones who banished the Dark Elder Gods and Things to the Dungeon Dimensions :
My proposal
On the size of the Discworld Multiverse and the nature of the local multiverse.
The multiverse is infinite in extent :
| This means, for example, that intervening to prevent an unwanted historical outcome may well stop it happening in this universe, but won't prevent it happening in all the other, infinite number of universes. On that basis, what is the point of doing anything about anything? | ||
~ Turtle Recall: The Discworld Companion...So Far |
The Discworld multiverse is not only infinite, but contains endless cardinal & aleph sets (levels of infinity) and all possible worlds :
| Ponder sighed. `What was it you were thinking about, sir?' `Lots of Darwins get through this voyage, right?' `Yes. An infinite number.' `Well, in that case-' the Archchancellor began. `But Hex did say it's a much smaller infinite number that the number that don't,' said Ponder. `And that's an even smaller number than the very large infinity when he never goes on the voyage. And the number of infinities where he's never even born is-' `Infinite?' Ridcully asked. `At least,' said Ponder. `However, there is a positive side to this.' `Do tell, Stibbons.' `Well, sir, once Origin is published, the number of universes in which it is published will also become infinite in an infinitely small space of time. So even though the book may only be written once, it will, by human standards, immediately have been written in untold billions of adjacent universes.' `An infinite number, I suspect?' said Ridcully. `Yes, sir. Sorry about that. Infinity is a bit tricky.' `You can't imagine half of it, for one thing.' `That's true. It's not really a number at all. You can't get to it starting from one. And that's the problem, sir. Hex is right, the oddest number in the multiverse isn't infinity, it's one. Just one Charles Darwin writing The Origin of Species ... it's impossible. | ||
~ The Science of Discworld III: Darwin's Watch |
| THE WIZARDS ARE NOT ONLY grappling with the apparent absurdities of `quantum', their catch-all phrase for advanced physics and cosmology, but with the explosive philosophical/ mathematical concept of infinity. In their own way, they have rediscovered one of the great insights of nineteenth-century mathematics: that there can be many infinities, some of them bigger than others. If this sounds ridiculous, it is. | ||
~ The Science of Discworld III: Darwin's Watch |
| As well as the mathematics of infinity, the wizards are also contending with its physics. Is the Roundworld universe finite or infinite? Is it true that in any infinite universe, not only can anything happen, but everything must? Could there be an infinite universe consisting entirely of chairs ... immobile, unchanging, wildly unexciting? The world of the infinite is paradoxical, or so it seems at first, but we shouldn't let the apparent paradoxes put us off. If we keep a clear head, we can steer our way through the paradoxes, and turn the infinite into a reliable thinking aid. | ||
~ The Science of Discworld III: Darwin's Watch |
| But in the 1880s Cantor was thinking about actual infinities, and he opened up a veritable Pandora's box of ever-larger infinities. He called them trans-finite numbers, and he stumbled across them when he was working in a hallowed, traditional area of analysis. It was really hard, technical stuff, and it led him into previously uncharted byways. Musing deeply on the nature of these things, Cantor became diverted from his work in his entirely respectable area of analysis, and started thinking about something much more difficult. | ||
~ The Science of Discworld III: Darwin's Watch |
There is no end to the list of Cantorian infinities
There is no 'hyperinfinity' that is bigger than all other infinities :
| This, then, is Cantor's Paradise: an entirely new number system of alephs, of infinities beyond measure, never-ending - in a very strong sense of `never'. It arises entirely naturally from one simple principle: that the technique of `matching' is all you need to set up the logical foundations of arithmetic. Most working mathematicians now agree with Hilbert, and Cantor's initially astonishing ideas have been woven into the very fabric of mathematics. The wizards don't just have the mathematics of infinity to contend with. They are also getting tangled up in the physics. Here, entirely new questions about the infinite arise. Is the universe finite or infinite? What kind of finite or infinite? And what about all those parallel universes that the cosmologists and quantum theorists are always talking about? Even if each universe is finite, could there be infinitely many parallel ones? | ||
~ The Science of Discworld III: Darwin's Watch |
Different multiverses are refered to, given there are infinite more with each new cardinal set :
| The science of `the' multiverse - there are numerous alternatives, which is only appropriate - is fascinating. Universes with all possible physical rules exist somewhere out there in the multiverse. | ||
~ The Science of Discworld III: Darwin's Watch |
| Less human-centred explanations have also been offered, including a virtually endless cycle of creation and destruction of different universes, which can be noticed by their intelligent inhabitants only when they are the kind of universe that can have intelligent inhabitants, or a vast multiverse of parallel or independent universes in which every physical possibility is realised. | ||
~ The Science of Discworld IV: Judgement Day |
There are also worlds within worlds :
| Aha! Well done. You've learned something!' Lobsang drifted closer. 'You cannot believe the things that I have seen since last I saw you,' he said. 'Words cannot describe them. I have seen worlds nesting within worlds, like those dolls they carve in Uberwald. I have heard the music of the years. I know more than I can ever understand. But I do not know the Fifth Surprise. It is a trick, a conundrum... a test. | ||
~ Thief of Time |
| Beings like Time exist across everything, which is defined as all possible worlds which can happen at all possible times. "It's just the sugar," she said. "That's all. It's fuel. And do stop going on about it! Look, we can't just let you die to get—" Yes, we can, said Lobsang. "Why?" said Susan, shocked. Because I have seen everything. "Would you like to tell everyone?" said Susan, reverting to Classroom Sarcasm. "We'd all like to know how this ends!" You misunderstand the meaning of "everything." | ||
~ Thief of Time |
"Think like this," he said at last. "Think of everything. It's an everyday word. But 'everything' means…everything. It's a much bigger word than 'universe.' And everything contains all possible things that can happen at all possible times in all possible worlds. Don't look for complete solutions in any one of them. Sooner or later, everything causes everything else."|Thief of Time}}
All stories, dreams and songs exist somewhere out there in the multiverse :
| "D'you know what'll be turning up?" she continued. "All the things they locked away in those old stories. All those reasons why you shouldn't stray off the path, or open the forbidden door, or say the wrong word, or spill the salt. All the stories that gave children nightmares. All the monsters from under the biggest bed in the world. Somewhere, all stories are real and all dreams come true. And they'll come true here if they're not stopped." | ||
~ The Wee Free Me |
| And I'm in Fairyland, where dreams can hurt. Somewhere all stories are real, all songs are true. I thought that was a strange thing for the kelda to say... | ||
~ The Wee Free Me |
Misc./Random info
These universes are made by beings called Creators
Beings who vary in nature, but who's job it is to create universes and worlds :
| As all will know, the Discworld is a flat planet ― like a geological pizza, but without the anchovies. It offers sights far more impressive than those found in universes built by Creators with less imagination but more mechanical aptitude. | ||
~ Turtle Recall: The Discworld Companion...So Far |
The Creators also create all alternate versions of their creations :
| "Anyway, I can't hang about all day," he said. "Like I said, I've got a lot of jobs on." "Lots?" said Eric. "I thought there was only one." "Oh, no. There's masses of them," said the creator, beginning to fade away. "That's quantum mechanics for you, see. You don't do it once and have it done. No, they keep on branching off. Multiple choice they call it, it's like painting the—painting the—painting something very big that you have to keep on painting, sort of thing. It's all very well saying you just have to change one little detail, but which one, that's the real bugger. Well, nice to have met you. If you need any extra work, you know, an extra moon or something—" | ||
~ Eric |
| The creator of universes was happy. He'd just inserted one seven-sided snowflake into a blizzard as an experiment, and no one had noticed. Tomorrow he was half-inclined to try small, delicately crystalized letters of the alphabet. Alphabet Snow. It could be a winner. | ||
~ Eric |
He's one of Old High Ones. He is the death of the whole Multiverse, and the beginning and the end of Time :
| He is known there as the Great Attractor, the Death of the Whole Multiverse, the Beginning and the End of Time. He is so vast that he can only be measured in terms of the speed of light, and whole galaxies are lost in his eyes. Our Death, the Death who harvests all lives on Earth and on the Discworld, is only a little Death, and Azrael is his Lord. And at the end of all stories, Azrael, who knows the secret, thinks: I REMEMBER WHEN ALL THIS WILL BE AGAIN. | ||
~ The Folklore of Discworld |
| Old High Ones, the. Only very obliquely referred to in the Discworld religions. Such piecemeal references as have been discovered suggest that there are eight 'entities' that oversee the universe, although 'oversee' is far too strong a word. There is no single word that really does explain their role, which seems to be to observe in a dynamic way, in order for the observed events to be able to happen. It might be simpler to say that the universe exists because they believe in it. They are not gods ― from their point of view, gods are only a slightly more troublesome version of human beings. They are far above the AUDITORS OF REALITY, who are their executive arm. The names of seven of them, if they have names, have not been revealed. The eighth is AZRAEL. | ||
~ Turtle Recall: The Discworld Companion. . . So Far |
| It appears from the obscure writings of some exceptionally erudite wizards that the Things were once Dark Gods, existing on the Discworld until they were driven out by even more ancient and powerful beings, the Old High Ones. | ||
~ The Folklore of Discworld |
- Upgrade Azrael (Discworld) into Low 1-A
