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Dialga and Palkia vs. VictoryGreymon and ZeedGarurumon

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Question can someone point out how Palkia or Dialga have durability of Universal + (Because of fighting with each other along with Arceus) yet when a metor came down didn't Arceus go down for the count making that durability a lot weaker? Not taking away their abilities it obvious they have great hax abilitiy.

But if the statement is true then Team Digimon blitz them before they can do any Hax due.
 
VSJudge said:
Question can someone point out how Palkia or Dialga have durability of Universal + (Because of fighting with each other along with Arceus) yet when a metor came down didn't Arceus go down for the count making that durability a lot weaker? Not taking away their abilities it obvious they have great hax abilitiy.

But if the statement is true then Team Digimon blitz them before they can do any Hax due.
Click to expand...
'Twas PIS
 
VSJudge said:
Question can someone point out how Palkia or Dialga have durability of Universal + (Because of fighting with each other along with Arceus) yet when a metor came down didn't Arceus go down for the count making that durability a lot weaker? Not taking away their abilities it obvious they have great hax abilitiy.
But if the statement is true then Team Digimon blitz them before they can do any Hax due.
Click to expand...
Here. Dialga and Palkia destroying the Universe through physical blows.

20151023151012
 
Gotta say, thanks for that scan because I was able to read more of it lol. Very interesting manga I might have to read all of it. Anyway many things wrong, first they didn't destroy a universe it was being distorted but not destroyed (yet). Not to mention they can't create a universe by themselves they need to clash with each other. So they won't be able to pull of that type of distortion(Creating/Destroying Universe) unless they hit each other. But their space and time powers are shown to be great.

The thing is I still believe Team Digimon has this for many reasons. One; the next chapter regular Pokemon were able to tag those legendaries and some managed to push them back. Those regular pokemon aren't even close to being as fast or strong as Victory Greymon or ZeedGarurmon. Victory G-Mon managed to one shot a true universal easily and was able to land a critcal blow on Neo (He is nigh-omnipotent) someone who can destroy the universe(s) by himself in mere seconds. And he(Victory G-Mon) managed to survive a universal destruction (he was at the center of the blow.) Unless someone can provide with other scans then I say Team Digimon has this.
 
VSJudge said:
Gotta say, thanks for that scan because I was able to read more of it lol. Very interesting manga I might have to read all of it. Anyway many things wrong, first they didn't destroy a universe it was being distorted but not destroyed (yet). Not to mention they can't create a universe by themselves they need to clash with each other. So they won't be able to pull of that type of distortion(Creating/Destroying Universe) unless they hit each other. But their space and time powers are shown to be great.
The thing is I still believe Team Digimon has this for many reasons. One; the next chapter regular Pokemon were able to tag those legendaries and some managed to push them back. Those regular pokemon aren't even close to being as fast or strong as Victory Greymon or ZeedGarurmon. Victory G-Mon managed to one shot a true universal easily and was able to land a critcal blow on Neo (He is nigh-omnipotent) someone who can destroy the universe(s) by himself in mere seconds. And he(Victory G-Mon) managed to survive a universal destruction (he was at the center of the blow.) Unless someone can provide with other scans then I say Team Digimon has this.
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Please don't use PIS to argue your points. It's already been established that only Pokemon on their level can contend with the Creation Trio.

WIY9OhK
 
What does that image have to do with anything? Please write what it is as I don't know.

Anyway so your logic "Here is a scan of them distorting the world (not universe yet), oh but wait don't look at the next page of regular pokemon managing to at least touch them it doesn't count." It's not a filler nor was it the writer's mistake, it's there. Nothing to be ashamed, they got touched and pushed back just a little. Does it make sense? That's another question for another debate, but it happened. They showed they can beat anything in that scene, but the stats are there. Using that it's obvious that team 2 has it.

Even if you want to take the "PIS" route, based on everything available they have shown to be a little less than FTL (That's being generous), while Team 2 is at least MFTL along with feats of surviving universal destruction and able to beat casual universe busters with ease (Barbamon.) These legendary trio combat feats haven't truly been shown, just been hyped. Given screen time it was nothing impressive, though their hax are there.

By the way the more that each is scene is "PIS" (when it's not) you are also taking away what their combat feats are which is going to be hard to judge. For example Arceus managed to blast one of the two (Palkia or Dialga) with a blast that was around Continent level and one of them were done for a good minute. Replace Arceus with any of the two Digimon and that legendary will never be getting up.
 
Is this like, a joke?

You can't determine the potency of an attack by how it "looks", otherwise most of DBZ wouldn't even be continent level. You're acting like Dialga's getting beaten up by a regular blizzard and not an attack shot at it by the God of pokemon.
 
So by that standard we should just go back and degrade Goku because even though the universe was shaking when he and Bills collided you say that the potency of an attack can't be determine by how it looks.

Looking at the surroundings is a way to calculate the damage. Throughout the battle those attacks were doing damage on the island and it can be seen.
 
That like...wasn't even the same train of thought. An attack that destroys a planet would have to have a minimum of planet level potency, but that doesn't mean it's the maximum. That's like assuming that every single punch ever that doesn't show crazy effects on the surrounding area is street level.
 
"You can't determine the potency of an attack by how it "looks", otherwise most of DBZ wouldn't even be continent level."

Me giving an example of how an attack (in DBS) looked is not in the same train of thought? *Scratches head*

I understand what you mean by the maximum and minimum, so tell me that attack that took Dialga down, what is it classified in terms of output that it took to take him down? I'm not trying to put down Arceus max power it's obvious it's around universal, but that attack was obviously not. I'm trying to prove the durability of Dialga is not high, which would then support my original statement that Team Digimon would have more than enough power along with speed to bring them down.

Also what are your thoughts on this battle? Who would win in your opinion and why.
 
Because obviously, how an attack "looks" would be the absolute minimum. It's really not a hard concept to understand.

Since it's an attack from an at least universal+ character done to another universal+ character, we can logically assume to potency to be universal+, even though the attack itself did not "look" universal+. This is what separates attack potency from destructive capacity.

As for the battle, I don't know. Victorygreymon has pretty good feats. Not as familiar with what Zeedgarurumon's done.
 
Zeedgarurmon has about the same stats as Victorygreymon, I remember him able to hurt Neo to some degree but I'll try to get some scans to prove it later tonight.
 
VSJudge said:
What does that image have to do with anything? Please write what it is as I don't know.
anyway so your logic "Here is a scan of them distorting the world (not universe yet), oh but wait don't look at the next page of regular pokemon managing to at least touch them it doesn't count." It's not a filler nor was it the writer's mistake, it's there. Nothing to be ashamed, they got touched and pushed back just a little. Does it make sense? That's another question for another debate, but it happened. They showed they can beat anything in that scene, but the stats are there. Using that it's obvious that team 2 has it.

Even if you want to take the "PIS" route, based on everything available they have shown to be a little less than FTL (That's being generous), while Team 2 is at least MFTL along with feats of surviving universal destruction and able to beat casual universe busters with ease (Barbamon.) These legendary trio combat feats haven't truly been shown, just been hyped. Given screen time it was nothing impressive, though their hax are there.

By the way the more that each is scene is "PIS" (when it's not) you are also taking away what their combat feats are which is going to be hard to judge. For example Arceus managed to blast one of the two (Palkia or Dialga) with a blast that was around Continent level and one of them were done for a good minute. Replace Arceus with any of the two Digimon and that legendary will never be getting up.
Click to expand...
The context of the scan I posted is: the protagonist was surprised that Dialga was injured before giving a statement implying that only a Pokemon on its level could harm it, proving such moments as PIS. Something that shouldn't be placed into question as they would literally kill each other upon every attack.

Your "Everything is fair game whether it is logical or not" makes no sense as almost every series have moments like these.

20151023172525


Pokemon, on this wiki are used at their maximum showings as a result.

I have no idea what you're even implying by "Take the PIS route" but regardless it's not appreciated nor is your assertion in downplaying their feats. Though they weren't destroying the Universe in the scan I posted (sorry about that) you've apparently read the manga and hence know they were destroying the Universe through physical battle...so...why the grasping.

Please also note that their method of Universal Destruction differs from media to media.
 
Sorry I've been seeing too many battles (not including this one) anyway. I'm just trying to understand that these two along with Giratina and Arceus has incredible hax, that's a given. However what bothers me is the lack of combat feat, I want to know how these were calculated. I'm still confused with Palkia and Dialga being Universal because that can only be when they fight each other and their respective unique abilities start reacting to each other. That can't be their attack potency in my opinion, but I'm eager to see what you have to say about that. I was a huge Pokemon fan, but kinda just dropped the ball after a while, but this is getting me back into it.

Anyway here's my last input hopefully;

Team 1 (Pokemon): Strongest being they fought was Arceus. Arceus whose durability at least Universal? Team 1 had help from Giratina and even then they couldn't really scratch the guy. Speed, I've read in other theads etc... that these two speed aren't that impressive, and honestly looking at everything available I agree.

Feats or things to conclude from their battle: They were able to go toe to toe with Arceus(Universal at that stage) even though they couldn't beat him.

Now looking at Team 2 (Digimon): First opponent that those two (really was VictoryGreymon) fought was Barbamon (Fused with Yggdrasil). Barbamon has the capability to dish out universal destruction as well as the durability of universal as well.

VictoryGreymon literally just went up to it and One-Shotted it, thus destroying the Universal Digimon.

Next Battle is with Neo another huge Universal, (he was at 1/8th of his power making me think what the heck is his true power, anyway...) Neo casually destroyed the Universe and made a new one becoming one with it. Both digimons were in the blast of the Universe destruction, but were not down (They were still in their mega forms.) Round 2 of this fight, Neo used a similar attack that has the DC of universe busting, but Victory Greymon took the hit on with his sword and brushed it off. Heck even Z-Garurumon managed to get a decent hit in. Anyway at the end V-Gmon managed to land a critical blow through Neo and at the end Neo accepted his fate.

Feats or things to conclude from this: On his combat speed and travel speed, V-Gmon is not doubt MFTL and has shown to easily beat a Universal as well as critically wound another bigger threat of Universal. Not to mention it has been stated that Z-Garurumon is his twin and is an Arbitrator (Supposed to keep Yggdrasil in check) Putting him at Universal, plus he was able to hurt Neo.

What I'm trying to get at, Dialga and Palkia were unable to do sufficient damage to a universal let alone beat him. Victory Greymon alone was able to destory the one who put him as an Arbitrator and giving the Z-Garururmon is one too he should have similar fire power. Comes down to will it be team pokemon with their hax abilities? Or will it come down to a quick one shotted blitz attack like it was done with Barbamon. And based on actual combat feat as well as pointing out before that the legendary trio doesn't have great speed, I'm giving it to Team Digimon.
 
VSJudge said:
Sorry I've been seeing too many battles (not including this one) anyway. I'm just trying to understand that these two along with Giratina and Arceus has incredible hax, that's a given. However what bothers me is the lack of combat feat, I want to know how these were calculated. I'm still confused with Palkia and Dialga being Universal because that can only be when they fight each other and their respective unique abilities start reacting to each other. That can't be their attack potency in my opinion, but I'm eager to see what you have to say about that. I was a huge Pokemon fan, but kinda just dropped the ball after a while, but this is getting me back into it.
Anyway here's my last input hopefully;

Team 1 (Pokemon): Strongest being they fought was Arceus. Arceus whose durability at least Universal? Team 1 had help from Giratina and even then they couldn't really scratch the guy. Speed, I've read in other theads etc... that these two speed aren't that impressive, and honestly looking at everything available I agree.

Feats or things to conclude from their battle: They were able to go toe to toe with Arceus(Universal at that stage) even though they couldn't beat him.

Now looking at Team 2 (Digimon): First opponent that those two (really was VictoryGreymon) fought was Barbamon (Fused with Yggdrasil). Barbamon has the capability to dish out universal destruction as well as the durability of universal as well.

VictoryGreymon literally just went up to it and One-Shotted it, thus destroying the Universal Digimon.

Next Battle is with Neo another huge Universal, (he was at 1/8th of his power making me think what the heck is his true power, anyway...) Neo casually destroyed the Universe and made a new one becoming one with it. Both digimons were in the blast of the Universe destruction, but were not down (They were still in their mega forms.) Round 2 of this fight, Neo used a similar attack that has the DC of universe busting, but Victory Greymon took the hit on with his sword and brushed it off. Heck even Z-Garurumon managed to get a decent hit in. Anyway at the end V-Gmon managed to land a critical blow through Neo and at the end Neo accepted his fate.

Feats or things to conclude from this: On his combat speed and travel speed, V-Gmon is not doubt MFTL and has shown to easily beat a Universal as well as critically wound another bigger threat of Universal. Not to mention it has been stated that Z-Garurumon is his twin and is an Arbitrator (Supposed to keep Yggdrasil in check) Putting him at Universal, plus he was able to hurt Neo.

What I'm trying to get at, Dialga and Palkia were unable to do sufficient damage to a universal let alone beat him. Victory Greymon alone was able to destory the one who put him as an Arbitrator and giving the Z-Garururmon is one too he should have similar fire power. Comes down to will it be team pokemon with their hax abilities? Or will it come down to a quick one shotted blitz attack like it was done with Barbamon. And based on actual combat feat as well as pointing out before that the legendary trio doesn't have great speed, I'm giving it to Team Digimon.
Click to expand...
pokedex entries and lore. minus the PIS meteor. Zinnia's dialogue. Dialga and palkia created the known multiverses in pokemon, arceus created them and giratina. They are the embodiments of space and time. we've had this conversation so many times on this wiki it isn't funny. just know that they will stay where they are. the things you are posting mean nothing as we've already gone through this.
 
I thought it was said that Arceus created these multiverses in pokemon giving Dialga and Palkia their own proper homes as well. I would also love to see these conversations as I can't find it on this wiki, just want to see what people said. Fact is there is no proper Combat Feat to support it, even if they have those feats, it's already been Shown that they don't have the strength/attacking capabilities of beating a universal as Arceus while the other two Digimon have plenty of showing of beating casual universals.

So tell me, would you rather go with a Team that has not have a feat of beating a universal? or a Team that has enough feats to prove it beat two universals?
 
Arceus created the creation trio and dialga and palkia created the universe together.While giratina was banished iirc.Arceus also created the lake trio and from then on the Pokemons had created the rest.That being said I don't recall any multiverses? Dialga and Palkia have their own dimensions however giratina has its own universe.Same goes for Arceus I believe.
 
Oh so it was Dialga and Palkia that created the universe cool, I assumed it was just Arceus that did it and just placed them there lol.

Anyway I remember some people saying that it was like The Universe, Dialga Dimension, Palkia Dimension, Giratina Dimension and something else that counted Arceus as a multiverse. Though I mean aren't they more pocket dimensions, not universal. But meh maybe someone with more Pokemon knowledge can clarify it for me? Anyway that's a bit side tracking as it has nothing to do with combat feats and I'm still waiting for proof of these Universal breaking attacks yet they couldn't damage Arceus.
 
Episode Delta from ORAS confirmed Pokémon as a Multiverse, though I dunno if that means Arceus can be upgraded or not or the others. It does mean these guys are at least Universe Level though.
 
Pikachu942 said:
Episode Delta from ORAS confirmed Pokémon as a Multiverse, though I dunno if that means Arceus can be upgraded or not or the others. It does mean these guys are at least Universe Level though.
Click to expand...
I looked and yeah you're right they're was another world confirmed
 
I mean Arceus fine yeah Universal or more. But Palkia and Dialga needs each other to be counted as universal I mean for me it's been stated that multiple times throughout the games and series. Giratina I don't know and right now is not important for this battle.

What are your guys input for this battle based on everything?
 
I personally think Pokémon win a close battle. They are all roughly equal in strength but Dialga and Palkia are literally time and space itself and have immeasurable speed, their hax and speed I think would be too much for the Digimon.
 
I mean yeah their hax are what separates these guys, but speed and strength is what I can't really say and is stopping me from saying they would win. How did their speed go from a low speed to now immeasureable was there a feat or something or was it grasping straws? Sorry if I keep repeating but I'm not really getting true feats and Neo was THE Universe and he was pierced right through by Victory Greymon, leading to his destruction. Neo separated Time and Space but was blitz by V-Gmon which makes me believe he and Zeed can easily do it to Dialga and Palkia.
 
In their unrestricted forms Dialga and Palkia become time and space itself, and are in a way everywhere at once. I honestly think it should be changed to semi-omnipresent or omnipresent but that's just me, immeasurable works fine as well.
 
You know I just realized this "Unrestricted form" on the thread lol, but yeah I've said it before I haven't been following much Pokemon after certain period of time. Can you show me a scan or feat of these Unrestricted forms so I can see for myself?
 
I believe it was Arceus who sealed them as if all 3 unrestricted went up against Arceus it would give him troubles he didn't want to be overtaken. I could be wrong though.
 
Hmm I mean again theres nothing to show these "Restricted powers" to be honest I really want to see this conversation that these people gave to explain this power, because I don't see it.
 
Pikachu942 said:
I believe it was Arceus whosealed them as if all 3 unrestricted went up against Arceus it would give him troubles he didn't want to be overtaken. I could be wrong though.
Click to expand...
...

That honestly reminds me of fiction I came across the other day. There is no explanation as to why they're sealed to my knowledge and if so, please provide evidence.
 
VSJudge said:
Hmm I mean again theres nothing to show these "Restricted powers" to be honest I really want to see this conversation that these people gave to explain this power, because I don't see it.
Click to expand...
Dude, stop. If you don't like the placing of these characters please make a separate discussion about this.
 
The Pokemons are now rated omnipresent given that they embody space and time.Though this is again in they're unrestricted forms and in the Pokemon verse as well.

I believe team digimon wins due to being casually universal and having greater speed however.
 
CHILLVIBEZZ said:
The Pokemons are now rated omnipresent given that they embody space and time.Though this is again in they're unrestricted forms and in the Pokemon verse as well.
I believe team digimon wins due to being casually universal and having greater speed however.
Click to expand...
This is unrestricted Dialga and Palkia as stated in the OP -_-

Meaning at least Universal+ aka higher DC...

Meaning Omnipresent aka higher Speed.
 
This is unrestricted Dialga and Palkia as stated in the OP -_-

Meaning at least Universal+ aka higher DC...

Meaning Omnipresent aka higher Speed.

I know.......
 
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