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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread 10

ParadoxIndifferent said:
Except it does. Common knowledge. Your point of view requires making a lot of assumptions, when it is a lot simpler and more straightforward to take the statements at face value.
Click to expand...
No, it does not. Every single event with the nexus has resulted into a building being affected at most the guy at the beginning that tried to rob Dante (forget his name), the event with the tree girl, the literal thing we are discussing right now. Only a single bar and you're making the giant leap of logic that affecting a single bar that took a while it wasn't even instantaneous = the whole universe is going to be affect in a single second, yeah sorry not how it works.

The statement is that the nexus's completion means he can access the entirety of the Demon World's power. The statement is not "I can now access my full power by virtue of being in the demonic dimension."
Except that's literally what the statement is.
 
"Fair? We're no longer in the human world. This nexus has become complete. Now I can access the full power of the demonic dimension!" =/= "I can now access my full power by virtue of being in the demonic dimension."
 
> No, it does not. Every single event with the nexus has resulted into a building being affected at most the guy at the beginning that tried to rob Dante (forget his name), the event with the tree girl, the literal thing we are discussing right now. Only a single bar and you're making the giant leap of logic that affecting a single bar that took a while it wasn't even instantaneous = the whole universe is going to be affect in a single second, yeah sorry not how it works.

Don't construct strawman against me.

I never said the whole universe would be affected in a single second. Considering the nature of this feat, only a relatively short duration is necessary for it to be 3-A.

> Except that's literally what the statement is.

Really?

"Fair? We're no longer in the human world. This nexus has now become complete. I can now access the full power of the demonic dimension."

I don't see the part where he says he can access his full power because he is now in the demon world. Nor do I see why the nexus would have anything to do with it.

Prove your claims.
 
Also, Gilver was never implied to get weaker or be weakened by being in the human world.Dante was the one that ever gotten weakened from being in the Demon World and that was because he stayed in the human world for too long.
 
ParadoxIndifferent said:
Don't construct strawman against me.

I never said the whole universe would be affected in a single second. Considering the nature of this feat, only a relatively short duration is necessary for it to be 3-A.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you finally conceded that it's an unquantifiable timeframe, finally we can move on.

Really?
"Fair? We're no longer in the human world. This nexus has now become complete. I can now access the full power of the demonic dimension."

I don't see the part where he says he can access his full power because he is now in the demon world. Nor do I see why the nexus would have anything to do with it.

Prove your claims.
Ok baby steps.

Human World = weak Gilver


Demon World = strong Gilver


Nexus = no Human World


Nexus = Demon World


Nexus = strong Gilver
 
> I'm glad you finally conceded that it's an unquantifiable timeframe, finally we can move on.

Yep - with the knowledge that it would still be 3-A we can move on because it doesn't matter.

> Ok baby steps.

Nexus = Complete

Full Power of the Demonic Dimension = Gilver

Gilver = Moving the worlds together

There. Much more summed up, much simpler.

But, you see, this kind of circularity and repeating claims without providing scans doesn't lead into anywhere, so I want to ask again - provide evidence.
 
I am making a post on a relatively controversial DMC subject right now - mainly the identity of Pluto, the guy mentioned on the DMC1 legends and who is hotly debated on who he is and whether his feats scale to the rest of the verse, and will post it here for evaluation.

I have gathered evidence that I think points at the fact that Pluto is, in fact, the black-horned demon with the spear in the DMC3 manga who is often thought to be either Sparda or Mundus
 
First of all, I am sure you all recall this very controversial scan from the Devil May Cry 3 manga's official translation, which mentions Heaven and Earth being at war, the link between Heaven and Earth being rendered unstable and the Demon World being spawned from said link, and slaughtering many humans as a result.

VBWPost1
Now, this had always struck me as a very weird DMC legend. Not only is something like this never alluded to in the series ever again, but it heavily contradicts several plot points, such as the existence of a literal, separate "Heaven" with angels, which Itsuno himself has stated not to exist on DMC, it contradicts the omniscient narrator's version of the events, which states that the Demon World came before the Human World and, in fact, was responsible for spawning the Human World, and it also mentions some sort of war on Heaven that is never carried forward.

So I decided to take a look at the Devil Lair's scanlation. Devil Lair has its ups and downs, but their version of this page is significantly different from the Official Translation, and it actually fits in rather nicely in with the lore of the franchise, and doesn't actually contradict any plot points established on any other medium of the series:

MdmmF7m
After downloading the Raw Japanese manga, I set out to ask a native Japanese speaker on this wiki of which one of these two were more accurate, or if either of them were in fact, accurate at all. To my non-surprise, I was told that the Devil's Lair version was the more accurate of the two in this particular page. Credits to Shiro for confirming this.

Here, the translators note that "Heaven" referred to in the page is just another word for the Demon World. So any contradictions about a literal heaven with angels arising from this page are dealt with right away.

Now, the scan states that there was a lot of pandemonium and chaos spilling between the border of the Human World and the Demon World, and that the Earth was torn apart with great rents whenever "the wrath of heaven poured down on them", resulting in many lives being lost. Many DMC fans believe that this page is talking about Mundus's invasion on the Human World. But is it?

Notice the fact that the scan specifies those events took place during the birth of Heaven and Earth. Let's revisit the prologue/introduction for the Devil May Cry 3 manga, shall we?

Devil-may-cry-3-1644919
And thus we arrive on the conclusion that it's not talking about the invasion by Mundus's armies - this tale is in fact expanding on what was stated by the narrator in the prologue of the manga, before the Human World and the Demon World were separated, the first chronological event in the series. So, going by this scan, back when these two worlds were still one, there was great pandemonium and chaos caused by distortions and instabilities spilling from the side of the Demon World/Heaven to the Earth.

This brings me to the very next page after this one. This time, we swap back to the Official Translation, which was confirmed by professional translators over Reddit to be more accurate on this particular page.

Devil-may-cry-3-1645036
The one introducing the black-horned demon. We are told that, at the time heaven and earth were rent asunder (ie. divided in two), this demon emerged from the darkness, and hammered this spike into the Earth so that heaven and earth "would never again be split apart."

Now, notice that, in both translations, this demon is referred to as a "Demon God'. Only four demons were ever awarded such a title on the series; Argosax, Mundus, Urizen and the unnamed demon king killed by Mundus - and all four of them happened to share the trait of being Demon Kings/Demonic Emperors.

Now, recall what was stated about Pluto on DMC1:

  • "Pluto shall come on the promised date and separate heaven and earth. One with black wings of treachery shall come and stand in Pluto's way."
With all of this together - I conclude that Pluto is, in fact, the black-horned Demon God with a spear, the ruler of the Underworld at the time. Back when the two worlds were one, he emerged from the Demon World and used this spear to separate both worlds -just as stated on the prologue. We know this is not referring to Sparda because those events happened even before Mundus's birth altogether.

Since those scans are the only times Heaven is mentioned in the series, it makes sense that they'd all fit in together.
 
This is great and clears up alotta past confusion/contradictions but what does this mean overall? Is the Demon God Mundus usurped Pluto? Is Mundus the "black wings of treachery"?
 
Yeah, the Demon God Mundus killed would be Pluto under that scenario, as he would be the only Demon King whose existence is confirmed to have taken place before Mundus's rule.

I have always thought the black wings of treachery to be Mundus, yes. It is also mentioned that he chained an undying being to this spear, so it might be referring to someone else, but it'd most likely be Mundus.
 
Makes sense can you put it in a blog and have it linked on the verses page? I know this topic was used as "proof" against universal DMC due to weird interpretation
 
If a DMC game ever explores hell I want to fight the true forms of lesser demons instead of fake bodies, they sound like they are really strong
 
By the way, I also contacted a few Japanese translators over the past few days to see if this sca was translated accurately.

The word-for-word translation apparently is:

  • The king who appeared in the kingdom of darkness said...
  • What is wrong with reuniting these worlds that were once one?
  • From then on, the darkness tried to cover up the light, while the light struggled (or "fought back") and tried to escape...
This fits with the interpretation that they were merged, as "covering" in this context most likely means "assimilate/consume"
 
heh this clears up the confusion and maybe we can add more things. But does this mean that pluto split both demon and human world right? (just to be clear here)
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
heh this clears up the confusion and maybe we can add more things. But does this mean that pluto split both demon and human world right? (just to be clear here)
Click to expand...
Yes.
 
hm nice though the next thing we need to know is if space time was involved (ik ik but well its gonna be asked anyway)
 
Also, shouldn't it be pointed out that the Human World and the Demon World are merged on the Volume 2 parallel universe where Mundus won?

Upon Dante's arrival he notices that the place is desolate and feels extremely similar to the Demon World in air and energy, and that it reminds him of Gilver. Then it is later stated by Shadow that the Human World is completely corrupted beyond recognition.
 
Honestly, from what i've gathered the feats presented by Paradox in his thread are really solid, we should probably try and contact someone in order to have them put on the character pages
 
ParadoxIndifferent said:
Also, shouldn't it be pointed out that the Human World and the Demon World are merged on the Volume 2 parallel universe where Mundus won?
Upon Dante's arrival he notices that the place is desolate and feels extremely similar to the Demon World in air and energy, and that it reminds him of Gilver. Then it is later stated by Shadow that the Human World is completely corrupted beyond recognition.
Click to expand...
They aren't merged completely because there is still a demon world which is where Alt Mundus chooses to reside.Its the human world but severely warped and corrupted by demonic influence.
 
Interesting enough, it's mostly demons fighting demons.The resistance against Mundus is based in the demon world with Eva as it's leader but for some reason the resistance go to the "human world" to invade Mundus' area and in order to get to Mundus they go back into the demon world.It's stupid but funny to note.
 
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...Devil_May_Cry:_Feats_Summarized_and_Explained

Here is my finished blog on the more solid feats. Most of the content is from the thread I made a few weeks back, but I have added the new scans I came across on my research and replaced the final section with Kep's post & expanded on it a little.

I am currently investigating a potential feat from the Qliphoth of distorting the Human World and fusing it with the Demon World (where have we heard that before, huh) to add to the blog. There is also Gilver's feat which needs input.

Maybe Mundus's feat could be rediscussed too after everything is sorted out (don't curse me and my lineage for saying this), the new guidebok scan that was found reinforcing its validity does make it more likely, and Mundus's feat being valid would give us two different feats, since the dimension faded and collapsed upon his defeat, meaning he would scale from both creating it and it being busted after his loss.

Those 8 feats speak for themselves tho
 
Makes sense that Pluto was overthrown by Mundus, he originally was not a strong demon that likely opposed Pluto's idea and needed the fruit to overthrow him. The only glimps we have of Sparda's fighting is here.
 
Credo and Agnus should get an update since they scale to Nero yet they're still 7-B when Nero is 7-A

Also the justification for Blitz durability is "he took hits from Nero" even though Nero stopped being Low 7-B a long time ago
 
I'm not talking about when the storm was created I'm talking about when in Deadly Fortune Novel Dagon tries to impress Dante by calling off the Blizzard just by breathing within seconds which you can sorta see in DMC4 when he goes into or comes out of hiding.
 
Btw I managed to finish 3 and well... Royal guard is Hard AF against Vergil in the third phase. When my exams die down I'll try to make a CRT regarding some stuff in the games.
 
Dante Demon Killah said:
Agnus was literally scared of Nero and Credo was casually defeated by him
They should scale to Echidna, not Nero
Click to expand...
Agnus and Credo are stronger than Echidna, but far weaker than EoG Nero.
 
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