[Demon Slayer] Massive Upgrade

[KnyRaizn]

"Flash of light" is commonly used as a metaphorical expression. You also have to think that there's no feats in the verse that come close to SOL.

"Flash of light" is commonly used as a metaphorical expression. You also have to think that there's no feats in the verse that come close to SOL.

I don't think so however.
It's not a context in which you can say it could be a figure of speech

- It is not a random movement of a character, and another admits that it is at the speed of light, it is not a very fast movement and it is said it seems as fast as light or at the speed of light with some exclamation points. it is a new technique and it is explained how it works and its speed, to say that it is a rhetorical figure to remove a feat where there is no context that it is and also it is not contradicted I don't see the reason.

Furthermore "As fast as", as per the meaning, AS precisely means:

“similarity / equally with or in which / equally / not less than / introducing or expressing a result or consequence / Denoting sameness or similarity in nature.

Furthermore, "as" is used precisely to express an equality, if you notice when an author uses a rhetorical figure he tends to point it out narratively too, it makes no sense to say that it is a rhetorical figure when we have 0 context both to assume it and to prove it.

For example, the author with Gyokko we see that Gyokko says: I transcend the laws of nature...
Obviously this is a figure of speech, we have a context where Gyokko shows his true form and becomes convinced that he is very strong, he likes his form etc and the author makes us understand, at that moment he is explaining a technique, where explains how fast it is and how it works, it makes no sense to say that it is a figure of speech.

Anyway that's another statement, now we're speaking about MSH+ statements.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Key statement: Assistance in production.
The novel is based off the manga, meaning secondary canon. I.e. anything in the novel not in the manga, is not accepted as canon here

There is no reason why it shouldn't... It is literally followed by the author therefore it is automatically Canon, logically for particular statements or particular sentences the author was behind it, it makes no sense to say that it is not canon since it And.

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

perform lightning-fast feats.

flowery language.

Secondly, the breathing styles don't directly emit nor force elements into existence... they are illusory as shown by WoG here

See and feel it; this would include sounds like thunder

If they are MHS+

How did Mitsuri get hit with sound?

How did Rengoku struggle with bullets in his spin off?

Why is the time until sunrise an issue? At Mach 1 ish you could outrun the sunrise or at least run so it doesn't keep coming up, rather than need time to escape as shown by even upper moons that they have to start leaving before the sunrise (Akaza vs Rengoku)

movement as fast as the wind

What in the world does this even mean??? The wind can vary greatly if it were something more evident like "Wind that could sunder a building apart" we could gauge that.

stated lightning speed. Manga version.

Novelization doesn't prove it is actually 'the speed of lightning' which can also vary btw of where it would fall in the low end to high end.. but even the average doesn't make sense.


There is also Muzan getting tagged by the explosion which runs into some issues too. Check chapters 137 - 139 nothing mentions the explosion being special in terms of it's speed that would imply it to be faster than lightning

That explosion is a detonation, which in solids, would range from Mach 11.66 to Mach 30.02 This would further solidify the blitz to the lower moon he did while healthy if we assume he is Mach 1280 for lightning timing MHS+ it doesn't make sense as he would at least have been able to react to it. Because the difference is literally 1282.80/30.02 = 42.73 and that's assuming the explosion was on the high end for a detonation. There is nothing to suggest the power of the explosion was special in and of itself, just the things it was laced with. If a God tier can't react to an explosion like that and it is not mentioned as special regarding the speed or force of the detonation wave or the explosion in general, I don't think we should be considering higher speeds.

I will have to disagree.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

How did Mitsuri get hit with sound?

How did Rengoku struggle with bullets in his spin off?

Are you suggesting a downgrade to something like Transonic or Supersonic?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Are you suggesting a downgrade to something like Transonic or Supersonic?

I mean with the whole "at Mach 1 ish you could outrun the sunrise or at least run so it doesn't keep coming up" thing, probably even lower - a sentiment I can't stand with given the actual feats

Still, "lightning fast" is a frequent statement used to indicate fast movement rather than actually moving at the speed of lightning, so I'd disagree with the MHS+ upgrade

 

[PrinceofPein]

There is no reason why it shouldn't... It is literally followed by the author therefore it is automatically Canon, logically for particular statements or particular sentences the author was behind it, it makes no sense to say that it is not canon since it And.

Works endorsed by the author which is not the source materials are called secondary canon.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Canon

Generally anything in them that is in the source material is canon i.e. they can be used for clarification e.g. a feat that is not well depicted in the manga, if the anime is endorsed by the author, the depiction of the feat in the anime can be used so as long as it does not contradict anything in the manga. What is not allowed is a feat or event that did not happen at all.

 

[KnyRaizn]

flowery language.

Secondly, the breathing styles don't directly emit nor force elements into existence... they are illusory as shown by WoG here

See and feel it; this would include sounds like thunder


If they are MHS+
How did Mitsuri get hit with sound?

How did Rengoku struggle with bullets in his spin off?

Why is the time until sunrise an issue? At Mach 1 ish you could outrun the sunrise or at least run so it doesn't keep coming up, rather than need time to escape as shown by even upper moons that they have to start leaving before the sunrise (Akaza vs Rengoku)


What in the world does this even mean??? The wind can vary greatly if it were something more evident like "Wind that could sunder a building apart" we could gauge that.

Novelization doesn't prove it is actually 'the speed of lightning' which can also vary btw of where it would fall in the low end to high end.. but even the average doesn't make sense.


There is also Muzan getting tagged by the explosion which runs into some issues too. Check chapters 137 - 139 nothing mentions the explosion being special in terms of it's speed that would imply it to be faster than lightning

That explosion is a detonation, which in solids, would range from Mach 11.66 to Mach 30.02 This would further solidify the blitz to the lower moon he did while healthy if we assume he is Mach 1280 for lightning timing MHS+ it doesn't make sense as he would at least have been able to react to it. Because the difference is literally 1282.80/30.02 = 42.73 and that's assuming the explosion was on the high end for a detonation. There is nothing to suggest the power of the explosion was special in and of itself, just the things it was laced with. If a God tier can't react to an explosion like that and it is not mentioned as special regarding the speed or force of the detonation wave or the explosion in general, I don't think we should be considering higher speeds.

I will have to disagree.

- Mitsuri is hit because she is in the air and she also reacts by strengthening her muscles.


- That thing only talks about effects, i.e. when Tomioka uses breathing no water really comes out it's just a stage effect.

- Running Speed is not Combat Speed, and furthermore the characters i.e. the Demons are worried about the sunlight because a few beams are enough to be instantly burned, furthermore even if let's say this were not true it would still mean nothing as running speed is not equivalent to combat speed

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Secondly, the breathing styles don't directly emit nor force elements into existence... they are illusory as shown by WoG here

I think no one here is arguing these characters are MHS+ because of their breathings techniques, but because the novels and databook state they move at "lightning speeds".

How did Mitsuri get hit with sound?

Because she was in the middle of the air and therefore unable to dodge, she was also unable to block as she got hit by an AOE attack, plus she was moving towards Zohakuten, thus from her perspective sound waves were moving faster than sound by an unknown magnitude (relative speed). She was still able to react though, as Zohakuten explicitly stated she "tensed up all her muscles" so she could resist the attack.
Curiously enough, every time someone got hit by these sound-waves, they were either in midair, or restrained by Hantengu.

How did Rengoku struggle with bullets in his spin off?

He didn't, he literally blocked several dozen bullets after being shot by surprise, then he sliced a few of these bullets at the same time he was dodging and running through them, then he either dodged or blocked (the manga isn't clear enough to tell which one was it) more of them at point-blank. The only moment he kind of struggled with bullets was when he was charging towards Hairo and he pulled a gatling-gun out of nowhere, it should be noted that by that time Rengoku had taken some important damage from the explosion he tanked at point-blank, plus the fact he was running towards Hairo implies again the bullets were moving faster from Rengoku’s perspective, but even so he blocked a few of these and then we see him advancing towards Hairo while cutting the bullets in the process. I’d say the gaiden actually shows Rengoku had little to no problem when it comes to blocking or dodging bullets.

Why is the time until sunrise an issue? At Mach 1 ish you could outrun the sunrise or at least run so it doesn't keep coming up, rather than need time to escape as shown by even upper moons that they have to start leaving before the sunrise (Akaza vs Rengoku)

I think this is a hasty generalization. Considering Akaza was impressed by the fact that Rengoku could restrain him, I’d say he was frightened because he didn't knew if he'd manage to run away in time. So, he was most likely not worried about the speed of the sunrise, but if he’d manage to free himself before the sunlight could reach him.

There is also Muzan getting tagged by the explosion which runs into some issues too. Check chapters 137 - 139 nothing mentions the explosion being special in terms of it's speed that would imply it to be faster than lightning

There is little to no information on what happened there, we first see Muzan talking with Ubuyashiki, then the mansion is exploding, nothing else. We don't know whether the mansion was filled with explosives, which would mean Muzan was surrounded and therefore escaping was impossible; nor how far away was Muzan from the epicenter of the explosion, which is a vital point as the speed of the shockwave is highly dependent on the value of this parameter. There is also the fact that special gunpowder does exists on the verse, so there would be no reason to believe they didn’t used that against Muzan.
The same way you need solid evidence and information to upgrade a character or verse, you need solid evidence and information to do the contrary (downgrade them), and there is simply not enough evidence nor information about what happened when Muzan got caught into the explosion of Ubuyashiki’s mansion.

 

[Passersby]

flowery language.

Secondly, the breathing styles don't directly emit nor force elements into existence... they are illusory as shown by WoG here

See and feel it; this would include sounds like thunder

citation for the bolded part, i don't see anything that includes or implies auditory illusions in the scan and it doesn't even make sense , the entire reason why people perceive the elements is because they perceive the motion and produce a psychological illusion by being reminded of the element by the motion, tanjiro is too far away from Zenitsu to see him or get any sort of effect out of it, and he explicitly hears the sound of thunder both times Zenitsu uses the effect even when he would have no way of knowing that Zenitsu is fighting unless you're arguing that Tanjiro could hear with his normal senses from across the mountain with enough detail to sense the way in which Zenitsu moved, there's no reason that he would have that psychological reaction

the whole people see and feel water when Water Breathing is used in front of them is not magic, it's a psychological effect. It doesn't magically insert visions into people's brains even when they have no way of perceiving the use of the Breathing technique, and it makes no sense anyway because Tanjiro never comments about it when Zenitsu uses normal Thunderclap and Flash, such as in Kyogai's house.,he never says "there's the sound of thunder" despite being within the same range or closer.

The only possible explanation that is consistent with anything we're shown is that Zenitsu broke the sound barrier in this scene, that's it

How did Mitsuri get hit with sound?

she was dashing towards the attack mid air at top speed having a single objective, which is slicing zohakkuten's head off, from her prespective the attack was moving towards her at her own speed plus the speed of sound, Hantengu also shows that he can effectively use soundwaves even against enemies fast enough to dodge by lifting them into the air or pinning them down, there was not a single instance of someone getting blitzed by the soundwaves, only reason they were even hit is because they were in no position to dodge to begin with

How did Rengoku struggle with bullets in his spin off?

because he wasn't even pillar level by then?

the current pillars can blitz hoards of lower moon level opponents and cut them like lawn mower cuts grass and that rengoku was struggling for dear life against lower moon 2

that's not even mentioning the dozens of guns hairo had in his arsenal, blocking that many projectiles or even approaching someone constantly showering you with several dozen bullets is hard, to say the least especially when you want to close the distance and thus actively move towards his geenral direction and increase the speed of the bullets relative to yours
of course, this also ignoring the fact that he blocked several dozen bullets after being shot by surprise, and sliced said bullets at the same time he was dodging and running through them

if anything the prequal shows rengoku having an easy time handling guns rather than showing any struggle

Why is the time until sunrise an issue? At Mach 1 ish you could outrun the sunrise or at least run so it doesn't keep coming up, rather than need time to escape as shown by even upper moons that they have to start leaving before the sunrise (Akaza vs Rengoku)

...because they don't want to die, when was it even established that it was an issue?

they're just afraid of the sun so they don't take their chances?

not sure how this is supposed to invalidates much of anything

There is also Muzan getting tagged by the explosion which runs into some issues too. Check chapters 137 - 139 nothing mentions the explosion being special in terms of it's speed that would imply it to be faster than lightning

i believe i already covered this before, and @FelpeXDopZ did a good job explaining this anyways so i don't have to

arguing tax, here is daki managing to outspeed an explosion that's already underway by reaching gyutaro, climbing on top of him, then putting a defense surrounding them with her biwa before the explosion reaches them

 

[Syncornize]

Are you suggesting a downgrade to something like Transonic or Supersonic?

i think they are faster than that.

 

[KnyRaizn]

I mean with the whole "at Mach 1 ish you could outrun the sunrise or at least run so it doesn't keep coming up" thing, probably even lower - a sentiment I can't stand with given the actual feats

Still, "lightning fast" is a frequent statement used to indicate fast movement rather than actually moving at the speed of lightning, so I'd disagree with the MHS+ upgrade

I think that can't be the case, because by narrative Lightning's breathing makes you have movements like those of Lightning

I should remind you of these Rengoku feats and calculations. And there is a SOS statement at chaper 21.

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

That explosion is a detonation, which in solids, would range from Mach 11.66 to Mach 30.02 This would further solidify the blitz to the lower moon he did while healthy if we assume he is Mach 1280 for lightning timing MHS+ it doesn't make sense as he would at least have been able to react to it. Because the difference is literally 1282.80/30.02 = 42.73 and that's assuming the explosion was on the high end for a detonation. There is nothing to suggest the power of the explosion was special in and of itself, just the things it was laced with. If a God tier can't react to an explosion like that and it is not mentioned as special regarding the speed or force of the detonation wave or the explosion in general, I don't think we should be considering higher speeds.

I don't see this as a valid source for downgrades, we must take into account that Muzan was explicitly told that he did not expect the explosion, in addition to that, characters much inferior to him reacted to explosions calmly, disregarding factors that would greatly increase the character's speed, the last time the character appears in the manga, she shows her bands fully retracted, and in the face of the explosion, she managed to stretch her enough to form a cocoon with several turns.

I must add that in addition to the information in a comment above about bombs being special (a statement coming from Gyutaro), we can take into account that Ubuyashiki modified the characteristics of the bomb, thus ceasing it to be a "normal" bomb.

 

[Passersby]

i think they are faster than that.

characters far slower than the one showed can block those shot gun bullets from close range

this is from a past thread(note that these characters are all peers to the one who blocked the bullets above)

tanjiro is struck by karaku's wind attack, which blows him a significant distance away from Sekido, we can see that in this page, tanjiro isn't even in sight, then in the next page, he blitzes sekido so quickly that Sekido can't even look down before his arm is severed. Then immediately on the next page, he blitzes urogi so quickly that he doesn't even feel he's been cut before he realizes that tanjiro is behind him

and later when genya's about to be impaled by sekido's staff which inches away from him and tanjiro is nowhere in sight,tanjiro then appears out of nowhere and sekido's hand is severed at the wrist so quickly we don't see the blade or even a swing

i bleive given the information we have on the series (like kyogai's explicit transonic attacks in season 1)that it's safe to say that gun being supernatural and thus the bullet's veolcity being unkown is a given, but honestly i don't really feel like arguing for it rn so

well, hope you've been doing well anyways lol

edit: links stopped working, hold on

should be good now

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think that can't be the case, because by narrative Lightning's breathing makes you have movements like those of Lightning

That just says it makes you move fast...

 

[KnyRaizn]

Questo dice solo che ti fa muovere velocemente...

"Lightning fast movements"

 

[Robespierre_Isidore]

Are you suggesting a downgrade to something like Transonic or Supersonic?

With how one of the strongest in the verse is not be able deal with detonations and everyone doesn't scale to a healthy him from what we see
How the rise of the sun is a notable concern for demons throughout the whole series...
The fact a large portion of demons can't handle shotgun blasts speed (modern shotguns shoot between mach 0.9 and 1.4)
And the litany of other issues in its current speed scaling? (i.e. the angles of the attack and amount of the fish cut in the fish attack the calc also notably having issues)
Some of the other MHS calcs also have low ends that aren't even Mach 100 (the entry for MHS speeds)

I think the series peaks around Hypersonic/High Hypersonic given the Mach 10 feat has nothing wrong with it from what I've seen. but most of it should be in the supersonic ranges tbh for the higher end characters, Upper Moon 1 can deflect bullets however Akaza needs to take time to run out of the sunlight meaning he's likely unsure if he can outrun it there are obvious faster than sound feats I just don't see reasons for MHS or MHS+ like the point originally brings up is valid for notable reasons... I see however this has caused some confusion. My apologies for the such.

with given the actual feats

No I fully understand that, I think the high end on the NOAA Sunrise calculator I used was Mach 1.3 roughly which took into account the day/time of year etc and again I think that's why they have to turn tail before it's up for the demons who aren't fast enough to scale faster won't outrun the sun basically. I just think the


I went away to have a meal and am here to clear some things up

Mitsuri is hit because she is in the air and she also reacts by strengthening her muscles.

No she doesn't even react to the the attack the demon says 'because of her special constitution' chapter 123 page 11(bottom left panel)

He didn't, he literally blocked several dozen bullets after being shot by surprise, then he sliced a few of these bullets at the same time he was dodging and running through them, then he either dodged or blocked (the manga isn't clear enough to tell which one was it) more of them at point-blank.

Cool that's one of the things I'm fine with as the speeds accepted off that calc are under mach 10 iirc I just don't agree with their current speed scaling in the MHS nor the premise of the proposal being MHS+

Demons are worried about the sunlight because a few beams are enough to be instantly burned

Right the rays of the sun actually are involved with the sunrise which is part of the reason the rate of the sunrise comes into consideration as if they can fight they should be able to at least theoretically move with relative speed to their combat speed unless shown/stated otherwise which makes this point something to note. However I will say that's fine if you want to say the martial artist runs vastly slower than his ability to fight sure I guess, this still doesn't change much outside of

i think they are faster than that.

definitely agree they are above the speed of sound at least at that level. However note that modern shotguns shoot pellets at these speeds (Mach .98 and Mach 1.42)

I do agree Upper moon 1 was able to block and seemlessly deflect this is note my point they just should not be MHS (Mach 100+) speeds

stated she "tensed up all her muscles" so she could resist the attack.

again see above scan about it being her constitution.

he didn't knew if he'd manage to run away in time

You say that and I will offer you these panels from the before mentioned fight chapter 65 page 10 and page 13

"I need to get far away from the sun" and "I am not running from the Demon Slayer corps- I'm runing from the SUN!" both of those imply he is either not inherently capable of outpacing the sunrise or he can move at least Mach 1.3 because he needs to run for as he stops he will die to it. As you go north or south of the equator the sunrise is slower, so he could be faster than the local sunrise's speed, I do think he is faster than the sunrise just not astronomically so, nor do I think he fights at those speeds. If he is indeed a martial artsist trained all of himself his combat speed shouldn't be too outstripped from his travel speed.

fun piece for posterity.

broke the sound barrier in this scene

no issues with breaking the sound barrier, we don't see the sonic boom however nor do we the motion superscede the sound the sound very well in the manga (also kid next to him should have gone deaf from that but still)

youtube link for the scene, you can argue he's roughly above the speed of sound but not MHS nor greater than 10, around the 48 second mark to the 53 second mark, if we take this as charitable as possible he leaps at the end of the 48th second and arrives before the sound at 52nd second.
Again fine with that. Just shouldn't be MHS and should be brought lower like Supersonic-Hypersonic ranges for most of these characters

outspeed an explosion

Note not all explosions move the same speed. Tiny balls like that while definitely solid based explosives the detonation wave is carried in the air that sort of detonation wave gets. Muzan notably points out the size hence why I suggested the Mach 30 speeds above for the Mansion explosion. Note "those are special explosions they can inflict damage to a demons body and explode from the slightest friction", next the 35 second mark shows the light illiuminating Daki and Gyutaro however this does not appear in the manga as here is the scene chapter 86 pages 17, 18, 19

We don't see them react to the explosion in the manga meaning the scene isn't built upon, like the effects for the Zenitsu piece, but added in ergo not canon.

In summary: I aim to point out the stronger characters as mentioned throughout this thread are no less than transonic speeds, most of them are faster than sound however none of them should be MHS or MHS+.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Con il modo in cui uno dei più forti del verso non è in grado di affrontare le detonazioni e tutti non si ridimensionano a un sano lui da ciò che vede
Come l'ascesa del sole è una nota di preoccupazione per i demoni durante l'intera serie...
Il fatto che gran parte dei demoni non riesca a gestire la velocità delle esplosioni di fucili da caccia (i moderni fucili da caccia sparano tra mach 0.9 e 1.4)
E la litania di altri problemi nel suo attuale ridimensionamento della velocità? (cioè gli angoli dell'attacco e la quantità di pesce tagliata nel pesce attaccano il calcolo anche a questi problemi)
Alcuni degli altri calcoli MHS hanno anche estremità basse che non sono nemmeno Mach 100 (la voce per le velocità MHS)

Penso che la serie raggiunga il picco di Hypersonic / High Hypersonic dato che Mach 10 feat non ha nulla di sbagliato in ciò che ho visto. ma la maggior parte dovrebbe trovarsi nelle gamme supersoniche per i caratteri di fascia alta, Upper Moon 1 può deviare i proiettili, tuttavia Akaza deve impiegare del tempo per rimanere fuori dalla luce del sole, il che significa che probabilmente non è sicuro se può superarlo, ci sono evidenti più velocemente delle prodezze sonore semplicemente non vedere i motivi di MHS o MHS + come il punto originariamente sollevato è valido per notevoli motivi... Vedo tuttavia che questo ha causato un po 'di confusione. Mi scuso per questo.


No, lo capisco perfettamente, penso che il limite massimo del calcolatore NOAA Sunrise che ho usato sia stato Mach 1.3 all'incirca che ha tenuto conto del giorno/periodo dell'anno ecc. e di nuovo penso che sia per questo che devono girare la coda prima che sia per i demoni che non sono abbastanza veloci da scalare più velocemente non supereranno sostanzialmente il sole. Penso solo al


Sono andato via per mangiare e sono qui per chiarire alcune cose


No, non reagisce nemmeno all'attacco che il demone dice "a causa della sua costituzione speciale" capitolo 123 pagina 11 (pannello in basso a sinistra)

Fantastico, questa è una delle cose con cui sto bene poiché le velocità accettate dal calcolo sono sotto mach 10 iirc. Non sono d'accordo con il loro attuale ridimensionamento della velocità nell'MHS né nel la premessa della proposta è MHS +

Proprio i raggi del sole sono effettivamente coinvolti con l'alba che fa parte del motivo per cui il tasso dell'alba viene preso in considerazione come se potessero combattere dovrebbero essere in grado almeno teoricamente spostarsi con la velocità relativa alla velocità di combattimento, a meno che non sia mostrato / dichiarato diversamente, il che rende questo punto qualcosa da notare. Comunque dirò che va bene se vuoi dire che l'artista marziale corre molto più lentamente della sua capacità di combattere, credo, questo non cambia ancora molto al di fuori di


sono assolutamente d'accordo che sono al di sopra della velocità del suono almeno a quel livello. Tuttavia, si noti che i moderni fucili da caccia sparano pellet a queste velocità (Mach .98 e Mach 1.42)

Sono d'accordo che Upper Moon 1 è stato in grado di bloccare e deviare apparentemente questo è notare che il mio punto non dovrebbe essere velocità MHS (Mach 100 +)


vedi di nuovo sopra la scansione che è la sua costituzione.

Lo dici tu e ti offrirò questi pannelli dal precedente capitolo 65 pagina 10 e pagina 13

"Devo allontanarmi dal sole" e "Non sto scappando dal corpo di Demon Slayer - Sto correndo dal sole!" entrambi implicano che non è intrinsecamente in grado di superare l'alba o può spostare almeno Mach 1.3 perché deve correre perché si ferma per morire esso. Mentre vai a nord o a sud dell'equatore, l'alba è più lenta, quindi potrebbe essere più veloce della velocità dell'alba locale, Penso che sia più veloce dell'alba non solo astronomicamente, né penso che combatta a quelle velocità. Se è davvero un artista marziale addestrato da solo, la sua velocità di combattimento non dovrebbe essere troppo superata dalla sua velocità di viaggio.

pezzo divertente per i posteri.

nessun problema con la rottura della barriera del suono, non vediamo il boom sonico, tuttavia, né il movimento sostituisce il suono del suono molto bene nel manga (anche il bambino accanto a lui avrebbe dovuto diventare sordo da quello ma comunque)

[MEDIA = youtube] pefjYbofncg [/ MEDIA] link youtube per la scena, puoi sostenere che è approssimativamente al di sopra della velocità del suono ma non MHS né maggiore di 10, intorno al segno di 48 secondi al segno di 53 secondi, se lo consideriamo il più caritatevole possibile, salta alla fine del 48 ° secondo e arriva prima del suono al 52 ° secondo.
Ancora una volta bene con quello. Non dovrebbe essere MHS e dovrebbe essere ridotto come le gamme supersonico-ipersoniche per la maggior parte di questi personaggi


Nota che non tutte le esplosioni sono state alla velocità. Palline così come gli esplosivi a base decisamente solida, l'onda di detonazione viene trasportata nell'aria che ottiene il tipo di onda di detonazione. Muzan sottolinea in particolare le dimensioni, quindi perché ho suggerito le velocità di Mach 30 sopra per l'esplorazione del Mansion. Nota "quelle sono esplosivi speciali che possono essere gonfiati da un corpo di demoni ed esplosivi dal minimo attrito", con il segno di 35 secondi più la luce che illumina Daki e Gyutaro, tuttavia questo non appare nel manga come è la scena capitolo 86 pagina 17, 18, 19

Non li vediamo tutti gli esplosivi nel manga, il significato che la scena non è costruita, vieni gli effetti per il pio Zenitsu, ma aggiunto in ergo non canonico.

In sintesi: ho l'obietto di sottolineare che i caratteri più forti menzioni in questo thread non sono altro che velocità transoniche, la maggior parte di ess è più veloce del suono, tuttavia nessuno di essi dovrebbe essere MHS o MHS +.

1. Ti sei sfatato nella prima scansione, rinforzando i dadi letterali il suo corpo prima dell'attacco ha avuto luogo, quindi questo tuo punto è incoerente

2 . Dici che i demoni non si restringono alla velocità del fucile? Amico, Kyogai un demone medio è stat a la velocità del suono, nel gaiden vediamo che Rengoku riesce sempre a eludere i proiettili senza alcun problema e abbiamo anche calcoli per il normale poveri demoni, ad esempio questo, e in generale abbiamo calcoli che già all'inizio dell'anime li portano ben al di sopra del velocità di un fucile d'assalto. Abbiamo anche altri calcoli come Questo, Questo ecc., il verso è costantemente sopra la velocità di un fucile d'assalto e suono.


3. Non credo, attraverso Running Speed puoi trovare Combat Speed, ma attirare Combat Speed non trova Combat Speed, i semplici Slayer ridimensionano in Combat Speed a quelle velocità. Inoltre, espellere a una certa velocità in Running Speed non significa nulla, potresti essere molto più veloce Velocità di combattimento rispetto a quando sei in corsa, poiché funziona anche nella realtà e attira la logica, quindi per me questo punto è incoerente, anche perché mostrano risultati in Combat Speed, rimuovere quelle imprese secondo questa logica non ha senso, perché c'è una differenza tra RS e CS.

4. I demoni bruciano con i raggi del sole e in realtà vanno al velocità della luce, e inoltre, tornando alla discussione precedente, RS non ha fatto CS in alcun modo, oltre ad Akaza era indebolito dopo una battaglia contro Rengoku, una testa tagliata a metà, e sappiamo che i corpi dei demoni perdere energia senza testa e anche con buone ferite, quindi non sarebbe possibile usarlo comunque.

5. Non capisco perché non dovrebbe essere MSH +? con quale contesto non dovrebbe essere?

6. Non ho nemmeno capito l'ultimo punto su Gyutaro.

Since I don't know why the text apparently doesn't translate for me, I'll send the translation below, sorry.

1. You debunked yourself in the first scan by reinforcing the literal dice on her body before the attack took place, so this point of yours is inconsistent



2 . You say demons don't shrink at rifle speed? Man, Kyogai an average demon was at the speed of sound, in the gaiden we see that Rengoku always manages to evade bullets without any problem and we also have calculations for normal poor demons, for example this one, and in general we have calculations that already all The beginning of the anime takes them well above the speed of an assault rifle. We also have other calculations like This, This etc., the verse is consistently above the velocity of an assault rifle and sound.





3. I don't think so, through Running Speed you can find Combat Speed, but drawing Combat Speed doesn't find Combat Speed, simple Slayers scale in Combat Speed at those speeds. Also, ejecting at a certain speed in Running Speed means nothing, you could be much faster in Combat Speed than when running, since it also works in reality and attracts logic, so for me this point is inconsistent, also because they show achievements in Combat Speed, removing those feats according to this logic makes no sense, because there is a difference between RS and CS.



4. Demons burn with the sun's rays and actually go near to the speed of light, and also, going back to the previous discussion, RS didn't do CS in any way, plus Akaza was weakened after a battle against Rengoku, a severed head halfway, and we know that demon bodies lose energy without heads and even with good wounds, so it wouldn't be possible to use it anyway.



5. I don't understand why it shouldn't be MSH+? with what context should it not be?



6. I didn't even understand the last point about Gyutaro.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Speak mortal language

 

[KnyRaizn]

Speak mortal language

I forgot to translate sorry, now I fixed it

 

[FelpeXDopZ]

Cool that's one of the things I'm fine with as the speeds accepted off that calc are under mach 10 iirc I just don't agree with their current speed scaling in the MHS nor the premise of the proposal being MHS+

Well, there are various interactions with lightning bolts, while several low-tiers and even some fodders, have explicit feats and some calculations that show them being as fast or faster than sound. So, I don't see why high-tiers wouldn't scale to MHS speeds.

again see above scan about it being her constitution.

Exactly, Zohakuten is literally saying she tense up her muscles, you can also see Mitsuri is maintaining a rigid posture even though she’s unconscious, and the anime even shows her arms and face twitching, which again shows she did tense up muscles. There is plenty evidence, so I don’t really see any point on keep arguing about this.
Of course, Mitsuri’s abnormal constitution is also playing a role here, Zohakuten highlights this because, despite the fact Mitsuri did tense up her muscles, Zohakuten knows that’s still not enough for a normal human being to withstand his attack (as he said), but Mitsuri did it anyways (because of her abnormal constitution).
And even if she didn’t had tense up her muscles, it doesn’t implies she got blitzed by Zohakuten’s attack, since there is literally nothing Mitsuri could have done in that situation, as I explained earlier. Let's also remember she was moving towards Zohakuten, so from her reference frame, the sound waves were moving faster than sound (as I also said earlier).

You say that and I will offer you these panels from the before mentioned fight chapter 65 page 10 and page 13

I guess I made a bad choice of words. When I said that “he didn't knew if he'd manage to run away in time”, I was talking about the fact that Akaza didn’t knew if he’d be able to free himself from Rengoku before the sunrise could catch him. Although I think I clarified this point on my previous response.

both of those imply he is either not inherently capable of outpacing the sunrise

Um, no, it just shows he’s afraid of the Sun (like every other demon in the series) because if sunlight hits him, he’d get vaporized.
Like, if I knew there’s a snail that could kill me just by touching me, I’d also like to get away from it as much as I can. Even though I’m like a 200x faster than a snail, I wouldn’t really like to risk my life, and I’d be even less likely to risk it if I happened to be immortal.

We don't see them react to the explosion in the manga meaning the scene isn't built upon, like the effects for the Zenitsu piece, but added in ergo not canon.

Daki did react to the explosion as there is simply no way she could have seen the explosives since they always remained on the first floor of the brothel, while Daki was on the second floor, nor was she near the hole Tengen had made. There is also the fact that Tengen noted his explosives didn’t work, meaning they must have get covered before the shock-wave could reach them, and the anime further reinforces this point by showing how the bombs exploded before Daki started to move, and the anime is canon unless it contradicts the manga (and it doesn’t).

 

[Tengouk]

flowery language.

Why is is flowery language? That's a positive claim so prove it.

Secondly, the breathing styles don't directly emit nor force elements into existence... they are illusory as shown by WoG here

That was never my argument stop bringing it up. My argument was the statements not them being illusions, which just don't produce actual bolts but can still shock everyone around him.

If they are MHS+

How did Mitsuri get hit with sound?

How did Rengoku struggle with bullets in his spin off?

Who said anything about PRE-HASHIRA Rengoku? And when does he have trouble with the speed of the bullets? He has trouble with constant bombardment of all kinds of weapons.

Mitsuri didn't once get tagged by a sound wave except when she was surprised by Zohakuten being unkillable, which she still reacts to, while holding back. Also go ahead and prove rq as to why his compressed sound wave, which Mitsuri gets hit with, is limited to the speed of sound. BDA's can be insanely amped by just changing it's properties or using more blood into their attack, which Zohakuten literally does in the manga. Your argument is a non-defeater to MHS+ rating.

Why is the time until sunrise an issue? At Mach 1 ish you could outrun the sunrise or at least run so it doesn't keep coming up, rather than need time to escape as shown by even upper moons that they have to start leaving before the sunrise (Akaza vs Rengoku)

They literally do outrun the sun tf you mean? When do they ever struggle with the speed of the sun? Akaza was also heavily damaged from the fight to the point Tanjiro can keep up with his speed and throw it at a pace to catch Akaza with. "Oh but he's a demon!!" Demons can still get fatigued. You could never once list a demon at FP struggling to be slower than the speed of the sun.

What in the world does this even mean??? The wind can vary greatly if it were something more evident like "Wind that could sunder a building apart" we could gauge that.

I literally said it's vague and then added on that it must be a fast wind speed as he's blitzing a skilled above average fighter. No, there's no need to a statement like that since we can just use basic reasoning to find that the speed must be high and then use a valid wind speed for a calc.

Novelization doesn't prove it is actually 'the speed of lightning' which can also vary btw of where it would fall in the low end to high end.. but even the average doesn't make sense.


There is also Muzan getting tagged by the explosion which runs into some issues too. Check chapters 137 - 139 nothing mentions the explosion being special in terms of it's speed that would imply it to be faster than lightning

Why doesn't it prove he's lightning speed, he's verbatim stated to be so? You're just applying baseless skepticism at this point.

Muzan outright says that he was caught off guard and was agitated by Ubayashiki which in canon makes your reaction and speed worse, unless it's when an anger amp happens which is rare in of itself. Doesn't defeat anything.

If a God tier can't react to an explosion like that and it is not mentioned as special regarding the speed or force of the detonation wave or the explosion in general, I don't think we should be considering higher speeds.

Why would Muzan be slower than someone like Tengen who can outpace his own explosives? He does multiple swings before the explosion can even catch up to his strikes. My interpretation is simply more consistent than yours as I take everything into consideration for my MHS+ rating while you grasp at straws such as Muzan being slower than an explosion's speed or demons not being able to outrun the sun, which could never be proven.

 

[Tengouk]

I mean with the whole "at Mach 1 ish you could outrun the sunrise or at least run so it doesn't keep coming up" thing, probably even lower - a sentiment I can't stand with given the actual feats

Still, "lightning fast" is a frequent statement used to indicate fast movement rather than actually moving at the speed of lightning, so I'd disagree with the MHS+ upgrade

Nowhere do they struggle with the speed of the sun, at all. That's a rumor that can't be proven.

Lightning-fast isn't the only statement, why are you dismissing it based off that? Like what? Lightning-fast is more-so referring to actual lightning speed due to the consistency of feats and the other multiple statements which do not say lightning-fast. Lightning-fast in fiction can be LITERAL.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I agree solidly with @Robespierre_Isidore
Also novel still secondary canon.

 

[Machmatej]

I went away to have a meal and am here to clear some things up


No she doesn't even react to the the attack the demon says 'because of her special constitution' chapter 123 page 11(bottom left panel)

Cool that's one of the things I'm fine with as the speeds accepted off that calc are under mach 10 iirc I just don't agree with their current speed scaling in the MHS nor the premise of the proposal being MHS+
posterity.

As KnyRaizn pointed out, the reason she didn't dodge is because she was in the air. If you're using this to prove Mitsuri isn't faster than the speed of sound and to disregard the lightning feat is an outlier, then it's worth pointing out that Tanjiro (who is far below Hashira level at this point) reacted to the same sound waves, and even Inosuke dodged Mach attacks as early as the first few chapters/episodes.

I do agree Upper moon 1 was able to block and seemlessly deflect this is note my point they just should not be MHS (Mach 100+) speeds

If you're trying to say that most demons can't react to shotgun blasts because the Hantengu clones failed to do so, I just want to point out that they were caught of-guard by Genya. In fact, Genya couldn't even keep up with them without turning into a demon himself. And Kokushibo didn't even acknowledge Genya as a threat, and outpaced both him and his shells with his travel speed, even when he was distracted with the others, he could still cut Genya's enhanced shells (which are probably far faster considering they were enhanced by a demon art.

You say that and I will offer you these panels from the before mentioned fight chapter 65 page 10 and page 13

"I need to get far away from the sun" and "I am not running from the Demon Slayer corps- I'm runing from the SUN!" both of those imply he is either not inherently capable of outpacing the sunrise or he can move at least Mach 1.3 because he needs to run for as he stops he will die to it. As you go north or south of the equator the sunrise is slower, so he could be faster than the local sunrise's speed, I do think he is faster than the sunrise just not astronomically so, nor do I think he fights at those speeds. If he is indeed a martial artsist trained all of himself his combat speed shouldn't be too outstripped from his travel speed.

fun piece for posterity.

No, Akaza didn't imply he was slower than the sunrise or slightly quicker, he was simply afraid of it. After all, it's the only thing that could kill him, and it's not like he can last long under it. Even a ray of sunlight can prove lethal.

no issues with breaking the sound barrier, we don't see the sonic boom however nor do we the motion superscede the sound the sound very well in the manga (also kid next to him should have gone deaf from that but still)

youtube link for the scene, you can argue he's roughly above the speed of sound but not MHS nor greater than 10, around the 48 second mark to the 53 second mark, if we take this as charitable as possible he leaps at the end of the 48th second and arrives before the sound at 52nd second.
Again fine with that. Just shouldn't be MHS and should be brought lower like Supersonic-Hypersonic ranges for most of these characters

The little "boom" shown is supposed to be a sonic boom. The sonic boom is what makes Zenitsu dashing sound like a clap of thunder. Many other characters have the same effect. And in anime adaptation, the little white explosion is replaced with a Mach ring. And all of this happens early in the series, Zenitsu's base thunderclap and flash become obsolete against demons like Kaigaku, but his 7th form is shown to be leagues above it. Supersonic-Hypersonic KNY is such a low ball it's insane.

 

[Tengouk]

I think no one here is arguing these characters are MHS+ because of their breathings techniques, but because the novels and databook state they move at "lightning speeds".



Because she was in the middle of the air and therefore unable to dodge, she was also unable to block as she got hit by an AOE attack, plus she was moving towards Zohakuten, thus from her perspective sound waves were moving faster than sound by an unknown magnitude (relative speed). She was still able to react though, as Zohakuten explicitly stated she "tensed up all her muscles" so she could resist the attack.
Curiously enough, every time someone got hit by these sound-waves, they were either in midair, or restrained by Hantengu.


He didn't, he literally blocked several dozen bullets after being shot by surprise, then he sliced a few of these bullets at the same time he was dodging and running through them, then he either dodged or blocked (the manga isn't clear enough to tell which one was it) more of them at point-blank. The only moment he kind of struggled with bullets was when he was charging towards Hairo and he pulled a gatling-gun out of nowhere, it should be noted that by that time Rengoku had taken some important damage from the explosion he tanked at point-blank, plus the fact he was running towards Hairo implies again the bullets were moving faster from Rengoku’s perspective, but even so he blocked a few of these and then we see him advancing towards Hairo while cutting the bullets in the process. I’d say the gaiden actually shows Rengoku had little to no problem when it comes to blocking or dodging bullets.


I think this is a hasty generalization. Considering Akaza was impressed by the fact that Rengoku could restrain him, I’d say he was frightened because he didn't knew if he'd manage to run away in time. So, he was most likely not worried about the speed of the sunrise, but if he’d manage to free himself before the sunlight could reach him.


There is little to no information on what happened there, we first see Muzan talking with Ubuyashiki, then the mansion is exploding, nothing else. We don't know whether the mansion was filled with explosives, which would mean Muzan was surrounded and therefore escaping was impossible; nor how far away was Muzan from the epicenter of the explosion, which is a vital point as the speed of the shockwave is highly dependent on the value of this parameter. There is also the fact that special gunpowder does exists on the verse, so there would be no reason to believe they didn’t used that against Muzan.
The same way you need solid evidence and information to upgrade a character or verse, you need solid evidence and information to do the contrary (downgrade them), and there is simply not enough evidence nor information about what happened when Muzan got caught into the explosion of Ubuyashiki’s mansion.

Exactly, thanks. Suggesting the literal god tier in the verse to be slower than the speed of the sun, which is baseless, or can't react to explosion speed when Tengen literally outpaces such by a insane amount.

 

[Tengouk]

I agree solidly with @Robespierre_Isidore
Also novel still secondary canon.

That doesn't defeat anything. The gaiden is literally used as a stepstone for the verse.

 

[Tengouk]

With how one of the strongest in the verse is not be able deal with detonations and everyone doesn't scale to a healthy him from what we see

Why is he not able to deal with explosions? He literally states he was caught off guard and he literally blocks it. He's also filled sith rage which nerfs you if you aren't filled with anger so strong that it physically amps you.

How the rise of the sun is a notable concern for demons throughout the whole series...
The fact a large portion of demons can't handle shotgun blasts speed (modern shotguns shoot between mach 0.9 and 1.4)

You keep making the baseless assertions that the sun is a notable concern for demons, yet you're ignoring the fact that the concern in question is that they can be killed through that. It's not the speed that's the problem. Why can't large portions of demons not handle shotgun speed? When did Genya ever fight a demon that didn't want to get shot? The Hantengu clones, which are literally LM lvl react to it point blank. Why is it even the speed of a regular shotgun? It literally states that nichirin weapons depend on the strength of the opponent, hence if Genya grows stronger that factually leads to an increase in speed and power of the material.

Upper Moon 1 can deflect bullets however Akaza needs to take time to run out of the sunlight

Nowhere does it imply he needed time to run away. He just did to be sure. Hantengu at death door can walk under the sun for a extended period of time. Being careful about a thing that could kill you doesn't make you slower.

meaning he's likely unsure if he can outrun it

That's literally such a jump in logic? Nowhere is that implied whatsoever.

"I need to get far away from the sun" and "I am not running from the Demon Slayer corps- I'm runing from the SUN!" both of those imply he is either not inherently capable of outpacing the sunrise or he can move at least Mach 1.3 because he needs to run for as he stops he will die to it. As you go north or south of the equator the sunrise is slower, so he could be faster than the local sunrise's speed, I do think he is faster than the sunrise just not astronomically so, nor do I think he fights at those speeds. If he is indeed a martial artsist trained all of himself his combat speed shouldn't be too outstripped from his travel speed.

Cmon, nothing here suggests remotely that Akaza is slower than the sun or has trouble doing so. He's in fact running away from the sun, why does this conclude he's having trouble? Might I add that he literally did outrun the sun to the point where when he arrives at Muzan's place the sun still didn't catch up, hence he's faster than it's speed by a huge amount. This is also a nerfed Akaza so downplaying the verse based off this isn't valid.

youtube link for the scene, you can argue he's roughly above the speed of sound but not MHS nor greater than 10, around the 48 second mark to the 53 second mark, if we take this as charitable as possible he leaps at the end of the 48th second and arrives before the sound at 52nd second.
Again fine with that. Just shouldn't be MHS and should be brought lower like Supersonic-Hypersonic ranges for most of these characters

Why shouldn't it be MHS when Tengen outpaces an explosion which I personally calced at MHS+? It's not accepted here yet but the support that they're in that range and vastly higher is consistent with all the other statements. Felpe calced a feat for Daki at Hypersonic+ ranges, Daki isn't even remotely comparable to Tengen. Supersonic - Hypersonic for DS based off the arguments you presented is horrible, these contentions are baseless and are grasping at straws.

Note not all explosions move the same speed. Tiny balls like that while definitely solid based explosives the detonation wave is carried in the air that sort of detonation wave gets. Muzan notably points out the size hence why I suggested the Mach 30 speeds above for the Mansion explosion. Note "those are special explosions they can inflict damage to a demons body and explode from the slightest friction", next the 35 second mark shows the light illiuminating Daki and Gyutaro however this does not appear in the manga as here is the scene chapter 86 pages 17, 18, 19

Sure, not all of them move at the same speed yet the speed of Tengen's explosion were found in ranges of 2500 m/s by Felpe. Now imagine Tengen and Daki outpacing that to such ridiculous degrees and come back to claim the verse is supersonic-hypersonic. When Tengen senses the buildings she's still in the corner and outpaced said explosions to wrap Gyutaro in obi.

We don't see them react to the explosion in the manga meaning the scene isn't built upon, like the effects for the Zenitsu piece, but added in ergo not canon.

We don't need to see them react to the explosion we can infer they did react to the explosion based off Daki standing in the corner when Tengen throws his balls.

In summary: I aim to point out the stronger characters as mentioned throughout this thread are no less than transonic speeds, most of them are faster than sound however none of them should be MHS or MHS+.

In summary: None of the counterpoints brought up debunk the notion of MHS+ DS.

 

[Tengouk]

Saying Mitsuri didn't react to is... weird? She tenses up her body, hence it's not a speed feat for Zohakuten's sonic waves but for Mitsuri

 

[Digital_Franz]

This calculation was accepted using the old snail speed, currently the snail speed is given as 0.00275m/s, with small recalculations, we have:

Snail speed: 0.00275

Timeframe: 0.00275 / 31.2928(basketball speed) = 0.00008787964 Segs

Tanjiro's speed: 33.74111616/0.00008787964= 383946,909204452m/s or Mach 1119,37874403630.

Mhs+

Would this serve as consistency?

As a priority, it would be necessary to check whether with the new data the calculation is accepted, which would provide a second option in the event of refusal of the argument presented by the OP.

 

[Passersby]

With how one of the strongest in the verse is not be able deal with detonations and everyone doesn't scale to a healthy him from what we see

i am fairly certain this has been dealt with

There is little to no information on what happened there, we first see Muzan talking with Ubuyashiki, then the mansion is exploding, nothing else. We don't know whether the mansion was filled with explosives, which would mean Muzan was surrounded and therefore escaping was impossible; nor how far away was Muzan from the epicenter of the explosion, which is a vital point as the speed of the shockwave is highly dependent on the value of this parameter. There is also the fact that special gunpowder does exists on the verse, so there would be no reason to believe they didn’t used that against Muzan.
The same way you need solid evidence and information to upgrade a character or verse, you need solid evidence and information to do the contrary (downgrade them), and there is simply not enough evidence nor information about what happened when Muzan got caught into the explosion of Ubuyashiki’s mansion.

How the rise of the sun is a notable concern for demons throughout the whole series...

....because the sun can kill them, would you actually please start providing evidence-quite honestly a single shred of evidence, that they're slower than the sunrise?

"they're afraid of it" isn't evidence

The fact a large portion of demons can't handle shotgun blasts speed (modern shotguns shoot between mach 0.9 and 1.4)

characters far slower than the one showed can block those shot gun bullets from close range

this is from a past thread(note that these characters are all peers to the one who blocked the bullets above)

tanjiro is struck by karaku's wind attack, which blows him a significant distance away from Sekido, we can see that in this page, tanjiro isn't even in sight, then in the next page, he blitzes sekido so quickly that Sekido can't even look down before his arm is severed. Then immediately on the next page, he blitzes urogi so quickly that he doesn't even feel he's been cut before he realizes that tanjiro is behind him

and later when genya's about to be impaled by sekido's staff which inches away from him and tanjiro is nowhere in sight,tanjiro then appears out of nowhere and sekido's hand is severed at the wrist so quickly we don't see the blade or even a swing

i bleive given the information we have on the series (like kyogai's explicit transonic attacks in season 1)that it's safe to say that gun being supernatural and thus the bullet's veolcity being unkown is a given, but honestly i don't really feel like arguing for it rn so

well, hope you've been doing well anyways lol

edit: links stopped working, hold on

should be good now

and this already makes any "they're afraid of sunrize and therefore slower" a silly joke, not like it hadn't been from the very beginning


and how does this absolutely supersonic at least tanjiro compare to the pillars?

when he fought zohakkuten, his strikes were so fast that he didn't even have time to use any breathing styles. So surely by your interpretarions, that means that Pillars are also helpless right?

nope mtsuri just cuts right through it and carries Tanjiro away, before turning around and not only facing down an attack from all of the emotion powers, but actually simply leaping forward and cutting through all of them. Zohakuten explicitly points out that she's keeping up with the speed. She only gets hit after that because Tanjiro distracts her by calling out while she's mid-jump, and then Zohakuten takes advantage of that to nail her with a sonic attack while she can't change trajectory from being in the air, and relative speed and what not, this has already been dealt with 2, i'm just proving a point here, they're afraid of sunrize because they're slower is an objectively wrong conclusion, periode

most of it should be in the supersonic ranges tbh for the higher end characters, Upper Moon 1 can deflect bullets however Akaza needs to take time to run out of the sunlight meaning he's likely unsure if he can outrun it

....no, it shouldn't?

supersonic ranges were acheived by lowermoon level opponents at minimum and inosuke got blitzed by someone who isn't even a lower moon despite his only reaction to a unexpected transonic attack aimed towards the location as he was already running towards is halting his tracks and and leaping backwards before it reaches him then laugh at it and say not bad

stating the pillars are subsonic or that everyone caps at supersonin is honesty not only absurd, but a silly joke, the latter part of your argument is an objectively incorrect and a demonstrably false statement unless you can prove the reason he is afraid of sunrize is because he is slower than it, and unless you want to cherry pick your feats, like you've been doing

No she doesn't even react to the the attack the demon says 'because of her special constitution' chapter 123 page 11(bottom left panel)

the special constitution being the abnormally high muscle density, there was nothing in that panel that implied she only reacted because of it (and even if there was, i have no idea ho this helps you?) he said she tensed her whole body before she got hot by the attack, and even then despite that fact she still survived it at point blank, something he contributed to her her spcial physique

again see above scan about it being her constitution.

it's her reaction speed, her consistution only made her durable enough to withstand the attack and not die, you should probably read the panel again

and all the talks about relative speed,

"I need to get far away from the sun" and "I am not running from the Demon Slayer corps- I'm runing from the SUN!" both of those imply he is either not inherently capable of outpacing the sunrise or he can move at least Mach 1.3 because he needs to run for as he stops he will die to it. As you go north or south of the equator the sunrise is slower, so he could be faster than the local sunrise's speed, I do think he is faster than the sunrise just not astronomically so, nor do I think he fights at those speeds. If he is indeed a martial artsist trained all of himself his combat speed shouldn't be too outstripped from his travel speed.

bolded part make this entire argument pointless, because then you already established that he isn't slower than the sunrize, and thus actually is only scare of dying

and if anything, prove that they actuall imply....any of what you said?

"I need to get far away from the sun" and "I am not running from the Demon Slayer corps- I'm runing from the SUN!"

this, quite literally, implies he is scared of dying to the sun, unless you can prove with actual showings instead of random unsubstantiated assumptions that he is scared because he is slower than the sunrize this point is entirely meaningless, if you think otherwise prove it, actually give any sort of credible evidence for that to the case , you just stated that he was and got done with it
akaza, of all people, being mach 1.4 is honestly stupid on so many levels

above the speed of sound but not MHS nor greater than 10, around the 48 second mark to the 53 second mark, if we take this as charitable as possible he leaps at the end of the 48th second and arrives before the sound at 52nd second.
Again fine with that. Just shouldn't be MHS and should be brought lower like Supersonic-Hypersonic ranges for most of these characters

..that's not the scene i was talking about when i said he broke the sound barrier, i was talking about his fight with the spider brother when tanjiro actually heard the sound of thunder, aka a sonic boom

this in season 1

transonic attacks were also easilt dealt with and dodged by a tanjiro who feels pain just by walking and has a broken leg and crakced ribs


said tanjiro is so far slower than any relevant character it's honestly funny

Note not all explosions move the same speed. Tiny balls like that while definitely solid based explosives the detonation wave is carried in the air that sort of detonation wave gets. Muzan notably points out the size hence why I suggested the Mach 30 speeds above for the Mansion explosion. Note "those are special explosions they can inflict damage to a demons body and explode from the slightest friction", next the 35 second mark shows the light illiuminating Daki and Gyutaro however this does not appear in the manga as here is the scene chapter 86 pages 17, 18, 19

it was animated that way because it's the only way it could have been animated and the only way this sequence of events could have played out
,tengen, the individual throwing the bombs, is significantly faster than daki is(he can easily blitz her as explicitly shown) and since the bombs detonate with the slightest friction it's dubious to say she reacted to the bombs being thrown instead of the explosion itself when she was nowhere near the bombs, had no idea they even exist as they were out of her line of sight and thrown by a faster chracater who can blitz her with trivial ease

this pretty much is 100% confirmation that she reacted after the bombs detonated, not before, i really don't see any flaw for that to not be the case, if you find a single other way the events could have taken place that acutally makes sens given the context of the scene feel free to say it

this already in the double digits of mach at minimum, and this is daki, not even a pillar opponent

 

[Xaropadob3ta]

definitely agree they are above the speed of sound at least at that level. However note that modern shotguns shoot pellets at these speeds (Mach .98 and Mach 1.42)

I do agree Upper moon 1 was able to block and seemlessly deflect this is note my point they just should not be MHS (Mach 100+) speeds

I managed to do a calculation on this.
Now just wait to be evaluated.

I need to add that Kokushibo was consistently increasing his speed little by little, not only that, he suffered a small reaction downgrade, declared to be drunk, which consequently should have reduced his speed, despite not being seriously fighting.

 

[Tengouk]

Bump..

 

[KnyRaizn]

Bump.

 

[Tengouk]

Bump

 

[Tengouk]

Bump.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Bump.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Bump.

Only one person needs to bump the thread and it isn't exactly something you should do when only minutes have passed since the last one.

 

[KnyRaizn]

Only one person needs to bump the thread and it isn't exactly something you should do when only minutes have passed since the last one.

Okay sorry, I was only saying this because we don't know what happened to the Thread, it's not closed but we haven't heard anything further

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay sorry, I was only saying this because we don't know what happened to the Thread, it's not closed but we haven't heard anything further

What is happening right now is a lack of activity which does happen from time to time.

 

[Tengouk]

Bump