Definite Proof (as using actual in text statements and feats) Darth Plagueis is NOT tier 5B (likely much higher)

[Qawsedf234]

1. IIRC, it's stated that Palpatine has learned almost every single Force power and created new ones.

That was Dark Empire Sidious after he did a college binge study on Byss

 

[ByAsura]

Ok.

 

[Mkpoke167]

Damn, Asura completely destroyed you.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Some other notes

2. As I explained, Palpatine did cloud the Jedi's abilities to see the future. Also, Terberous himself made Plagueis unable to see the future for a day and was implied to be the reason why he couldn't see his death.

He made Plagueis permanently unable to see the future when he inserted his Maxi-chlorians into Plagueis' body to my memory. Its also why Tenebrous was unable to see the future until he body jacked Plagueis, since the Maxi-chlorians took away his future sight.

Also, I doubt Plagueis' statements refer to Palpatine after became a Sith Master, as it took every Jedi in 25,000 years to defeat him permanently in Dark Empire: Empire's End.

As a minor note, the Jedi Spirits did not defeat or kill Sidious. They just prevent him from escaping whatever the Star Wars version of hell is. Which is notable since they've never had to do that for any other Sith other than Sidious.

Legends implies that the balance of power in the dark side changed after Sidious became it's head (Plagueis had died shortly before the Phantom Menace).

It was more than implied in Legends. We see the ritual that he did

 

[ByAsura]

Ok. It still shows that preventing people from seeing the future isn't so massive.

Understandable.

I actually thought that was non-canon (as in to Legends). I've looked and I was, indeed, wrong.

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

LMAO I Take a break and walk back to this XD.... No biggy.... I do the same with message spam unintentional to others . @ByAsura

First off dark empire series isn't cannon anymore ever since disney bought out star wars...

2nd off good job on reasoning on how a force nexus might not give that much power, but there still is 2 massive problems you have here.... Remember the power behind a user comes from knowlegde and physical midichlorian count (which is a physical medium that wouldn't be around after death), implying it comes mainly down to knowledge on how powerful a jedi or sith is after death...

Tell me was every single one of those jedi masters??? Can you prove each of these jedi were highly knowledgable in the force???

If the only variable that takes play after death is knowledge then, even the minor difference between a jedi knight and jedi master will DRASTICALLY effect the resultant power output, as shown by marka ragnos effecting the afterlife drastically while other normal sith can't effect anything....

Soooo, Tell me do we have the info required to really rule out that it is more powerful then korriban.... LOLOLOL I don't think soo buddy.... Transending after death isn't a easy constant to determine do to this knowledge situation, that's legit the only reason i used the 50% of said power to determine feat level.

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@Mkpoke167

Calm your ******* i was just taking a break LMFAO

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@Matthew Schroeder

Here is the thing i keep on tryna get at you, indirect implications isn't the best way of approaching things... Only direct implications is, which means comparing feats is the best way to do it, or looking at the justifiability of the users and sources talk for use....

Just because he became a dark vortex, it never says clearly "Palpatine is more powerful then his master now"

For example let's be honest plagueis WILL think he is more powerful then his master once he killed his master by feeling the surge of power, but does he really know that his master shot out his body, implying no direct power gain other then knowledge??? The answer is likely NO.

It's like a force nexus, sometimes it can come, but when the user leaves, master leaves, or some indirect variable comes into play it can easily be lost...

This is why i want y'all to show direct feats, or make sure you have valid sources when it comes to the talk (like wether we can trust if palpatines talk about being more powerful is just ego or sheer knowledge as i already covered)

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@Qawsedf234 Good observations sir... The downside though is dark empire isn't canon anymore (unless comfirmed directly), and when it comes to maxi chlorians YES that is a perfectly good observation.... But, The thing is maxi chlorians stay permanant, which is not what we saw happened to jedi's future foresight (them getting permamentally tooken away), sooo even though YES that is a perfect observation... It really doesn't have much use for this debate...

 

[Qawsedf234]

My guy, Darth Plagueis is only 5-B in Legends and all the other feats you brought up are from Legends as well. You can't dismiss DE as non-cano when its in the same canon as the character you're trying to upgrade.

and when it comes to maxi chlorians YES that is a perfectly good observation.... But, The thing is maxi chlorians stay permanant, which is not what we saw happened to jedi's future foresight

I wasn't addressing that Jedi were blocked from seeing the future by the two, I brought it up since I had issues with the comparison ByAsura made between the two.

 

[ByAsura]

@Deepincreep Neither is the Plagueis novel. Literally everything you've mentioned in the OP is from Legends.

They're Jedi Knights who directly opposed the Sith Brotherhood, all of whom were powerful Sith, but generally less powerful than the Rule of Two Sith. They're probably comparable to weaker members of the high council, and they say the Jedi haven't grown since their war in the Revenge of the Sith novel.

But this is irelevant, because the Valley of the Dark Lords probably only has a few people who are far more powerful (at the time Plagueis was there) and less numbers. Also, the Valley of the Jedi is still called the most powerful force nexus.

I don't even understand what you're saying, sorry.

Jedi Knights are Jedi who've completed their training, some can be on the level of Masters and may I remind you that Qui-Gon Jinn was a master. Also, both Obi-Wan and Anakin, despite their raw power, weren't Masters.

I did give feats and valid sources.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Jedi Knights are Jedi who've completed their training. Also, both Obi-Wan and Anakin, despite their raw power, weren't Masters.

Obi-Wan was a Jedi Master by Episode II at least. Anakin had the power to be a master, just not the emotional maturity.

They're Jedi Knights who directly opposed the Sith Brotherhood, all of whom were powerful Sith, but generally less powerful than the Rule of Two Sith.

Most of the Brotherhood of Darkness was weaker than older Sith since they abandoned tradition and allowed weaker and weaker Sith to take power. I don't think they're 1:1 with older Sith, certainly not the random fodder people.

 

[ByAsura]

I didn't actually know he was a master. I thought he was a Knight until episode 3. I should've been more specific about Anakin, I meant it's not entirely about power.

These were Kaan's top 100 strongest, they'd certainly be less powerful than Kun, but not leagues below someone like Poof. They're certainly not 1:1 with the Rule of Two Sith. Also, that's kind of the point, the Valley on Korriban isn't particularly strong.

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@ByAsura

Also YES, preventing future isn't sooo massive... But, NOTE.... IT ONLY ISN'T SOO MASSIVE through specific types of midi-chlorians.... YES Midi-Chlorians connect and are in anything do to that... But, When they are in normal objects they are subject to entropy and nuetralization, which is why we aren't seeing all star wars physics go out of wack with cause and effect 24/7.... BUT, When we have living hosts/microscopic creatures holding said force in a boundary condition, aka a living being, this creates higher densities of said types of midi-chlorians, which is why force users are force users, and non force users are non force users... They know how to utilize there boundary condition without nuetralization.... (also i will add brackets for your OCD for my example)

____________________________________________________________________________

This is like me saying quantum field vibrations have INFINITE types of probabilities and therefor INFINITE energy, therefor the quantum vacuum must have infinite energy densities in daily life, essentially downplaying the nature and impressiveness of reality.

While at the same time ignoring said boundary conditions called the planck length, and the side effects that is created by said downplay....

____________________________________________________________________________

This is the line of logic we use when ignoring the nature of things....

The main idea of me saying this feat is soooo impresive on large scales is do to likelyhood of it since there is NO evidence on how plagueis did said feat. Therefor do to there being no said boundary condition, till we get to higher dimensions and realize it isn't till low tier 2c levels of reality till we can 100% comfirm said effect takes place....

NOW Does this mean it is 100% low tier 2c, the answer is NO, this is why i say "possibly" and never 100% comfirmed or denied said situation, cause tbh we can just right it off as a butterfly effect and nuetralization of energies, but then said scenario becomes an even more unlikely scenario requiring unprovable quantum field THOERIES to try and speculate probabilities, since we need then some naturual said boundry condition to be created on small scale to effect large scale, but the problem though is remember on the small scale in order to put in place said theories requires unprovable hypothesis to be used.....

This is like me using a coing flip to say said events happened in the future... Well first off the coing flip itself is about 50% or 1/2 (or close to it if user has lack of knowledge on how to exploit simple mechanics), and then going on to using unprovable theories/hypothesis which gives even more 50% chances for your boundary condition... Well then this means for just 3 seconds of accuaracy, would require 5.565e+43 planck times/50% boundary conditions therefor to ignore the coorelation between force usage and spacetime bending, is like to compare.... A, 50% chance likelyhood i'm proposing, to your alternative 50%^ 5.565e+43 likelyhood...


Know if your like "It's Stupid to see the glass half full when it is also half empty".... Well the thing though, is in this case it really isn't JUST half full for me.... We already have seen the force being capable of bending spacetime, and the fact that midi chlorians CAN effect spacetime through lord momin https://d13ezvd6yrslxm.cloudfront.net/wp/wp-content/images/Momin-comic-3-700x251.jpg...

Now if your like "it is all the machine" since after all he used a machine to refine it, well then.... Tell me, with the people of this time clearly showing to be sooo ignorant at using there hyperdrive technology, that there sooo bad at it, that they fear that constantly hyperdrive jumping, risks malfunctioning and being dumped into an additional dimension... Implies Well...

What makes you think that in this clear arragance of the use of allll there technology... Still can use it FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME... Once again to momentarily bending spacetime is much much easier then holding it off overtime, since this momentarily burst IS the boudry condition in as the unit of time T, using the already existing boundary conditions planck units to do the work for you.....

Soooo, Once again this implies the logic of "the force can't effect spacetime" is relying iffy technology that has a 50% likelyhood of failing with NO boundry condition, as if it were to go through the constant jumps of planck time ONCE AGAIN creates 0% likelyhood... Since then these bursts of planck time boundaries come as a diadvantage once again putting said likelyhood for 3 seconds to 50%^ 5.565e+43... _________________________________________________________________________


Therefor it is 99.99999....% safe to say the force CAN effect spacetime do to these facts.... NOW Little do y'all realize this implies this perfect 50% likelyhood all of a sudden becomes NOT 50%, because now it comes down to boundary condition manipulation capabilities in star wars which is MIDI CHLORIANS the very thing plaeigus is a master at manipulating, implies when this comes to into effect with the devils advocate 50% unlikelyhood since he can't comfirm or deny plagueis has the knowledge to be capable of it.... Implies 50% of 50% = 25%, sooo 50% + 25% = 75% likelyhood of plaguies directly effecting it...

Since we already have 100% of 50% of the question (aka: the question of "is it possible") comfirmed true which makes the

50%

and then we just have the half glass full half glass empty of if he had knowledge of it which creates the

50%/2=25% sooo

50% + 25% = 75%

CONCLUSION: I posted the feat since we already know the direct connection is possible.... Soooo, Knowing it is possible just brings it down to probability, and this said probability is in favor 75% or 25% more, for plagueis directly effecting these larger scales rather then not...

It's simple algebra and maths, which i know for sure y'all know how to use.


Soooo, Considering this... There is no reason why you shouldn't understand my implications of it being a potential... AND a more likely feat of power.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, fine, the Tenebrous point was a false equivalency, but you're also forgetting that Palpatine did the same.

No, that wouldn't be Low 2-C or higher dimensional.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I'm with @ByAsura here. I'm not seeing Low 2-C

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

Ahem Ahem Spacetime is all relative, which means technically you can view 4th and 5th dimensional constructs over multiple points in space as the same....

This is called the AdS/CFT correspondence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AdS/CFT_correspondence

It is a correspondence saying essentially, if time = space, as spacetime, then any space possibility created by time (essentially when viewed sideways aka 5th dimensional construct) is also technically space, just in a different lower dimensional perspective

Therefor higher dimensional manipulation over multiple points of space aka 9th dimensional power degree of freedom wise 100% equals higher dimensional manipulation

sooooo imma just bold some clearly missed text here

_______________________________________________________________________________

Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting, creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely sized 3-dimensional expanse. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continua of an universal scale, though it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

A) Provably infinite, one which can be safely assumed to be so, or that is of an otherwise non insignificant size.

B) Portrayed as infinitely larger than lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.

C) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Ahem Ahem

F = MA

or

F = GM

Which means F = GM

Is the square rooted envariant of E = MC^2

since we are dealing with M

Therefor if we set a boundry condition of a imaginary dimension aka what your brain is evolved to see + planck times

=

Required Fourier Transform https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r18Gi8lSkfM <-(visual to understand)

do to well... trigonometry and calculus

Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2y7n6jw5d0&list=PLIQsj-TfQLN3yeMHWnGrVTxM09gM8k1pZ&index=10 It talks about laplace transforms created by a real EXISTING minowalski space aka the universe (watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zScn3tV9YPU to understand the effects creating relativity in nature), and US the imaginary quantity... Creating complex numbers therefor forcing forier transforms, which is a infinite quantity tranform therefor marking

Provably infinite, one which can be safely assumed to be so, or that is of an otherwise non insignificant size.

B) Portrayed as infinitely larger than lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.

as true

and also marking Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space.

True

Because, Of the AdS/CFT correspondence....

LMFAO It's called simple probability maths..

While the advanced stuff just comfirms it's likelyhood....


Like seriously do i need to teach you trigonometry and calculus all over again just to baby sit you into a simple algebraic concept????


CONCULSION: We have comfirmed spacetime manipulation under some aspect of the force... Which, Means do to half of the problem already being answered the other half tips it into a feat of power favor 25%....

While, Spacetime manipulation of said force, i have proven using more complex of maths to be considering higher dimensional manipulation under a infinite large circumstance... AKA Imaginary axis as in possiblity of plaguies doing it as an imaginary plane + the infinitely large force to overcome the speed of light, phi, and planck units as the real plane = Low 2C level under all qualifications

 

[ByAsura]

"An area of space-time larger than a 3-D expanse."

He didn't affect an area equivalent to the entire universe. He manipulated the force around the Jedi. Stop using leaps in logic.

In real life, higher dimensions are thought to be compacted can also be subatomic in size. That's why we look at verse portrayal instead of real physics regarding fiction.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Just straight up, I'm not seeing any universal scale manipulation that would imply a Low 2-C rating from what you gave. You're reaching really hard and really far for something that just has no bearing and massively contradicts everything else.

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

Do i need to keep on speaking on science which i merely unrelated and babysit your simple algebra using more advanced of maths..

OR are you actually gonna try for once to understand, or accept you cannot deny probability (since denying probability is fallacius)....


NOW If there wasn't the reliable base constant of the nature of spacetime, hyperdrives, and the force in star wars you can nail me for probability fallacies....

But, For know considering the probability is undeniable presenting it as a LIKELY (not comfirmable or denyable) feat is still necissary.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Do i need to keep on speaking on science which i merely unrelated and babysit your simple algebra using more advanced of maths..

No, you need to show a feat that actually effects a universe sized area and prove its a consistent showing of power. You've done neither.

 

[ByAsura]

There multiple aspects of the force, so he wouldn't have to affect space-time. And hyperspace is part of universal space-time alongside realspace in Legends.

Also, stop being so condescending. All I'm saying is that he didn't actually have to affect space-time. This has nothing to do with real world physics that likely don't exist in Star Wars to some extent. I mentioned this beforehand, but you ignored it completely like you're saying we did.

In real life, higher dimensions are thought to be compacted can also be subatomic in size. That's why we look at verse portrayal instead of real physics regarding fiction.

 

[ANormalMetalSheevite]

WTH did I just step into? Also, can someone please summarize the points of the two sides of the debate.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I remember when we argued for 3-A / Low 2-C Ones and we got repeated denials. But now Low 2-C Plagueis? Sounds like such a meme.

 

[Iisdude1]

Wasn't Plagueis barely conscious when Palpatine killed him.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Palpatine got him drunk and he was asleep when Palpatine killed him, if I remember correctly.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sidious couldn't risk him fighting back. So he drugged and stabbed him, them stopped his midi-cholrian manipulation while monologue-ing.

 

[ByAsura]

Darth Sidious also, as I and others have mentioned before, grew way more powerful after killing Plagueis.

Here's the full quote on that future thing, because I'm calling b.s on that. Sorry it's so long.

• Plagueis began to pace the cool floor. "No Sith have ever been in the position in which we now find ourselves, Darth Sidious: in step with the reemergence of the dark side, fortified by the signs and omens, certain that revenge and victory are near at hand. If the Jedi would abide by their philosophy of acting in accordance with the Force, of doing what is right, they would roll over for the dark. But they resist. Yoda and the rest of the Council members will double their meditation sessions in an effort to peer into the future, only to discover it clouded and unknowable. Only to discover that complacency has opened the door to catastrophe. "If indeed they have been acting in accordance with the Force, how could we be succeeding in tipping the balance? How could the dark side be gaining ground? In fact, the Jedi have fallen away from their self-assigned duty, their noble path. Could they have prevented it? Perhaps by having remained in control of the Republic, by electing and reelecting Jedi Supreme Chancellors. Or perhaps by absenting themselves completely from the affairs of the Republic, and attending to their arcane rituals in the belief that right thinking by them would keep the Republic strong and on course, the galaxy tipped into the light, instead of having allowed themselves to become marshals and enforcers." He cast a questioning look at Sidious. "Do you see the grand error of their ways? They execute the Republic's business as if it were the business of the Force! But has a political body ever succeeded in being the arbiter of what is right and just? How easy it is for them to bask in self-assurance in their castle on Coruscant. But in so doing, they have rendered themselves ill equipped for the world we have spent a millennium bringing into being." He cleared his throat. "We're going to back them into a contradiction, Darth Sidious. We're going to force them to confront the moral quandary of their position, and reveal their flaws by requiring them to oversee the conflicts that plague their vaunted Republic. "Only Dooku and a handful of others have grasped the truth. All those years ago when I first met him on Serenno, I thought: What a blow it would be to the Order if he could be enticed to leave and embrace the dark side. What a panic it might incite. For if one could leave, then ten or twenty or thirty could follow, and the hollowness at the center of the Order would be plain for all to see." The Muun's eyes narrowed. "One can't be content to abide by the rules of the Jedi Order or the Force. Only by making the Force serve us have we prevailed. Eight years ago we shifted the galaxy, Darth Sidious, and that shift is now irreversible." Approaching, he rested his bony hands on Sidious's shoulders. "On my first visit to your homeworld I recognized it as a nexus in the Force. And I remember thinking how appropriate it was that the dark side should be hiding on such a beautiful planet." He paused, straightened, then asked with sudden gravity, "Is Veruna ready, Sidious? I'm concerned that he might be as uncontrollable as the Yinchorri, and that a more malleable leader would better serve our interests." Sidious considered the question. "It may not be necessary to remove him, Master. Like Gunray, he favors wealth over honor." Plagueis nodded his head slowly. "Then nudge him, Darth Sidious. And let us see which way he leans before we decide his fate."

This implies Plagueis couldn't do it single handedly, nor would it be sheer power.

"On my first visit to your homeworld I recognized it as a nexus in the Force. And I remember thinking how appropriate it was that the dark side should be hiding on such a beautiful planet."

This is the full statement. I don't think it's saying his presence affected it in some way. I don't even know what you mean, honestly.

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

LMFAO @ByAsura

What do you mean "leap logic", you never explained WHAT cause this quote "Yoda and the rest of the Council members will double their meditation sessions in an effort to peer into the future, only to discover it clouded and unknowable. Only to discover that complacency has opened the door to catastrophe."

The only thing we can explain is that it happened after the balance was tipped to the dark side therefor there is a direct coorelation with the force

I said "potential feat"

Do y'all even know what potential means XD

It's called mentioning a "probable feat" not a "True feat"

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@ByAsura Also yes higher dimensions are compactified in small planck length of space created by calabai yau manifold, which LMFAO uh hint hint achieve creation via this exact means https://i.pinimg.com/564x/27/57/7d/27577d73e1df9acc7034cc0e7356d6f2.jpg

This allows calabai yau manifolds to hold geometries infinite spatial dimensions in 6 dimensions of degree of freedom

This means.... Once we talk about multiple point in space in a line it is 6 + 1 = 7 dimensional, if we are saying multiple points in space in a plane it is 6+2, if we say multiple points/calabai manifold in 3d space we get 6+3, when considering both 3d space these calabai yau manifolds over each point in space AND the limiting factor limits turned off (aka equivelant to me in 3d space without planck lengths) then it is 6+4 creating a superstring, while 6+5 is a superstrings temporal time (Note over multiple points in space the 0 dimensional points entangle the calabai yau manifolds)

Sooooo, Impacting SPACETIME, which therefor effects the AdS/CFT correspondence indirectly through butterfly effect = 8 dimensional indirectly... But, Considering the force is part of the AdS/CFT we can only comfirm use of force on his end being intentional most likely.... It's like me moving super fast in a rocket just to slow time, does it make me truly spacetime levels energy wise aka 8 dimensional NO..... But, Did we pull off a feat which is 8 dimensional in the sense you are purposely bending it to slow time and create reality warping effects, well if i moved close to the speed of light YES. Therefor i'm referring to his range in degree of freedom he can manipulate which implies low 2c.....

If he truly pulled off a low 2c energy wise he would surpass the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bekenstein_bound limit and create a black hole....

But, Here is the thing has this limit ever detered you from explaining dimensionality like saying thanos is 4 dimensional quantum mechanically in power (7 dimensional in string theory since translating from incomplete quantum mechanics model) at most, since he can move through time, but still loses power in other universes??? Well NO, because information limits when it comes to higher dimensions is NOT what is needed to create the same effect for thanos having 4 dimensional quantum (aka 7 dimensional string theory) power....


LMFAO Y'alls understanding of dimensions is like me asking a rock to explain algebra smh *facepalm*

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@Qawsedf234

Ahem Ahem the time dimension can't be described in a 3 dimensional being narrative as true space.... Since They are seeing time as temporal axis as a 3d being, but does that mean a 3d being like me or dialogue in star wars is gonna explain an ENTIRE 4 dimensional construct in view from a 4 dimensional being???

The answer is no

Saying this is like me saying.... "Oooh Dang you time perception is 50% slower then mine at 87% the speed of light, therefor we aren't having slower time values we just are becoming replicated clones of some mystical force"

LMFAO If they were 4 dimensional in spatial axis they would see through walls and see everything at once, be able to properly invert spatial objects like mirror, and see every beings timeline as a long snake of different you's of different ages.... BUT, Does this deter you from saying a being like thanos isn't 4d quantum mechanically (7 dimensional string theory), just because we are seeing his a 3d spatial being slice narrative of the 4th dimension, and his 4 dimensional powers NO. See here is the thing, that IS NOT HOW DIMENSIONS ALWAYS WORK, dimensions are relative which means it isn't as 1 dimensional as your tryna describe, which means since spatial dimensions are really just degrees of freedom and not ACTUAL energy increases, this implies we can determine said dimensionality by description of said feat....

Let's say a living being intentially forces you into an ego death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death.... NOW Even though the being was effected with his brain 3 dimensionally, the intended effect do to low levels of energy in defining aspects of the brain to determine you are well... YOU, Start to fail to think properly because in reality your fluid thinking to the absolute max, which is a low energy type of thinking that leads to randomness and said detected higher dimensional properties by this study https://www.sciencealert.com/science-discovers-human-brain-works-up-to-11-dimensions (it explains in https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fncom.2017.00048/full what is going on), sooo a 3d being can have higher dimensional concious thought process merely by deactivating or lowering activity in certain areas if not ALL areas of the brain.... Soooo, Is this just 3 dimensional??? NOOO

For example if i said "Your 100% only a 2 dimensional being, because the surface of my eyes is 2 dimensional and see you as 2 dimensional indicating the 3rd dimension is an illustion only created in the brain", you would probably see me as an idiot if i said that because it fails to consider the fundemental properties of the experience of a 2d being.... Which makes sense

But, Here is the thing your essentially saying something close to the same thing since your implying scaling that requirs exceeding the information limit just to see a minor 3d object.... Which ruins the perception of a 3d being.... When it comes to "Dimensional tiering" it is ONLY a tiering of degree of freedom, NOT energy...

Your depiction seems to require energy, which would imply well a fallacious and non existent concept of higher dimensions, because then your brain should become a black hole by thinking of it, BUT is that happening???

The answer is NO....

Remember everything is relative my friend therefor even such depiction as "Yoda and the rest of the Council members will double their meditation sessions in an effort to peer into the future, only to discover it clouded and unknowable. Only to discover that complacency has opened the door to catastrophe." is viable

Clearly y'all don't understand **** about dimensions even though y'all always talk about it all the time in death battles

 

[Qawsedf234]

The multiple paragraphs you've written still fail to provide evidence that:

• They effected something on a universal scale

• Its consistent

Without proving both anything you're trying to push just holds not water and no amount of Gish gallop will change that.

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@ANormalMetalSheevit

I was explaining normal feats, and decided just to show a "Potential feat" to them not a "comfirmed feat".... And, Now they are denying the concept of dimensional being degree of freedom based, and using a logic which requires dimensions to be purely energy functioning, which clearly isn't how dimensions works until you hit 9 and 10th dimensional to the rest of 3d space, or 6th dimensional to a planck length XD.

Soooo, Know there having a seizure based on lack of dimensional understanding created by denial, even though them and the rest of the community already scales dimensions in a similar manor, making it vastly hypocritical on there part....

That's why i'm whipping out the maths LOL...

If i moved at the speed of light and froze time, it doesn't mean i haven't achieved some limited level of 4 dimensional ability LMFAO (and i'm pretty sure even you know that)... Which is why i'm getting into the maths and crud to explain these concepts to them which they clearly don't understand....

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

FACTS @Ogbunabali

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@Matthew Schroeder

Sooo, Degree of dimensional freedom is a meme now????

When the day comes that we can properly deny moving at 99.9999% the speed of light and stopping time ISN'T a partial 4 dimensional feat in ability... Or that we can deny thanos with the infinity gauntlet DOESN'T have quantum mechanical 4 dimensional power (4 dimensions in quantum mechanics over space is 7 dimensional string theory), just because thanos doesn't directly see a 4 dimensional construct, and intead see's it in his stories narrow 3d frame... Then come talk to me about memes....

For, Now though, of course it seems you wanna partake on a level of scaling which requires the user to be spatially the same dimensionality to have that level of feats, rather then having only abilities like that dimensionality which would in reality surpass the information limit of whatever space your thinking of and create a black hole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bekenstein_bound.... AAAAND, Clearly your brain hasn't turned into a black hole yet thinking about it, and the concept of spacetime being relative is still not requiring us to be a true 4 dimensional spatial being soooooo, it's kinda clear what the obvious actual working line of logic is here (since i actually am seeing dimensions as degree of freedom, not levels of energy)....

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

If someone discovers spacetime is not relative, or discovers we in actuality are physically 4 dimensional and experience daily life as 5th dimensional please contact the https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/....

Unless you have evidence to prove http://www.iop.org/, https://www.nasa.gov/, and https://www.spacex.com/ is all wrong

Sidenote: Yes i am referring to the implications of @ByAsura @Qawsedf234 and @Matthew Schroeder's, understanding of dimensions LMFAO. The implications are kinda concerning, when it comes to death and vs battle users understanding of dimensions.

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

There is a clear difference between your ego that defines you and your delusion of reality, AND actual reality....

This is a clear example of when people commit to this delusion, rather then commit to facts and reality (since side results of your explanation of dimensions and requirement, require impossible and unreal concequences when compared to reality).... Specifically this was achieved succefully by y'all when in a state of denial, congrats you stooped down to a level rarely seen in the face of modern age humanity.

GG

 

[ByAsura]

Just from hearing the shit you spout, you clearly have a far more massive ego than anyone here. Stop acting like everyone who doesn't agree with you is a child.

LMFAO Y'alls understanding of dimensions is like me asking a rock to explain algebra smh *facepalm*

You grossly misunderstood my entire point. Real world physics isn't the same as fictional physics at all, that's what I meant by that point.

Also, I already debunked Plagueis doing any of this. He never did, so your point is irrelevant.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not familiar with Star Wars, but I ctrl+f'd "dimension" in this thread for some laughs, and found this article being pseudo-scientifically linked to 3-D beings being able to contain 11-D thoughts in their mind, which shows absolutely zero understanding of the article, and the underlying physics at play.

That article was talking about "dimensions" in a network connectivity sense, rather than a spatial dimensions sense, and it even explicitly says so in the article.

In summary, a 3-D being's brain is only 3-D, and giving it "ego death" is only 3-D hax.

I have no idea what the **** you're arguing for since you're all over the place, but randomly looking through and seeing something so horrendously wrong does not leave me confident that you're correct.

 

[Dacreepinshadow]

@Agnaa

Not psuedo science

It is created by tracing brain nueral path ways energy signiture by finding which axon is sent info through and etc...

Of course it breaks down to 3 dimensional once you actually full on think though, this is only when the brain is in it's vacuum state

It uses quite alot of math actually as explained in here https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fncom.2017.00048/full

https://www.frontiersin.org/files/A...00048-HTML-r3/image_m/fncom-11-00048-g002.jpg

Things aren't psuedo science because you claim it is, they are psuedo science when they are

____________________________________________________________________________

Definition of pseudoscience

a system of theories, assumptions, and methods erroneously regarded as scientific
____________________________________________________________________________

This still used scientific method..... It never claims this effect of these informational substructures applies to the brain. Also YES it is referring to these things in a network connectivity sense, but keep in mind the underlying conditions that cause this....

A brain in a calm state in essentially it's own "vacuum" state.... It's a classic example of the brains limited information structure aka the real component applying to an imaginary component, which creates well.... Never ending fractals showing all possible probability states as a direct result of laplace transformation

watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2y7n6jw5d0&list=PLIQsj-TfQLN3yeMHWnGrVTxM09gM8k1pZ&index=10 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_u18uFEoN0&list=PLIQsj-TfQLN3yeMHWnGrVTxM09gM8k1pZ&index=8

to actually understand crap

Sooooo, Essentially what i'm saying is this doesn't imply any MAGICAL connection..... But, It shows the potential of the brain to understand information on all scales, therefor acting as a effective 10th dimensional degree of freedom potential.... NOW Our brain actually isn't 11th dimensional, but it represents the fact that we still can think OF 11th dimensional objects since it is the routing nature of the brain at it's base level LMFAO....

How do you think us doing this science, or thinking about different realities, would be possible if the brain didn't have this potential, and since it shows this potential which is accessed by applying logical constants aka the imaginary componts to fixed constant aka this potential is only accessed by MATH..... Therefor there is no reason to think of our logic to be limited to 3 dimensional, when in fact if all we have to do it apply a couple of constants through math clearly indicates NON 3 dimensional potential.....

Saying we only have only 3 dimensional potential would to assume a reality without time, with relativity, and without spacetime. Which clearly has already been proven true, soooooo..... this is why i mentioned a mental health institute LOLOLOLOL

It swiftly followed occums razor and therefor is considered proper science

CONCLUSION: Things aren't the way they are because you say it is, you never created the dictionary.... Sooo, Start supporting your stuff with evidence next time since the only validity you have is being a random guy online like me.