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Death Battle Season Ten Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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Didn’t know how crazy the discourse is, not in the DB server and lowkey thought people were being hyperbolic. Personally when I found out who won I was only annoyed for like a couple minutes before moving on with my day.

Death Battle results are just the opinions of some random dudes on the internet, it’s not that serious.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Didn’t know how crazy the discourse is, not in the DB server and lowkey thought people were being hyperbolic. Personally when I found out who won I was only annoyed for like a couple minutes before moving on with my day.

Death Battle results are just the opinions of some random dudes on the internet, it’s not that serious.
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With how much sway they have over common perception I guess having one’s preferred character be validated as stronger means they won’t be a pariah.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
jesus christ you people are fucking insane

I disagree with the result myself (I'll die before I admit Bill Cipher has infinite/immeasurable speed) but the episode itself was phenomenal across the board (easy 10/10) with there being what I consider to be a clear emphasis on making the ending written in such a way that Discord fans wouldn't immediately start a war over the result. It is absolutely not something worth reposting that blatantly faked screenshot over, especially when it's getting to the point where the DB crew is basically going "fuck it, you get nothing from us" (and I can't blame them, honestly) in regards to an episode that obviously had an absurd amount of love and effort poured into it.

Like I know I of all people am not in a position to claim that people are stepping out of line but like. Goddamn this is bad. Grow up.
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Yeah, I can’t be too hard on it despite my objections to the research and I want it to succeed massively. Everything about the episode was perfect minus the result, and that is what is driving me up a wall. In a better timeline, this would be my undisputed favorite episode in the entire show bar none, my own Goku VS Superman. But an incorrect/sloppily explained verdict and refusal of the crew to elaborate is what holds it back for me. Like a speck of shit on a bar of solid gold. And for that, I will never forgive them.
 
Speedyroj said:
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And Speedy, sorry for all the shit you were put through. Nobody deserves that for just doing their job, even if you do have rancid takes and are a tyrannical moderator.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
"Ruined the matchup" wow this is worse than I thought, I'm outta here (again)

Although I'm genuinely curious if things were always this bad here, or if I only noticed recently.
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Maverick_Zero_X said:
Didn’t know how crazy the discourse is, not in the DB server and lowkey thought people were being hyperbolic. Personally when I found out who won I was only annoyed for like a couple minutes before moving on with my day.

Death Battle results are just the opinions of some random dudes on the internet, it’s not that serious.
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The views are understandable and I'll try to explain the reason why I use the term "ruined":
Death Battle is an animated web series focusing on versus debating and it has become well-known among versus debaters. Therefore, their opinions are not too obscure to be ignored, especially considering that Death Battle does not have many competitors in terms of animation making among versus debating animations. Also, Bill VS Discord simply shows that Discord is beaten by Bill after the preview part of the fight animation is ended, which is disrespect to Discord's capability.

Therefore, Death Battle's opinions can be easily enshrined. (e.g. A: "I think Discord is stronger" B: "Shut up! Death Battle shows that your beloved Discord is not that strong. Bill is stronger!")

Thankfully, Crossover Colosseum has Bill loses to Sephiroth and that animation has both Bill and Sephiroth demonstrated their abilities and power from their point of view. I'm not fully a fan of Crossover Colosseum's versus debating analyzing, but they have a standard which is somewhat different from ours (their scaling rules, their abandoning of usage of TNT), they are at least following their own rules. Death Battle adopts a rule similar to many versus debating and verdict based on such rule can be easily challenged and has been challenged. (e.g. viewing VS Battles Wiki profiles)
 
Chianli said:
image.png

from artorimachi_meteoraft
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Tots_Real said:
So we like all agree that bill winning is stupid right? Like I'm a Gravity Falls fan whose only knowledge of mlp is like some Youtube videos back when I was popular and fan art but even I know that most of the Bill arguments are at best headcanons.
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fandom_0ホルスファルコン将軍0 said:
I actually hope the shitstorm gets comparable to that episode because maybe then we’ll get a QnA or cast. I wanna see Liam squirm
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"I wonder why they aren't doing a QnA! It doesn't make any sense! It totally deserves unpaid work despite our aggression!""

This is just a handful of comments I've noticed. It's bad here, lol.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
This remark aged well
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I saw it coming from a mile away tbh. I've seen this thread's attitude towards this matchup since before it was even in contention for the ballot, and I've seen the attitude leading up to it. After seeing the info laid out in G1^2 and the fact that I thought a Bill win was honestly pretty solid and very likely, and the ensuing reaction to said blog, I figured things would go bad, but 3 pages of vitriol in like a day is lol.

I dunno if this place has always been this bad or if the downwards spiral is reaching its peak, but I think I'm done here ya'll. I don't think I'll be popping in here all that much anymore, it's just getting to be generally too toxic and I'm not having much fun talking or debating with others here anymore lol.
 
Okay, good.

While I really do like this episode's animation, the final sequence at the end is mind-boggling because there's literally no explanation for what happened.
I am referring specifically to Bill grabbing Discord within Bill's own mind and killing him...what? Bill doesn't have a single power that would allow him to actually fight back here. Even the G1^2 Blog, which wanked Bill to the heavens, didn't have any way for Bill to win here: they concluded that Bill could revive himself with the incantation and/or just time travel before the mind manip happened. Not only are both of these completely combat inapplicable, the time travel literally doesn't exist, and death battle acknowledges either. So...how did Bill win here?

On a sidenote, the discussion around this battle has been awful because people are literally inventing powers and resistances for Bill. Examples include:
  • Resistance to Mindhax (he never showed this)
  • Resistance to Power Nullification (you have to make an unbelievably reach-y interpretation of the totem punching the Shacktron)
  • Useful or even combat-applicable Precognition (If Bill had any way to consistently see the future--much less in the middle of combat--then the entire series would look completely different. Frankly, the fact that people are arguing precog for a guy who couldn't see Gideon breaking his deal with him literally minutes after the fact is unbelievable.)
  • Time Travel (not even REMOTELY implied within the show or books and based off a massive reach with bill possessing Blendin. If he could time travel at all, why didn't he, how you say...ever do this? Why isn't it even implied?)
  • Combat-applicable resurrection (...nope, he does not have this.)
  • Soul Manipulation in his physical form (...he only ever ripped out peoples' Dipper's soul in the Mindscape, after Dipper made a deal.)
  • Plot Manipulation (no.)
Bill's power levels are already being wanked terribly but that's about par for the course with most battles. What takes me back is how Bill supporters were getting pretty close to arguing headcanons to make the dorito win. The battle's out now, so this is a whatever, but I wanted to mention this at least once.
 
Now before we begin I just want to make clear that I’m a big fan of both of these series, I remember watching GF’s all that long time ago when it was first airing and even watched the finale live with my best bud, an not long after I ended up getting into MLP and I enjoyed that quite a lot to, finishing the series(like 3 years since G4 finished dang) and the movies, so obviously I do have fair amount of attachment to these characters, both Bill Cipher and Discord are such fun, great characters so seeing my dream match come to life in on itself is such a treat. With that said, let’s begin.

Easily got to be one of my favourite rundowns in the entire show, like seriously can’t express how overly joyed I am to discuss this when I initially had some worry it wouldn’t meet to my expectations but oh boy hehe did they not only blow them out of the water they transcended them.

Going to start things off with the character I have slight preference towards, it was such a spectacle to gaze upon, crammed full with hilarious gags, phenomenal voice acting and line delivery, like seriously Guyet did such a remarkable job as Discord that you could’ve told me it was John De Launcie and I wouldn’t have questioned it, which is such a feat in on itself, his portrayal for being the charismatic, smooth talking Lord of Chaos was sooo good! There were some jokes in there that made me laugh my ass off like the Thor immeasurable speed meme that was used in his time travel feat, Discord warping Wiz & Boomsticks physical forms to Chad/Boomstick was so good,

The actual rundown paid homage and respect to his lore and for the first showed genuine respect for MLP, a massive jump from the last entries, the Wiz calling old gen Boomstick for his lack of common ground with MLP and his character acknowledging he’s a changed, wiser man with development with his daughter was sweet. I haven’t read the comics not really, but I could still recognise this and that enough and it was still very cool lore to hear, the breakdown was overall super good but the writing was spectacular.

Boy oh boy…is it good to be back!, who really doesn’t love(-hate) this unhinged evil triangular demon, much like Discords rundown his was also super great, the way the host leads sooth you into the origins of Gravity Falls and it’s populace like Old Man Macgucket references very good, very good. Bill also breaking into Wiz an Boomstick’s rundown as he ends up dealing with Wiz and posessing him was hilarious, Bill’s voice actor John was also super good, not quite Alex Hirsh but a damn good impression that brought up the charm and demonic nature so well done alongside the writing I hardly even noticed.

The rundown brought back to me nostalgia of the finale of Gravity Falls weirdmageddon, Wiz deciphering the anomalies of this county of weirdness, the lore behind Bill’s inception. There’s a lot an this is already getting lengthy an others have said so I’ll leave it here, oh but quick but the Goku-Beerus clash that Bill was looking into and the whole “Bill’s real name?” part was both hilarious AF and so cool!

perhaps it was just me being so swallowed up by the debating scene that I didn't get the change to fully process the fight at first,
BUT HOLY SHAWT! THAT WAS AMAZING! It’s just topped my tier list for best sprite animation on the entire show beating out Diocard and that’s a high bar, this fight is in a way what I wanted from MMH vs SS, going utterly bawtshit with all the cosmic-y powers, mind games and inter-dimensional madness, this fight has it all. Both Bill and Discord performed by Guyet and John respectively do a phenomenal job that truly bring out the characters, Bill’s sheer disturbing and while charming & terrifying demeanour, Discord’s utterly nonesensical nature being the Lord of Chaos and charismatic smooth taker that would reel anyone in.

This fight makes use of a lot of different art styles and animations, like we’ve seen in Saitama vs Popeye with the bubbles of madness, it was so cool, this whole reality warping battle I loved more, something that exceeded the bar past episodes have made.

The way this fight takes is very similar to Black Adam vs Apocalypse with the one invading the anti-hero’s home, laying wast to it while the last line of hope for there world tries to put a stop to the threat.

This entire fight is sooo good! The lines, the battle score fire, the ending! it’s one of the best in DB’s pantheon of episodes that had me at an aw!, if there was anything that embodies “have your cake and eat it” it would be this, Discord conjures an illusion so real even the all-seeing eye believed it, an trapped Bill in the nightmare realm in a heroic sacrifice to save his own and his beloved Fluttershy, the letter he wrote at the beginning also looks like it was a farewell in case which hits every harder now, this move being a finale **** you and Discord outstaging in such a Discord way that’s just perfect, perfect, him getting the last laugh and the isosceles freaking out only made it a dozen times better.
Bill won, but Discord won the war, a very pyrrhic victory and antithesis to Black Adam’d.

really didn’t know who was going to win and it had my mind blown away, Bill and Discord’s bouncing off each other’s interactions and especially Discord’s lines…mmmmmm so damn amazing, this fight’s also crammed full of easter eggs like Trunks vs Silver, many I haven’t even picked up on but just to name a few, Sans, Rick Sanchez fighting Doctor Hooves(possible nod?) maaaan…what can I say this fight is amazing, honestly being truthful but I feel like I’ve only scratched the tip of the iceberg off it all and admittedly am trying to keep it spoiler free. I could go on for hours and hours and hours on this but should probably wrap this up lol, leave that to the professionals.

P.S Want to quote a bit from another users writeup on Billcord(this P.S not me), as someone's review I read on Billcord with the ending, but it was a perfect closer to both of the characters that emphasises's the terror of Bill and the compassion and personal growth of Discord all the while issuing it in with his inexplicable penchant for deception and pooling the wool over someone’s eye in the most roundabout and convoluted way imaginable. A way that feels emotional, gratifying and powerful all wrapped up in a nice recursive conclusion.
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Not going to dwell on this segment too long because as expected of whoever would’ve won, it’s controversial AF, but I’ll try my best to sum my thoughts here without going too much in detail, on one end I really, really loved this episode and it was so good. But on the other the post-analysis left a bitter taste in my mouth that's difficult for me to swallow, an to put more simply I don't agree with, DB wasn’t able to sell to me Bill taking the W, an to be honest there arguments felt flimsy and questionable since Vabito, even putting aside the possible arguments for 5d Bill which I’m not on board or Discord not taking Bill seriously.

Eh, Imma just lump Billcord with Diocard for being one of those episode I absolutely love but have a hate-love relationship with the research, metaphorically speaking, both episodes are great for me and with fire tracks may I add, just take serious issue with the post-analysis, but I still enjoy the Wiz/Boomstick antics and articulate vocal performence so it's never been THAT bad for me personally with the death battle show. My preferred character lost but I’m very grateful for this masterpiece of art, these two were both done with dignity and with respect, MLP was definitely given the respect that was absent from its past predecessors, the episode was so very well written and the fight slapped hard. This episode gave me pretty much everything I could’ve wanted for regardless of the Victor

Overall Billcord Score: 11/10
 
Actually, Death Battle has enshrined controversial or outright verdicts in some matchup and the people who questioned such verdict are often labeled as aggressive and therefore they are discredited and their opinion are denied to be discussed, which is not good for a constructive discussion.

Harassing researchers is definitely not a right thing, but it does not mean that their research is flawless. Harassment and criticism are two different things.
 
Ayewale said:
Useful or even combat-applicable Precognition (If Bill had any way to consistently see the future--much less in the middle of combat--then the entire series would look completely different. Frankly, the fact that people are arguing precog for a guy who couldn't see Gideon breaking his deal with him literally minutes after the fact is unbelievable.)
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You know, Discord would arguably have better version of this if we were going to be charitable and give Bill this. Like Bill's clairvoyance or cosmic sense or whatever, is less defined than Discord since he's just able to know anything.
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I kinda wanna see someone make an AMV of the BillCord track. Plenty of footage of both to use lol. Though hopefuly after we get the official lyrics, some of the lines (especially on Bill’s part) are a little hard to understand
 
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