Death Battle REMATCH | Naruto vs Ichigo GRACE

[KillerNerd007]

This genuinely threw me off cause this is the first time someone is acting like this.

 

[KaydeeX]

... do we have an accepted heat range for Ammaterasu than?

Yes
unlike a calc which actually needs to be accepted to be implemented, this is just a pure blatant statement.

 

[Godernet]

this thread is some on both sides.

what are the arguments for both?

 

[Godernet]

also,

• Being affected by TSO has nothing to do with AP, I don't know where anyone gets that from.
• the gap between Naruto and Ichigo's BIQ is practically irrelevant since they're both adequately intelligent enough to fight genius with multi-stage plans, comparing intelligence feats of uninvolved characters to "power scale" intelligence is just semantics and a waste of time, although I don't think anyone will disagree when I say Naruto is a more creative fighter of the two if anything.
• the heat calc being linked for Ichigo is True Shikai, not Fullbring Bankai, a massively stronger form of Ichigo, so its irrelevant here.
• also, no one has brought up Naruto's amps which can bring him from 44 Exatons to 266 Exatons

k, have fun y'all

 

[Robo432343]

also, no one has brought up Naruto's amps which can bring him from 44 Exatons to 266 Exatons

 

[Godernet]

Robo looking at his monitor before making the worst HST match known to man

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

also,

• Being affected by TSO has nothing to do with AP, I don't know where anyone gets that from.
• the gap between Naruto and Ichigo's BIQ is practically irrelevant since they're both adequately intelligent enough to fight genius with multi-stage plans, comparing intelligence feats of uninvolved characters to "power scale" intelligence is just semantics and a waste of time, although I don't think anyone will disagree when I say Naruto is a more creative fighter of the two if anything.
• the heat calc being linked for Ichigo is True Shikai, not Fullbring Bankai, a massively stronger form of Ichigo, so its irrelevant here.
• also, no one has brought up Naruto's amps which can bring him from 44 Exatons to 266 Exatons

k, have fun y'all

1. Already proved why TSBs aren't gonna work outside of AP
2. I can make the argument that Ichigo can do more with less but let's just agree.
3. There is still the regular heat that can instantaneously evaporate rocks on contact.
4. That is with Naruto and Sasuke together

 

[Godernet]

1. Already proved why TSBs aren't gonna work outside of AP

@ me in the comment

2. I can make the argument that Ichigo can do more with less but let's just agree.

3. There is still the regular heat

what would the regular heat be?

4. That is with Naruto and Sasuke together

44 Exa is SPSM, 88 Exa is SPSM + KCM Cloak, 177 Exa is his stronger ninjutsu (rasenshuriken, boil release, rasengan barrage, etc.), Asura Avatar is 266 Exa.

none of those involve Sasuke.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

@ me in the comment

Also yes, since we're equalizing Chakra to Reiatsu, I think its fair to equalize Reishi to Senjutsu, and guess what, everything is made out of Reishi, including Ichigo's body, so he can just resist all of TSO's effects.

Also, Reishi works as nature because everything in every spiritual realm is made of Reishi. The trees, the water, the buildings, everything.

what would the regular heat be?

I looked for a calc but I can't find anything, but from what I found online it would be >20000C

44 Exa is SPSM, 88 Exa is SPSM + KCM Cloak, 177 Exa is his stronger ninjutsu (rasenshuriken, boil release, rasengan barrage, etc.), Asura Avatar is 266 Exa.

That's Asura Avatar and Majestic Susanoo for the 266. At best he would be 177 Exatons. Safe to say the AP diff is negligable and Ichigo will outgrow it

none of those involve Sasuke.

The 266 one does.

 

[Godernet]

I looked for a calc but I can't find anything, but from what I found online it would be >20000C

if it's not an accepted calc yet it probably can't be used anyways so it's safe to disregard that for now.

That's Asura Avatar and Majestic Susanoo for the 266.

yeah because they both have that value

Asura Avatar is bare minimum 266 Exa because its 3 Kurama avatars + a bunch of nature energy.

Majestic Attire is 266 Exa because it's unquantifiably above Asura Avatar.

MA doesn't have to exist in this match for Asura Avatar to be 266 Exa as it is the basis for that value.

The 266 one does.

Majestic Attire does, not Asura Path which Naruto can do on his own.

 

[Godernet]

Also yes, since we're equalizing Chakra to Reiatsu, I think its fair to equalize Reishi to Senjutsu, and guess what, everything is made out of Reishi, including Ichigo's body, so he can just resist all of TSO's effects.

no, it's not, forcing equalizations where they don't apply is not how SBA works.

Natural Energy, which is the discerning aspect of Senjutsu, is only found in nature and is not innately found in living people or souls.

Reishi is innately spiritual matter, the Naruto equivalent would be the spiritual aspect of chakra itself.

and there is a qualitative difference between Natural Energy and Spiritual Energy in Nard which allows it to negate TSO that Reishi, which is more akin to chakra, would not have.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

if it's not an accepted calc yet it probably can't be used anyways so it's safe to disregard that for now.

I'll look for one, I swear it exists somewhere.

yeah because they both have that value

Asura Avatar is bare minimum 266 Exa because its 3 Kurama avatars + a bunch of nature energy.

Majestic Attire is 266 Exa because it's unquantifiably above Asura Avatar.

MA doesn't have to exist in this match for Asura Avatar to be 266 Exa as it is the basis for that value.


Majestic Attire does, not Asura Path which Naruto can do on his own.

Fair I guess, but that also requires prep and 2x isn't gonna be a massive problem for Ichigo, especially since he has better mobility, IR, ANPR based on intent, emotion, and how his opponents see him, and again his own reactive power level.

Blut should also be taken into account here to, with it he has Vene which gives him 665 Exatons of durability.

 

[Robo432343]

we cant equalize chakra and reishi
they are not similar enough

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

no, it's not, forcing equalizations where they don't apply is not how SBA works.

Natural Energy, which is the discerning aspect of Senjutsu, is only found in nature and is not innately found in living people or souls.

Reishi is innately spiritual matter, the Naruto equivalent would be the spiritual aspect of chakra itself.

That would equate to Reiryoku, not Reishi. Reishi is what makes up the enviroment and all within the spiritual realms. It exists to form the bodies of people and animals. Reiryoku is the essence of one's soul. Beyond that, Ichigo can still physically destroy them because he resists all the hax and they are at best 44 Exatons.

 

[Godernet]

That would equate to Reiryoku, not Reishi. Reishi is what makes up the enviroment and all within the spiritual realms. It exists to form the bodies of people and animals. Reiryoku is the essence of one's soul.

Reishi and Reiryoku are both just different pieces of the greater Bleach power system which is innately based around spiritual energy/souls.

in SBA it would equate to the verse equivalent of spiritual power, ofc it won't be one to one because chakra is mechanically different, but based on what they fundamentally are, chakra has more in common with both Reiryoku and Reishi than Natural Energy which is something completely separate from spiritual power.

Beyond that, Ichigo can still physically destroy them because he resists all the hax and they are at best 44 Exatons.

the 44 exaton value is SPSM Nard, who does not have TSO.

TSO are 88 exa for now.

Also, Ichigo being able to negate the other spiritual-based hax in his verse does not equalize to a qualitatively different ability that in the naruto verse can only be interacted with using an energy that Ichigo doesn't have the ability to obtain, Six Paths Senjutsu.

 

[Godernet]

we cant equalize chakra and reishi
they are not similar enough

they're far more similar in composition than Reishi and Natural energy

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Reishi and Reiryoku are both just different pieces of the greater Bleach power system which is innately based around spiritual energy/souls.

in SBA it would equate to the verse equivalent of spiritual power, ofc it won't be one to one because chakra is mechanically different, but based on what they fundamentally are, chakra has more in common with both Reiryoku and Reishi than Natural Energy which is something completely separate from spiritual power.

Reishi equates to Senjutsu through being able to also be absorbed for more power, hence Quincies and their absorbtion. Reishi also is an energy found everywhere. Chakra has no similarity to Reishi at all. It also is unable to be sensed or touched by those who are not fully spiritually aware as mortals, i.e not quincies nor fullbringers. I'm not gonna push this much because.....

the 44 exaton value is SPSM Nard, who does not have TSO.

TSO are 88 exa for now.

Also, Ichigo being able to negate the other spiritual-based hax in his verse does not equalize to a qualitatively different ability that in the naruto verse can only be interacted with using an energy that Ichigo doesn't have the ability to obtain, Six Paths Senjutsu.

.....TSBs only neg ninjutsu, not physicals, and Ichigo resists everything they do so it's apples to oranges to say they negate beating the shit out of them with a sword, especially since Ichigo is stronger so no-selling via raw dura also isn't possible. That's why it's limited.

 

[Godernet]

Reishi equates to Senjutsu through being able to also be absorbed for more power,

Being able to absorb more of an energy doesn’t help if they aren’t qualitatively similar.

Natsu can absorb flames for power, are we equating Fairy Tail Fire Magic to Reishi now?

If we go by that logic chakra can be absorbed for more power too.

Meanwhile continuous absorption of Natural Energy turns you to stone.

What the power system contextually and qualitatively is matters more than the abilities they provide being similar when talking about verse specific hax and resistances for equalization.

Reishi also is an energy found everywhere. Chakra has no similarity to Reishi at all.

Meanwhile Chakra is found everywhere yet Natural Energy is not.

It also is unable to be sensed or touched by those who are not fully spiritually aware as mortals, i.e not quincies nor fullbringers

That’s pm irrelevant to equating the two since Natural Energy is not like that either.

.....TSBs only neg ninjutsu, not physicals, and Ichigo resists everything they do so it's apples to oranges to say they negate beating the shit out of them with a sword, especially since Ichigo is stronger so no-selling via raw dura also isn't possible. That's why it's limited.

Idk who told you that because not only is that not true but that’s not even what’s currently accepted.

TSO can erase people, objects, raw chakra, and jutsu

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

That’s pm irrelevant to equating the two

Idk who told you that because not only is that not true but that’s not even what’s currently accepted.

Prove it can null physicals without Existence Erasure.

TSO can erase people, objects, raw chakra, and jutsu

That's EE brother, Ichigo resists.

I'll get to any more arguments tomorrow

 

[Godernet]

Prove it can null physicals without Existence Erasure.

It was shown and stated to have decontructive properties like Particle Style

That's EE brother, Ichigo resists.

Does he resist deconstruction?

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

It was shown and stated to have decontructive properties like Particle Style

Does he resist deconstruction?

Yes, he resists Kurohitsugi, which decons on an atomic level.

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Not only did Ichigo resist atomic deconstruction, he no selled that bitch

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

Anyways, I'm actually gonna sleep rn.

 

[Robo432343]

where was it stated TSO only negs ninjutsu

 

[Robo432343]

Anyways, I'm actually gonna sleep rn.

gn pookie

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

where was it stated TSO only negs ninjutsu

The profile only implies that it negs any jutsu other than Senjutsu. As for physical attacks, it only poses a threat to those who don't resist decon and EE, but it wasn't stated it can neg physical attacks if people resist the effects of touching them. If someone wants to change that, make a CRT, but as of now they won't stop Ichigo from bisecting it with Zangetsu.

gn pookie

 

[RanaProGamer]

I like how we all can debate and be nice to one another

 

[ReaperAndBlues]

I like how we all can debate and be nice to one another

This is far better than the older debates (I may be new but I looked at them and holy shit.)

 

[KillerNerd007]

no, it's not, forcing equalizations where they don't apply is not how SBA works.

Natural Energy, which is the discerning aspect of Senjutsu, is only found in nature and is not innately found in living people or souls.

Reishi is innately spiritual matter, the Naruto equivalent would be the spiritual aspect of chakra itself.

and there is a qualitative difference between Natural Energy and Spiritual Energy in Nard which allows it to negate TSO that Reishi, which is more akin to chakra, would not have.

Chakra is an internal energy system, much like Reiatsu, and Reishi is energy found in the enviroment, everything is made out of Reishi, much like how Senjutsu is energy from the enviroment.

I think its fairly reasonable to equalize the two as another comment said prior.

 

[KillerNerd007]

Being able to absorb more of an energy doesn’t help if they aren’t qualitatively similar.

Natsu can absorb flames for power, are we equating Fairy Tail Fire Magic to Reishi now?

If we go by that logic chakra can be absorbed for more power too.

Meanwhile continuous absorption of Natural Energy turns you to stone.

What the power system contextually and qualitatively is matters more than the abilities they provide being similar when talking about verse specific hax and resistances for equalization.

Meanwhile Chakra is found everywhere yet Natural Energy is not.

That’s pm irrelevant to equating the two since Natural Energy is not like that either.

Idk who told you that because not only is that not true but that’s not even what’s currently accepted.

TSO can erase people, objects, raw chakra, and jutsu

Fairy Tail is irrelevant to the point you know.

Its kind of crazy how we all the sudden need to pick apart specific details to make the two different or seem different, when their baseline is already pretty similar as is.

 

[KillerNerd007]

Yes
unlike a calc which actually needs to be accepted to be implemented, this is just a pure blatant statement.

Ok what was the calc?

 

[Noes]

no, it's not, forcing equalizations where they don't apply is not how SBA works.

Natural Energy, which is the discerning aspect of Senjutsu, is only found in nature and is not innately found in living people or souls.

Reishi is innately spiritual matter, the Naruto equivalent would be the spiritual aspect of chakra itself.

No, reishi and senjutsu can be equated. Senjutsu is basically nature energy, so what does nature energy consist of? It comes from nature, especially from natural energy sources such as water, soil, air, etc.
and the water in the bleach, the air, the soil, the plants are made up of a reishi, and it is the reishi that gives them this nature energy and the sources of their energy, it is similar to the reikyoku chakra, not reishi.

 

[Tatsumi504]

No, reishi and senjutsu can be equated. Senjutsu is basically nature energy, so what does nature energy consist of? It comes from nature, especially from natural energy sources such as water, soil, air, etc.
and the water in the bleach, the air, the soil, the plants are made up of a reishi, and it is the reishi that gives them this nature energy and the sources of their energy, it is similar to the reikyoku chakra, not reishi.

They're still different one is energy with nature as it's source while the other forms those things. They're not remotely the same. You can get reishi by breaking down spirit matter but you can't get nature energy by breaking down nature.

 

[Noes]

They're still different one is energy with nature as it's source while the other forms those things. They're not remotely the same. You can get reishi by breaking down spirit matter but you can't get nature energy by breaking down nature.

What I mean is that the reason stone is called stone is reishi. Reishi creates everything and natural energy sources are also composed of reishi. It is basically reishi that gives this energy and essence to the soil, water and plants.

 

[Robo432343]

Naruto's amps can go up to 266 exatons
so he's the stronger one here?

 

[Noes]

Naruto's amps can go up to 266 exatons
so he's the stronger one here?

I can't say anything about this issue, but I think Ichigo is stronger with amp and this is still debatable. Rather, do Naruto have resistance to all the effects of SC? I saw that he only resists the paralysis incentive. Do they have resistance to fear manipulation, physical pressure, spiritual pressure and etc.?

 

[RanaProGamer]

I can't say anything about this issue, but I think Ichigo is stronger with amp and this is still debatable. Rather, do Naruto have resistance to all the effects of SC? I saw that he only resists the paralysis incentive. Do they have resistance to fear manipulation, physical pressure, spiritual pressure and etc.?

Naruto resists fear manipulation, what do you mean by physical pressure?

 

[Noes]

Naruto resists fear manipulation, what do you mean by physical pressure?

Can you post a link from your profile? and physical pressure is the force applied to your body

 

[KillerNerd007]

Naruto's amps can go up to 266 exatons
so he's the stronger one here?

Ichigo also has amps, like the 10 times for Blut or Cero with its higher amp and Gran Rey Cero with its higher than 10 times amp.

 

[KillerNerd007]

Oh and also, Naruto has no answer to spatial manip.

Btw, still questioning on him having those amps without Sasuke.