DEATH BATTLE! Accuracy Scale [Part 8, The Rebirth]

[WeeklyBattles]

Pre-Crisis wouldn't have been used if they didn't think they were the same person as Post-Crisis.

Man its almost like getting th rating of a character with over a century of comics is harder than a charcter with a single straightforward series

 

[The_Smashor]

Man its almost like getting th rating of a character with over a century of comics is harder than a charcter with a single straightforward series

And it's almost like going back and revising said profiles is a literally Herculean task and nobody wants to do it and our rules for Marvel and DC that keep them at 4-B are just to not overwork the staff, rather than to make the profiles more accurate.

Edit: Not like that's a bad thing, DB can't get it right most of the time and they're getting paid, we shouldn't expect unpaid volunteers to be perfect or work that hard for what's ultimately a hobby.

Anyways, this accuracy scale is based on an imperfect webshow compared to our imperfect profiles. I was simply following the rules determined by the OP.

 

[Sorvoe551]

I return. So to catch up:

KH3 King Mickey vs Legends Yoda: Holding off with placement for now (updating the list at the end of the season, or hiatus, whichever comes first), but currently, due to the nerfs KH received, it's Wrong, Decent. If by the end of the season KH is back up to its former level thanks to the Zeus and Roxas feats mentioned, then it's probably Right, Decent. I'll have to double check the SW AP and Speed to verify that at that point.

@The_Smashor

While I completely agree that Pre Hal is not Post Hal, I still believe that the argument in the episode "Hal > Kilowag > Crisis Bang = Multiversal" makes it clear that they are using Pre-Crisis Hal. This was later confirmed in the DB QnA for the episode, where Liam went through each and every question and used several GL comic panels as evidence for his arguments, all of which were Pre-Crisis. Now, does the flawed argument affect the accuracy of the episode? Yes, and I will make that change when I get a chance. However, it still means that they used Pre-Crisis Hal in the fight.

Pit vs Sora: Since it's only DDD Sora, his rating should stay consistent since Zeus and Roxas' stuff didn't happen until 3. If Pit is getting a redo, then I'll wait for news on that before proceeding. Both series have jumped a lot lately and I don't want to change that one episode's placement every few weeks.

Ganon vs Dracula: If Ganon is getting powered up, I still think Drac's regen, hax, and Big Holy Nuke should allow him to take Ganon down

@BlackDarkness679

Hm...interesting point. Scorpion isn't labeled as a revenant in his profile, but what happened to him in MKX makes that argument clear. However, Ryu vs Scorpion came out on Halloween 2014, six months before MKX was released. Unless there's a comic or older game lore to confirm that Scorpion is soulless in MK9 or earlier, then I would consider it. Regardless, Ryu is still far stronger and faster then Scorpion, so he can vaporize him with a Shinku Hadouken

 

[The_Smashor]

While I completely agree that Pre Hal is not Post Hal, I still believe that the argument in the episode "Hal > Kilowag > Crisis Bang = Multiversal" makes it clear that they are using Pre-Crisis Hal. This was later confirmed in the DB QnA for the episode, where Liam went through each and every question and used several GL comic panels as evidence for his arguments, all of which were Pre-Crisis. Now, does the flawed argument affect the accuracy of the episode? Yes, and I will make that change when I get a chance. However, it still means that they used Pre-Crisis Hal in the fight.

Isn't the point that it's compared to our profiles? Because it's really wrong compared to our profiles. It's up in the air if it's accurate otherwise, obviously, because Comics.

 

[Tipper17]

it still accurate cause silver age hal was in
no ifs about

 

[The_Smashor]

it still accurate cause silver age hal was in
no ifs about

Silver Age Hal was in for incorrect reasons, and wouldn't have been in if it wasn't for those incorrect reasons. How many times do I need to explain this to you before it gets through your thick skull? You have provided no counterarguements, your entire argument is "I'm right and your wrong". You aren't debating, you're just endlessly restating your opinion without any additional facts or evidence. Shut the hell up if you don't have anything new to add.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Legends Yoda is 4-B via scaling to Palpatine who caused entire stars to burst

 

[Tipper17]

Silver Age Hal was in for incorrect reasons, and wouldn't have been in if it wasn't for those incorrect reasons. How many times do I need to explain this to you before it gets through your thick skull? You have provided no counterarguements, your entire argument is "I'm right and your wrong". You aren't debating, you're just endlessly restating your opinion. Shut the hell up if you don't have anything new to add.

and you done nothing but repeating the same shit
there shit to argue Hal being the same guy after the Crisis which they stated to be it
even if you don't want to agree on that it still doesn't change shit cause at the end of the day It wasn't Post Crisis Hal vs Alien X
It was Silver Age+Post Crisis+Rebirth vs Alien X
nothing changes shit stays the same
so how about you take your own advice on this shit cause everyone else moved on from a fight that was TWO ******* YEARS AGO

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Hm...interesting point. Scorpion isn't labeled as a revenant in his profile, but what happened to him in MKX makes that argument clear. However, Ryu vs Scorpion came out on Halloween 2014, six months before MKX was released. Unless there's a comic or older game lore to confirm that Scorpion is soulless in MK9 or earlier, then I would consider it. Regardless, Ryu is still far stronger and faster then Scorpion, so he can vaporize him with a Shinku Hadouken

Just so you know both MK and SF go through some big revisions atm, base Ryu would get downgraded afaik, Scorpion tier im not sure if it affects him much, but basically pre-MK9 and post-MK9 will have separate profiles

 

[The_Smashor]

there shit to argue Hal being the same guy after the Crisis which they stated to be it

DB stating something dosn't make it correct, unless you want to say that every incorrect fight is gospel.

even if you don't want to agree on that it still doesn't change shit cause at the end of the day It wasn't Post Crisis Hal vs Alien X
It was Silver Age+Post Crisis+Rebirth vs Alien X

No. It wasn't. DB dosn't use Pre-Crisis (As seen in literally every other DC match), and only used Pre-Crisis this time due to false information.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

KH doesn't deserve its nerfs

 

[Livinmeme]

KH doesn't deserve its nerfs

true

 

[Tipper17]

DB stating something dosn't make it correct, unless you want to say that every incorrect fight is gospel.

M8 theres actually a case for iit so yeah
whether you buy or not is not my problem

No. It wasn't. DB dosn't use Pre-Crisis (As seen in literally every other DC match), and only used Pre-Crisis this time due to false information.

m8 they still believe and the evidence for GL Crisis is legit
shit we literally had kilowog took the crisis at point blank and some ****** using a GL ring to survive it and Hal referencing how the crisis ****** there ability to TT as easily as they did before

 

[The_Smashor]

We're doing this compared to our own profiles. @Sorvoe551 please correct me if I'm mistaken.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Dracula’s supposd holy nuke is actually not holy it’s Un-holy magic big difference

 

[Sorvoe551]

Catching up:

Hal vs Ben:

It seems the main argument here is whether Pre-Crisis being included should change the ranking and label of the fight. Smashor believes that the false logic chain means that Post-Crisis Hal should have been used the whole time, possibly changing the outcome of the fight. Tipper believes that the logic chain that DB used has evidence to back it up, resulting in the composite character we got. After seeing both sides speak and going back over the episode, I will provide my view of the subject.

Stating the obvious, Pre-Crisis Hal was referenced and used for the analysis of this fight by the DB researchers. The event where Kilowag saved his people from Crisis' destruction before they were later slaughtered by Sinestro provided their chain to Pre, resulting in a Composite Hal for all intents and purposes. This is clear. However, those on the DB Discussion Thread proved a while back that there were two parts to the Crisis. The initial multiversal collision that Kilowag tanked was pretty powerful, but there was a reality-altering wave that was held back by a higher deity to allow the heroes to stop a villain's plan. Once it was done, the deity allowed it to happened, resulting in several big heroes, including Hal, being erased from reality, as proven by a panel showing a picture of the JLA not including him as one of the members. I don't remember the specific details, but that event was discussed heavily, proving that the Pre chain doesn't really exist. Hal didn't survive Crisis and Kilowag survived the raw physical force, not the hax, which Pre could obviously do.

With that being said, do I believe that the fight is accurate? Yes, but with several asterisks. Since they used a composite Hal, Pre's hax and strength and Post's speed allows him to easily beat Alien X and the Omnitrix. However, I cannot deny that the logic chain they used to reach that composite was not accurate at all, and if the crux of your argument is factually incorrect, your entire argument falls apart. Therefore, I believe that the following compromise should satisfy both parties.

Hal vs Ben will still be considered Right, since Composite Hal would definitely wipe the floor with X in a match. However, it will plummet to the bottom of Right, Decent since the main base of their argument was completely wrong. Everything else was well researched, as the QnA proved. I believe this should prove satisfactory.

@Abysswalker2126

The episode quotes one of the Castlevania games where you can equip Demonic Mageto (though it's called Demonic Disaster in this instance). To quote the attack's description:

"Magic that creates a massive explosion, purging everything in the vicinity with holy flames."

Therefore, the holy nuke still stands.

@TyranoDoom30

Correct. Calculating Zeus' feat as DB did puts it at about 4.23 FOE, or High 4-C. While that's not good enough by itself, Sora fought the Titans effectively by himself several times and they could overpower Zeus easily. Would power-scaling allow Mickey to catch up? Probably not. However, with the speed feat, that puts Mickey as much faster than Yoda. That should allow a win through magical hax

 

[Abysswalker2126]

That’s The description of the Demonic megato that the innocent Devils uses AKA the ones used Against Dracula and his forces whilst Dracula’s Demonic Megato utilized Chaos manip not Holy Manip not only that but that description is from a Japanese guide and Holy fire part instead could be translated to Hell fire instead Thus it could just be a mistranslation

 

[Dust_Collector]

Whether or not the attack truly is holy doesn't matter much, there's no proof it can destroy souls so Ganondorf would regenerate from it anyway.

 

[Sorvoe551]

If that's the case, Dracula can absorb his soul and win at that point

 

[The_Smashor]

Also, resurrection needs to be close to instant for it to count, as seen with Yoda.

 

[The_Smashor]

Alright, I thought I'd analyze Red vs Blue. It's not Word of God, unlike Meta vs Carolina, I might add. RoosterTeeth had a part, but weren't nearly as involved (Also it wasn't an actual RvB episode). There are also a good number of mistakes.

1. The 50 Megaton Bomb was only 10 Megatons and is clearly an outlier. Why don't they mention Lopez allegedly surviving the Big Bang while they're at it?
2. Simmons changing his outfit in four seconds is a gag feat, and probably shouldn't be counted.
3. They mentioned all of Tex's robot bodies should have about the same strength, but they failed to mention that Church and Lopez have the same bodies, and would also scale to flipping Sheila. Church dosn't really like doing physical stuff and Lopez has probably flipped Warthogs over a lot so it's pretty consistent.

There might be things I'm forgetting, too.

 

[Dust_Collector]

If that's the case, Dracula can absorb his soul and win at that point

Draculas soul steal isn't exactly the most in character thing he can do since he's done it a grand total of once so it's unlikely he'll pull that off before Ganon dismembers him beyond repair with the Sword of Six Sages.

 

[The_Smashor]

Dracula dosn't need to soul steal since it takes a really long time for Ganon's Low-Godly to work, meaning Dracula would win by DB's rules.

 

[Dust_Collector]

It takes seconds to work.

 

[The_Smashor]

And if he does it that fast he wouldn't have enough intelligence to use the Sword of Sages, at least from what's most consistent. Not to mention if Dracula sees someone regening from just their soul he'd probably use soul steal.

Also why are we talking about this when Castlevania's nerfs and/or Zelda's buff's haven't even gone through yet?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Why wouldn't he have enough intelligence to use it? His regen with the Triforce of Power doesn't have the same intelligence dropping weakness as his Calamity Ganon form does.

 

[The_Smashor]

Oh, woops. But still, he dosn't use the sword of sages in character in beast form.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Ganondorf isn't likely to be in beast form unless he gets absolutely pushed to his limit by Dracula, in TP for example he regenerated straight into his human form and continued using the Sword of Six Sages afterwards.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So Shadow vs Ryuko is out now.

 

[Livinmeme]

So Shadow vs Ryuko is out now.

shadow won all fine

 

[The_Smashor]

They also mentioned Solaris scaling in a note box so that's nice.

 

[Oleggator]

Yeah it's mostly pretty much accurate episode.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

They did claim that Ryuko could easily kill Base Shadow if she could hit him, but that's about it.

 

[Oleggator]

And shadow still by them only Rela+ - SoL, but yeah that's it.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah Shadow vs Ryuko should go in the Right, Good section of the list or at the very least rank pretty high into the Right, Decent section.

 

[The_Smashor]

And shadow still by them only Rela+ - SoL, but yeah that's it.

To be fair, that was Base Shadow. Idk if they gave a speed for Super Shadow beyond "Faster than base shadow".

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Though they have a weird way of thinking that Senketsu requires more and more blood the more transformations he uses, even though he only needs a few drops to keep going a for a long time.

 

[Sorvoe551]

Yep, Shadow's pity win was accurate. At least they respected Ryuko enough to show what she can really do. There Kisaragi argument made some sense, an EOS Ryuko, if she still had Senketsu, should be able to access that form again

 

[Tipper17]

Enough with the pity win shit

 

[BlackDarkness679]

It was though, he won against someone he realistically cant lose if they fought, they even hidden the fact he outclasses badly