- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #81
Also in that same comic, we see it refract off metal before it melts it. See page 5 for proof and context
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
DCEU light speed justification (again)
- Thread starter sageof8paths
- Start date
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #82
The point at hand is not that burning is a qualifier for light speed. The point is that it’s firey nature and unrealistic characteristics are identical to how actual magnified sunlight is portrayed in the universe so most of the arguments against it do not stand.
- The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
- The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
- The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
- It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
- It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.
Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats
"Light" or "Laser" dodging is a fairly common trope seen in fiction and often the center of debate regarding characters' speeds, given that light is the fastest known thing in the real universe. This article will set forth the standards of this wiki in determining what is considered a real...vsbattles.fandom.com
Overall, I am neutral here since burning and not exploding isn’t a qualifier for lightspeed necessarily.
- 4,085
- 1,351
I not sure if that counts as refract per se as by definition refract means: “
: to subject (something, such as a ray of light) to refraction
b: to alter or distort as if by refraction
And the definition for refraction is: “ deflection from a straight path undergone by a light ray or energy wave in passing obliquely from one medium (such as air) into another (such as glass) in which its velocity is different”
It is legitimately melting the metal connector to the cars and that also looks like a straight path to me as that argument isn’t completely a good line of thought.
- 4,085
- 1,351
I don’t think we ever completely shown focused sunlight as it was only used as a example, not a outright case in DCEU
- 4,085
- 1,351
Pretty sure it say energy beam which is a good indication it is energy based though.
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #86
Beam: a ray of light
- 4,085
- 1,351
Beam doesn’t have to been a ray of light though. It can also been a laser or a energy beam.
Remember, the scans outright say it is a energy beam too.
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #88
No read my thread above, we were outright showed what a powerful magnifying glass does to sunlight IN the dceu nor real life
- 4,085
- 1,351
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #90
And like I said the word beam is there, it cannot be used against it. Light gives off energy
- 4,085
- 1,351
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #92
You don’t get what I’m saying. I’m saying in the dceu, magnified sunlight is identical to kryptonian heat vision
- 4,085
- 1,351
Yes, but it is also not a strong indication of the beam = speed of light necessarily. You need to have stated that Superman’s heat vision is at speed of light which I think is the main contention of this entire thread to say the least.
- 4,085
- 1,351
While not the same thing, Superman is using energy in his own eyes to focus that energy on its intended target like a laser.
- 4,085
- 1,351
You mean heat and energy. Any energy beams can technically achieve this result as well in fiction regardless of speed.
Last edited:
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,920
- 7,683
Yes. Ergo, energy-based.
When light passes through a magnifying glass, its solar energy is absorbed, intensified, and focused into a concentrated beam of heat. Based on this, we can logically infer that if the the magnified laser the Amazonian used is identical in appearance to Heat Vision, then Heat Vision would be a concentrated beam of heat.
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #97
That beam of heat is still in the form of light bro. A magnifying glass’ main job is to enhance the light. It doesn’t change the fact that it’s still light
- 19,561
- 15,888
Ngl just forgot this thread existed.
So to sum it up again
Points for
So with the Syndercut considered, the most that happens is the the "Flower and Bloom" part of against is possibly ignorable. But the other major points stands as do the two minor points.
Personally even with the SnyderCut I'm rather iffy on it. But if the majority wants to go with them being acceptable that's more or less everything.
So to sum it up again
Points for
- The guidebook states he fires beams of red light
- The reflect off Cyborg's shield in a straight line
- Various novel excerpts state the beams are lasers or like lasers
- They flower and bloom at times when they hit something they don't reflect off of
- They're shown to have physical force (Doomsday's beams pushing Superman back and Cyborg being tossed back from the force of Superman's heat vision)
- The lightspeed calcs are notably beyond the other speed calcs in the series by a large margin
- They come from an unrealistic source
- Clark is stated to have total control of his beams. The issue of course is: Why would Zod, Doomsday or the freshly revived Superman ever hold back their beam speed?
- Heat Vision is sometimes called energy beams rather than lasers
So with the Syndercut considered, the most that happens is the the "Flower and Bloom" part of against is possibly ignorable. But the other major points stands as do the two minor points.
Personally even with the SnyderCut I'm rather iffy on it. But if the majority wants to go with them being acceptable that's more or less everything.
- 15,345
- 11,142
The physical force argument isn't to major since we have accepted light speed lasers that explode, and if Clark can control his heat vision it might mean he can change how destructive they are.
Overall I'm neutral regarding this. I can see arguments for both sides, and sadly I don't think we do a possibly for this kind of thing.
Overall I'm neutral regarding this. I can see arguments for both sides, and sadly I don't think we do a possibly for this kind of thing.
- 7,871
- 8,086
But then again, the HV never caused an explosion on it's own
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #103
Been gone for a while, my bad. Clark is stated to have control of the size and temperature but never stated to have control over its speed. The guidebooks explicitly state that.
It also doesn’t matter if it’s sometimes called energy beams because the literally definition of beam is ray of light. It just means it’s an energetic ray of light. All rays of light have thermal energy so it’s not an anti statement.
Do they really have an unrealistic source? It’s really just superman expelling concentrated sunlight that he absorbed.
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #104
Also the light speed calcs are not far beyond anything we’ve seen in the dceu. Characters casually react to lighting, new dceu accepted calcs are sub-relativistic with the light speed calcs only bumping them up to relativistic( .22 sol) and flash stated to be able to go far beyond the speed of light, superman outflying black hole(I know this isn’t accepted but I’m using it as a supporting feat/example)
The only real anti feat is it pushing cyborg and superman back. But then again the beam of sunlight that the Amazon’s used was able to physically interact with a mother box. And even if it didn’t, are we going to ignore everything else? Like I said before they literally showed us what an intense beam of sunlight would look like and it was identical to kryptonian heat vision.
The only real anti feat is it pushing cyborg and superman back. But then again the beam of sunlight that the Amazon’s used was able to physically interact with a mother box. And even if it didn’t, are we going to ignore everything else? Like I said before they literally showed us what an intense beam of sunlight would look like and it was identical to kryptonian heat vision.
- 15,345
- 11,142
It not being to far from the characters speed doesn't hold bearing on whether it's valid or not (I've been told this before), as it's more about if the lasers are accepted as lightspeed, and then it's discussed on how it scales to the characters consistency.
- 4,085
- 1,351
Not sure if that is true per se. Might need a clarification thread on this since I have mixed feelings as technically light doesn’t do physical force necessarily
- 4,085
- 1,351
https://vsbattles.com/threads/light-speed-qualifications.120346/
Also there is CRT since last year too.
Also there is CRT since last year too.
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #109
To tell if it’s consistent don’t u have to compare it to the other feats?
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #110
Regardless, the only maybe anti-feat is it physically interacting vs the abundance of other proof I showed.
- 13,509
- 5,665
Pretty sure the lightspeed page says it’s easier to accept as being legit if the other feats are close enough to it.
- 19,561
- 15,888
It's still an anti-feat, it's just not longer a major disqualifier.
- 15,345
- 11,142
Yeah, after it's accepted as lightspeed.
I don't agree but it's whatever.
- 707
- 247
- Thread starter
- #114
With the debunks I’ve made here are some conclusions.
Points for
- The guidebook states he fires beams of red light
- The reflect off Cyborg's shield in a straight line
- Various novel excerpts state the beams are lasers or like lasers
- Looks and acts identicaly to concentrated sunlight in the verse.
Here are some misconceptions:
“Guidebook stated Clark has total control of the beams including speed”. If u read the full paragraph u will realize this only refers to the size and heat but NOT speed. Meaning the beam moves light speed at all times and does not slow down or speed up on its own/in the same environment, like actual light
“It comes from an unrealistic source” As said bf it’s just kryptonians expelling the sunlight that they absorbed in a concentrated beam.
“It’s far beyond any other feats/ inconsistent” No it’s not, the light speed calcs only put them at relativistic while the current stats show sub relativistic, based on feats that were done casually. Flash has ftl statements, superman outflies blackhole etc. In fact, some of the light speed calcs don’t even upgrade their stats. For example cyborg blocking the heat vision would still leave him at sub-relativistic and would not be an upgrade.
“They flower and bloom” yep just like magnified sunglight in the verse.
“called an energy beam” yep just like light. Beam’s Oxford meaning is either means “ray of light” Or “plank of wood” And we know supermans not shooting wood lmao. An energy beam would by definition be a ray of light packing noticeable energy until proven otherwise.
“they have physical force” but as LordGriffin said:
“The physical force argument isn't to major since we have accepted light speed lasers that explode, and if Clark can control his heat vision it might mean he can change how destructive they are.”
If there isn’t anything else to address can the changes be applied?
Last edited:
- 2,138
- 2,068
Completely agree
Vizer04
He/Him- 5,097
- 3,144
Very good points
- 19,561
- 15,888
That's still an unrealistic source. A magic slug powering a flashlight would still make the flashlight powered by an unrealistic source, but it wouldn't effect the flashlight being SoL.
In the SnyderCut which is non-canon.
But also FTL may not be the best point to use, since they're slower than the Flash by a far greater margin than just the accepted values for FTL.
In the non-canon Snydercut. This wouldn't be a justification for the mainline universe.
If you want to do a vote tally sure.
- 13,509
- 5,665
While I get what you are trying to say about the “flower and bloom” point being in the SnyderCut, it doesn’t actually change anything here as it is still how Snyder portrays a concentrated beam of natural light, canon or not.
It would be the equivalent of dismissing an author statement about their run just because they are answering a question after their run. By all means, argue that LS HV is inconsistent and doesn’t fit with the other speed feats in the verse but dismissing the magnified sunlight scene is a no go in regards to sage’s point.
It would be the equivalent of dismissing an author statement about their run just because they are answering a question after their run. By all means, argue that LS HV is inconsistent and doesn’t fit with the other speed feats in the verse but dismissing the magnified sunlight scene is a no go in regards to sage’s point.
- 4,771
- 4,347
What in the hell more arc7 pfps
Arc7sweep?
Arc7sweep?
- 19,561
- 15,888
But the source still comes from a material that's not canon to other properties. You can use it as secondary evidence for artistic flair, but its not a major point of evidence for anything outside of the SnyderCut universe.
It would be ignoring a statement about their run when the company hired another writer to go back and rewrite their run and change a vast swath of elements to something else. In that case you wouldn't take the WoG quote as being indicative for the retconned verse.
