DC Comics - Spectre Low 1-C AP Proposal

[Antvasima]

Spectre (possessed by Asmodel) proclaimed "Nothing will stand in my way to annihilate Heaven" and later, Superman recalling the event says "We just stopped one berserk Spectre from tearing down Heaven, Hell, and everything in between, I hope we don't have to go for two."

Asmodel gets defeated before he reaches Heaven, however. He talks a lot in the comic about burning the world that the Presence made in his image, and making him watch.

I tend to be cautious against believing villains saying they can do something, so that is why I feel how I do.

Also I found some more proof of Spectre scaling to Heaven/Hell:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/901918619758370839/1004811836371243019/Screenshot_20220804-233157__01.jpg

Okay. It does seem questionable, yes. Maybe an "At least 2-A, likely Low 1-C" tier would be appropriate based on Transcending's latest guidebook scan? We would need a proper source for it though.

 

[Transcending]

We would need a proper source for it

Day of Judgement Secret Files/Origins.

 

[Deagonx]

I don't think "saving creation from his rampage" means "preventing the literal destruction of heaven and earth."

Based on how he actually performed in the comic, it doesn't seem as though he was a genuine threat to Heaven. Michael seemed fairly unconcerned about the whole thing.

 

[Antvasima]

Based on how he actually performed in the comic, it doesn't seem as though he was a genuine threat to Heaven. Michael seemed fairly unconcerned about the whole thing.

Good point.

Should we let his profile page remain as it currently is, or give him "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C" then? However, wasn't Neron shown to clearly be weaker than The Spectre in this story? Should we give him the same tier as the current one for The Spectre then?

 

[Transcending]

I don't think "saving creation from his rampage" means "preventing the literal destruction of heaven and earth."

What do you think it means then?

Based on how he actually performed in the comic, it doesn't seem as though he was a genuine threat to Heaven. Michael seemed fairly unconcerned about the whole thing

Michael scales above Heaven, and he did help the heroes.

 

[Deagonx]

What do you think it means then?

Saving someone from something means preventing it from happening. Creation was saved from his rampage, yes, but the extent of what that rampage would've entailed is a different matter.

 

[Transcending]

Creation was saved from his rampage, yes, but the extent of what that rampage would've entailed is a different matter.

I mean the scan outright said "all creation".

 

[Antvasima]

So should we use "At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C", "At least 2-A, likely Low 1-C", or just "Low 1-C" by scaling him from being stronger than Neron?

 

[Kuuzo7]

I mean the scan outright said "all creation".

The main problem you do not understand is that, although the Spectre intended to destroy all of Presence Creation as its goal, the means of doing so are questioned because there not evidence for the Spectre being able to do so with its own power during that specific storyline.

To bring evidence from different secondary sources referring to the same event wont lead us anywhere for the simple reason that the storyline itself shows the assistance that the Spectre had in order to accomplish this goal.

 

[Transcending]

The main problem you do not understand is that, although the Spectre intended to destroy all of Presence Creation as its goal, the means of doing so are questioned because there not evidence for the Spectre being able to do so with its own power during that specific storyline.

There's no evidence that he would have used something else, and when visiting the mortal realm he only brought his army, which goes against him bringing some sort of special machine to do it. Even if he would have brought an army to destroy Heaven, I showed before how Spectre would still scale.

To bring evidence from different secondary

It's part of the core issues...

for the simple reason that the storyline itself shows the assistance that the Spectre had in order to be able to accomplish this goal.

I already addressed this before, which you didn't counter.

 

[Deagonx]

I showed before how Spectre would still scale.

You didn't really show, you just said "I think he'd still do enough damage to scale" which I don't find terribly convincing. I think Kuuzo put it best:

although the Spectre intended to destroy all of Presence Creation as its goal, the means of doing so are questioned because there not evidence for the Spectre being able to do so with its own power during that specific storyline.

All we have is Asmodel's word that he was going to do it. I don't think this even warrants a "likely."

 

[Transcending]

You didn't really show, you just said "I think he'd still do enough damage to scale" which I don't find terribly convincing.

To say Spectre wouldn't scale is saying Spectre could do little to no damage, which is completely wrong. Spectre also shouldn't scale below his army regardless.

All we have is Asmodel's word that he was going to do it. I don't think this even warrants a "likely."

Asmodel is knowledgeable on Heaven and don't forget the secret file scan.

 

[Deagonx]

To say Spectre wouldn't scale is saying Spectre could do little to no damage, which is completely wrong.

This is a circular argument. It's completely wrong to say he wouldn't do enough damage to scale, therefore he scales?

Spectre also shouldn't scale below his army regardless.

Why would a general scale to his army?

Asmodel is knowledgeable on Heaven and don't forget the secret file scan.

I addressed the secret file scan, and regardless of how "knowledgeable" he may be, he is still an angry villain making proclamations.

 

[Kuuzo7]

There's no evidence that he would have used something else, and when visiting the mortal realm he only brought his army, which goes against him bringing some sort of special machine to do it. Even if he would have brought an army to destroy Heaven, I showed before how Spectre would still scale.

That's the difference, you can't remotely argue for the Spectre being able to destroy all the Presence Creation on its own based on its performance during that storyline, while I have evidence at hand leaning more towards the fact that the Spectre was going to achieve its ends other than by itself.

And, as a reminder, "means" des not necessarily imply that the Spectre had to resort to machine or artefacts.

You failed to provide any substantial evidence from the storyline supporting your case or any reasoning.

It's part of the core issues...

I get it, that's not the issue I've adressed. Only that it returns to the same problem.

I already addressed this before, which you didn't counter.

Saying that the Spectre could still somehow scale to it because of his involvement in Heaven's destruction, if he had managed to do so, is unquatifiable, just as Superman's contribution at the end of Zero Hour.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-spectre-low-1-c-ap-proposal.139582/post-4966075

According to your own reasoning, any character in the scan above would dtill scale to the "Big Bang", although there is an obvious discrepancy in the contributions made by all these characters. If the Spectre did show he had the capacity to destroy all the Presence's Creation on its own, it would have been unquestioned. However, this is clearly not what's supported by its performance in that specific storyline, again. Not saying there is not a countercase that can be made based on other comics.

 

[Transcending]

That's the difference, you can't remotely argue for the Spectre being able to destroy all the Presence Creation on its own based on its performance during that storyline, while I have evidence at hand leaning more towards the fact that the Spectre was going to achieve its ends other than by itself.

I never said the Spectre was going to destroy Heaven by itself, I said that it can deal great damage to Heaven, which it can as I have already proven before but here's another scan

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/901918619758370839/1004837716124508231/Screenshot_20220805-011534.jpg

And, as a reminder, "means" des not necessarily means that the Spectre had to resort to machine or artefacts.

Can you give me an example of something else the Spectre could have used?

Saying that the Spectre could still somehow scale to it because of his involvement in Heaven's destruction, if he had managed to do so, is unquatifiable, just as Superman's contribution at the end of Zero Hour.

This is a False Analogy, because we are arguing for Low 1-C. In the case of Low 1-C, being involved in the case of the destruction of the object is enough to scale. An example is The Darkest Knight's scaling with bleed. He didn't destroy Bleed completely nor was he doing it alone(Perpetua helped him), but he still scales. If I destroy a standard building, my tier would be about Building level but if I destroy a Low 1-C building, I would scale to Low 1-C because that building would still have a qualitative superiority over 4D.

 

[Transcending]

This is a circular argument. It's completely wrong to say he wouldn't do enough damage to scale, therefore he scales?

I mean the evidences have been pretty clear, it was consistently stated he could damage Heaven properly, which is enough to scale. You can also argue he could destroy it alone based on this scan(it proves at the very least that Spectre can deal great damage)

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/901918619758370839/1004837716124508231/Screenshot_20220805-011534.jpg

Why would a general scale to his army?

Spectre in this context was stated to be superior to Etrigan who in turn Is superior to most demons. The 10th and 11th pages of the first issue also shows Spectre being superior.

I addressed the secret file scan

And I countered it.

and regardless of how "knowledgeable" he may be, he is still an angry villain making proclamations.

Ye but it increases his credibility.

 

[Kuuzo7]

I never said the Spectre was going to destroy Heaven by itself, I said that it can deal great damage to Heaven, which it can as I have already proven

Then provide the evidence supporting that the Spectre can, alone, "deal great damage to Heaven" from the storyline.

which it can as I have already proven

Clearly not from the storyline which is the central point of the disscusion.

before but here's another scan

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/901918619758370839/1004837716124508231/Screenshot_20220805-011534.jpg

I am not of bad faith, I see clearly that it is stated in this secondary source that the Spectre has the power to destroy Heaven. However, as I said before, there is as well a clear asymetry between what is said on the Spectre (or any character) and what's is demonstrated on panel. That's the problem we're talking about.

Can you give me an example of something else the Spectre could have used?

The point went over you head, as I was rectyfing your misunderstanding that I was implying the Spectre had to use "objects" when I used the word "means", while I was only putting forward the difference between the goal of the Spectre that would scale him to the Presence's creation and the the way to achieve it, which, based on the storlyline, was not only with its own power.

This is a False Analogy, because we are arguing for Low 1-C.

Just because "we are arguing for Low 1-C" does not make it a "false analogy", that's not what the words means. But I will come back to this in a next point.

In the case of Low 1-C, being involved in the case of the destruction of the object is enough to scale.

And the same reasoning was used in my previous post inversely on the reproduction of the "Big Bang" at the end of Zero Hour by Superman and other characters who were also involved. If my reasoning does not hold, it's because of your own reasoning on which it is based, not anything else.

An example is The Darkest Knight's scaling with bleed.

That's an instance of a false analogy which can't be used in favor for the Spectre, since, if I remember correctly, TDK being able to affect the Bleed results of his own confrontation with Perpetua.
TDK did not have any support at his sides to achieve this, it was the opposition between their power agaisnt each other that affected the Bleed as result. So this (false) analogy has nothing to do with the Spectre's case in Day of Judgment, but I expect you to provide the same evidence for TDK with the Spectre, if there is any in the first place.

I dont need to dwell further on the rest of point, especially the part of you trying to explain how scaling works, which I'm as well familliar with.

 

[Transcending]

Then provide the evidence supporting that the Spectre can, alone, "deal great damage to Heaven" from the storyline.

I already did.

Clearly not from the storyline which is the central point of the disscusion.

How exactly are they not from the storyline? And even if they weren't, it doesn't matter. They are still valid canon evidences.

I am not of bad faith, I see clearly that it is stated in this secondary source that the Spectre has the power to destroy Heaven. However, as I said before, there is as well a clear assymetry between what is said on the Spectre (or any character) and what's is demonstrated on panel. That's the problem we're talking about.

How exactly is there a clear assymetry? There's literally nothing contradicting the scan.

The point went over you head, as I was rectyfing your misunderstanding that I was implying the Spectre had to use "objects" when I used the word "means", while I only put forward the difference between the goal of the Spectre that would scale him to the Presence's creation and the the way to achieve it, which, based on the storlyline, was not only with its own power.

Again, he doesn't need to destroy the entire thing with his own power. As long as he can damage Heaven, he scales. Whether he has an army is irrelevant.

And the same reasoning was used in my previous post inversely on the reproduction of the "Big Bang" at the end of Zero Hour by Superman and other characters who were also involved. If my reasoning does not hold, it's because of your own reasoning on which it is based, not anything else.

If the Big Bang is infinite/Tier 2 or above, then Supes' feat can absolutely be tired depending on where the Big Bang scales. Naturally though, it would be an Outlier.

That's an instance of a false analogy which can't be used in favor for the Spectre, since, if I remember correctly, TDK being able to affect the Bleed results of his own confrontation with Perpetua.
TDK did not have any support at his sides to achieve this, it was the opposition between their power agaisnt each other that affected the Bleed as result. So this (false) analogy has nothing to

How does that make the cases different though? In TDK's case, he and Perpetua together were destroying Bleed. Whether they were doing it in a confrontation or as a team doesn't make any difference.

Even if Spectre had an army, it wouldn't matter as Spectre would be doing the damage along with his army

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/iVZmIB4UXZZdE5oBY7__IXUGK9d3WcTp8-1gNBnn8q3m5mPV-2p892g9-3jeLai7gbz2tTAsJmo=s0

The same effect is produced. So not a false analogy.

 

[Deagonx]

mean the evidences have been pretty clear, it was consistently stated he could damage Heaven properly, which is enough to scale

Consistently stated? That's a stretch. At best we have the faint echos of his own threat reverberating through onlookers.

You can also argue he could destroy it alone based on this scan(it proves at the very least that Spectre can deal great damage)

Is this promotional material or something? Why would we use this for Canon information?

Spectre in this context was stated to be superior to Etrigan who in turn Is superior to most demons

This is a huge reach. Being stronger than one person in your army isn't the same as being stronger than your entire army.

And I countered it.

No, you didn't. All of creation was saved from his rampage. That doesn't mean his rampage would've literally destroyed all of creation. That's just an assumption.

Ye but it increases his credibility

It's irrelevant. He's a villain making bragadocious claims. How about we use actual feats?

 

[Deagonx]

Again, he doesn't need to destroy the entire thing with his own power. As long as he can damage Heaven, he scales.

This also isn't true. He needs to significantly affect the entire structure, not simply damage it.

 

[Eficiente]

A negative stereotype the wiki has is to lower the standards of what needed to scale to the complete destruction of a structure the higher its tier; most would disagree that trying to conquer or screw up the universe with an army is not 3-A or Low 2-C, but on a tier 1 structure it's just not the same for whatever reason, and a greater amount of users would not take it the same. Not in a "and they have a point" kind of way. This may be the case here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Not in a "and they have a point" kind of way. This may be the case here.

I'm sort of with this point. I don't see valid reasons to scale Spectre to Low 1-C going by everything I've seen from the counter arguments.

 

[Transcending]

This also isn't true. He needs to significantly affect the entire structure, not simply damage it.

That's what I meant.

 

[Transcending]

Consistently stated? That's a stretch. At best we have the faint echos of his own threat reverberating through onlookers.

We have Spectre's statements, Superman's statement, and some of DC's own statements. How is it not consistent?

Is this promotional material or something?

It's from Day of Judgement's kindle page.

Why would we use this for Canon information?

Because it's part of the Product Description? It was given by DC themselves.

This is a huge reach. Being stronger than one person in your army isn't the same as being stronger than your entire army.

But Etrigan himself is more powerful than most of the army.

No, you didn't. All of creation was saved from his rampage. That doesn't mean his rampage would've literally destroyed all of creation. That's just an assumption.

What else could it mean? When combining with Spectre's own statements, I don't see another possibility.

Also Spectre not damaging Heaven himself and completely depending on his army wouldn't make any sense considering he wanted to go to Heaven. Additionally, in their attack on the mortal plane, Spectre did a lot of the total damage. The army could also just be for fighting the residents of Hell and prevent them from stopping Spectre, rather than damaging Heaven directly.

The Kindle page explicitly confirms that Spectre has the power to destroy Heaven.

 

[Kuuzo7]

I already did.

Compile them in a next point without adding anything into it, and let the scan speak for itself.

How exactly are they not from the storyline? And even if they weren't, it doesn't matter. They are still valid canon evidences.

They are based/related to the storyline, not taken from it. Hence the use of "secondary sources" to described them.
Moreover, their validity has not been questioned, but only the fact that they do not reflect the performance of the Spectre in the same storyline as it is referred to.

How exactly is there a clear assymetry? There's literally nothing contradicting the scan.

Maybe because of the same reason we are disscusing in the first place? There would not be any need for the Spectre to bring demons at his sides in the first issue if its powers were self-sufficient as thoses secondary sources assert. That's indeed a "contradiction" per say.

Again, he doesn't need to destroy the entire thing with his own power. As long as he can damage Heaven, he scales. Whether he has an army is irrelevant.

You are the only one assuming that anybody said the Spectre must "destroy" to be scale to any cosmological sctructure.

If the Big Bang is infinite/Tier 2 or above, then Supes' feat can absolutely be tired depending on where the Big Bang scales. Naturally though, it would be an Outlier.

That's an another point that went over your head as well, as Superman being involved in the reproduction of the "Big Bang" would not make his heat-vision equal to it. As shown in the scan I've provided previously, there are more than 2 characters who were also involved in the reproduction of the "Big Bang", and to say which characters contributed the most between all of them would rely on a baseless assumption with such disperancy.
In other words, to put it simply, just because their individual input power helped to reproduce the "Big Bang" does not mean that they individually have the output power of the "Big Bang". How they would scale up would be to a much smaller part of the whole, since it is a shared feat.
Therefore, Superman's heat vision can be scaled to the "Big Bang", yes, but a fraction of it, i.e, any tiering system below DC's Big Bang itself.

How does that make the cases different though? In TDK's case, he and Perpetua together were destroying Bleed. Whether they were doing it in a confrontation or as a team doesn't make any difference.

Needless to say there is an obvious difference supported by the number of characters involved. In TDK's case, a fair assumption can be made as there are only him and Perpetua. On the other hands, in the Spectre's case, the counteless demons at his sides does not help at all to come up with any assumption and would resort to cherry-picking in order to come up with the assmuption that the Spectre can "deal great damage to Heaven", for exemple. Hence, like I've alreadly mentioned, both the Spectre and Superman's cases are unsuable as evidence to scale them to any tier. That's common sense.

Even if Spectre had an army, it wouldn't matter as Spectre would be doing the damage along with his army

Like I've articulated on Superman's case, you are not putting forward that the Spectre has the output power to be scaled to Heaven itself, only an unquantifiable part of it.

The same effect is produced. So not a false analogy.

If only it was the case to start with.

 

[Transcending]

Compile them in a next point without adding anything into it, and let the scan speak for itself.

1
2
3
4
5

They are based/related to the storyline, not taken from it. Hence the use of "secondary sources" to described them.
Moreover, their validity has not been questioned, but only the fact that they do not reflect the performance of the Spectre in the same storyline as it is referred to.

Even if they do not reflect the performance of Spectre from the storyline(which I don't understand how), they don't contradict it, meaning they are still valid.

Maybe because of the same reason we are disscusing in the first place? There would not be any need for the Spectre to bring demons at his sides in the first issue if its powers were self-sufficient as thoses secondary sources assert. That's indeed a "contradiction" per say.

Firstly, Spectre himself never said he was bringing an army to Heaven. Secondly, as I stated before, the army could be just for fighting the residents of Hell, instead of destroying Heaven itself.

And Spectre scales above his army anyhow.

You are the only one assuming that anybody said the Spectre must "destroy" to be scale to any cosmological sctructure.

What? Our entire argument has been if Spectre can significantly affect or destroy Heaven, if you have no disagreement towards that why are you arguing?

That's an another point that went over your head as well, as Superman being involved in the reproduction of the "Big Bang" would not make his heat-vision equal to it. As shown in the scan I've provided previously, there are more than 2 characters who were also involved in the reproduction of the "Big Bang", and to say which characters contributed the most between all of them would rely on a baseless assumption with such disperancy.

This is a straw man, I never said Superman's heat vision has to be equal to the Big Bang. There are different layers in the same tier. If the Big Bang was Low 2-C for example, irrespective of how much Superman contributed, he would still be Low 2-C since if he wasn't, his heat vision would be infinitely weaker than what's needed, in which case he would be useless and the rest of the people wouldn't have needed his help.

Needless to say there is an obvious difference supported by the number of characters involved. In TDK's case, a fair assumption can be made as there are only him and Perpetua. On the other hands, in the Spectre's case, the counteless demons at his sides does not help at all to come up with any assumption and would resort to cherry-picking in order to come up with the assmuption that the Spectre can "deal great damage to Heaven", for exemple. Hence, like I've alreadly mentioned, both the Spectre and Superman's cases are unsuable as evidence to scale them to any tier. That's common sense.

This would be a fair assumption too. Spectre not only scales above his demons but the gods said they weren't beyond his threat and in his battle against the mortal plane, he was doing most of the damage.

Like I've articulated on Superman's case, you are not putting forward that the Spectre has the output power to be scaled to Heaven itself, only an unquantifiable part of it.

Implying Spectre wouldn't scale to Heaven's tier is saying he's infinitely weaker than it, in which case he would be able to do no damage to it. Plus I have provided evidence that he can destroy Heaven.

 

[Kuuzo7]

1
2
3
4
5

3/5, of which only 1/3 of the first 3 scans assert that the Spectre has the power to destroy Heaven alone. The remaining two (4 and 5), taken from the storyline as I've asked, only further supports the intention of the Spectre to destroy Heaven and the Presence's Creation. I've asked to provide the evidence of your claim that the Spectre can "deal great damage to Heaven". He had the intention to destroy Heaven, great, now, show the evidence supporting he had the neceassary capacity from this specific storyline to do so.

Even if they do not reflect the performance of Spectre from the storyline(which I don't understand how)

I've already explaned how it does in the post below.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-spectre-low-1-c-ap-proposal.139582/post-4968167

You can as well read the storyline and see clearly the Spectre was , again, not alone to achieve its goal.

Firstly, Spectre himself never said he was bringing an army to Heaven.

Not the argument I'd use if I was your in own place, but It's not for nothing that I suggest you to read the comics, as the Spectre had the intention also to bring his army way up to Heaven.

You took my army away. You've halted my vengeance!

Reminder that the vengeance the Spectre speaks of has already been made clear in the first issue, which was about agaisnt Heaven.

As I have said many times now, if the Spectre could have destroyed Heaven on his own, he would have ignored the idea of taking demons with him. So it clearly seems that those demons were relevant means to achive the Spectre's goal.

Secondly, as I stated before, the army could be just for fighting the residents of Hell, instead of destroying Heaven itself.

Besides the fact that this poor assumption makes no sense, it is also contradicted by the comics, first of all, because the Spectre ordered twice the demons to follow him as he was on his way up through each of the planes of existence.

Damned souls, demons, devils. It's our time! Follow the fire. Follow me!

Onwards, soldiers!

And based on the evidence I've brought in the begining of this post in which the Spectre said:

You took my army away. You've halted my vengeance!

And Spectre scales above his army anyhow.

And how it's even relevant to the discussion?

What? Our entire argument has been if Spectre can significantly affect or destroy Heaven, if you have no disagreement towards that why are you arguing?

Read again: You said one character does not have to necessarly destroy a cosmological strcuture to be scaled to it, which I did not argue in the first place.

What I'm articulating is very clear, but let me put it in simple terms for you, once again: There is no evidence based on the storyline that the Spectre had the power to destroy Heaven alone.

This is a straw man, I never said Superman's heat vision has to be equal to the Big Bang.

And, likewise, I never said you said that "Superman's heat vision has to be equal to the Big Bang". It comes from the implication in your following claim:

I mean even if he has an army, it would still mean he himself can deal great damage, which should be enough to scale.

"Enough to scale" is unclear, as in "one character would still scale to what he is compared to" or "scale to what he is compared to, but on a lower level". In any case, there is no instance of a strawman from my side.

There are different layers in the same tier.

Old news and, once again, was not argued to begin with.

irrespective of how much Superman contributed

I just needed to read this passage to understand with whom I am dealing with.

Assuming that Captain Atom was the largest contributor in terms of energy input, Superman's energy input in reproducing the "Big Bang" could have been the smallest, say at the galactic level, and they would still have been able to reproduce the "Big Bang" by adding Ray and Donna Troy's energy input into the equation. Their combined input would still have reached the threshold required to reproduce the Big Bang. It is a matter of ratio in terms of contribution between the 4. So, no, Superman's Heat-Vision contribution in the reproduction of the Big Bang would not put him at the "Low 2-C", but at any tier/level below the global input. Hence, once again, it's an unusable and unquantifiable evidence.

This would be a fair assumption too.

This could have been the case if there had not been such a disparity in the contribution of all the characters involved in achieving the destruction of Heaven.

Spectre not only scales above his demons but the gods said they weren't beyond his threat

And I ask you again: how this is even relevant?

and in his battle against the mortal plane, he was doing most of the damage.

It is clear that you must actually read the comics because the Spectre was in the background, letting his army do the job, until the end of the 3rd issue.

Implying Spectre wouldn't scale to Heaven's tier is saying he's infinitely weaker than it, in which case he would be able to do no damage to it.

This is, again, another misunderstanding because you are addressing a different topic.

I argue according to what happened in the storyline in which the Spectre intended to destroy Heaven. The whole point is whether the Spectre, during that specific storyline, could have destroyed Heaven with its own power or not. The Spectre being able to "damage" was something argued after as you keep making claims here and there, but the "destroy" part is actually what matters since this was the goal of the Spectre.

Plus I have provided evidence that he can destroy Heaven.

I'm still waiting.

 

[Antvasima]

A negative stereotype the wiki has is to lower the standards of what needed to scale to the complete destruction of a structure the higher its tier; most would disagree that trying to conquer or screw up the universe with an army is not 3-A or Low 2-C, but on a tier 1 structure it's just not the same for whatever reason, and a greater amount of users would not take it the same. Not in a "and they have a point" kind of way. This may be the case here.

I'm sort of with this point. I don't see valid reasons to scale Spectre to Low 1-C going by everything I've seen from the counter arguments.

It seems like the reasoning here has been rejected then, but wouldn't The Spectre still scale to Low 1-C simply due to being stronger than Neron?

 

[Deagonx]

It seems like the reasoning here has been rejected then, but wouldn't The Spectre still scale to Low 1-C simply due to being stronger than Neron?

According to Transcending:

They didn't defeat Neron, if I remember correctly. Neron tricked him, and pretended to be frozen, and he was manipulating events from the start.

 

[Antvasima]

So what do we currently need to do here?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Nothing

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is it fine if I close this thread then?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Yup

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so. Thank you to everybody who helped out here.