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DC Comics - Remove "possibly" for the Darkest Knight

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Transcending said:
I think there's some deeper reasonings for not scaling her because even before this thread, she was only stated to be Low 1-C and the "possibly 1-A" wasn't there
Click to expand...
Yes I agree her Diminished State key should be fixed. personally i think
At least Low Complex Multiverse level, Possibly Outerverse level (Perpetua was said to be the only one who could fight against. "The Darkest Knight" at that time, even though she was defeated him.)
Click to expand...

Transcending said:
This 1-A is temporary,
Click to expand...
Sad 🥲
 
Last edited:
Yeah I think we can all agree TDK should be 1-A(Deagon agreed too). We just need to figure out Perpetua.
 
VeryGoofyToddler said:
She should be a minimum of at-least High 1-C
Click to expand...
High 1-C from what, because her awakening caused the fifth dimension dying die, right?
O4uF5BKPuF8vouadVsYdHrCjIXRFi5ifVxvnr8ioq6qX1BTIbZ3_oTNr70QXGz6N9EQI6SDEVCZ2UQeR_xNdgdiFnbDmwALPmZZOB3CGZbzqlDkAqRs42faQTFuDjW2dMOI-dXYUDg=s0
 
Recap_ said:
Conclude this thread should do with key "Diminished State" of Perpetua, continue talk here or create another thread?
Click to expand...
I think we can continue talking here. We just need to make Perpetua "At least Low 1-C, possibly 1-A" right?
 
Transcending said:
All scans from Death Metal #7

So this is what is currently stated in The Darkest Knight's profile:

Let's see the statements for TDK>Hands and then I will explain why TDK didn't contradict himself.

​

Darkest Knight>Hands​


There are four main statements for this.

Scan 1. This scan is not as blatant as the other scans but it does give the implication that TDK is superior to The Hands. This scan is also the most popular one used by fans to claim TDK>

Scan 2. This scan is very blatant. When Wonder Woman is about to defeat TDK by pushing him into the Death Sun, he explicitly says that he can kill The Hands.

Scan 3. This scan is by far the best evidence, as The Hands themselves directly confirm their inferiority to TDK. They quite literally mention how WW saved them from him. This makes sense, considering TDK was consistently portrayed in the storyline to be a threat to the entire Multiverse, all creation and existence.

Scan 4. This is the controversial scan, TDK explicitly states again that he could kill The Hands but due to some misinterpretation of the text, some have been led to believe he contradicted himself on that statement. I will address this here.

The Darkest Knight did not contradict himself​


The controversy comes from the third speech bubble of the scan. I will state the entire quote here:

The keyword there is "will". What does will mean? According to google: expressing the future tense.

He's not saying that the Hands are presently stronger than him, he's saying that they will get stronger than him in the future if WW fights him. You may think I am playing with semantics, but I am not, because when you look at the larger context, it makes perfect sense.

Let's take a look at what's happening in the scan. TDK tells WW that she has only two choices.

1: In the first choice, she would fight him pointlessly until the Hands get more powerful than them and destroy the Universe.

2: In the second choice, she would not fight him but would rather give up and surrender. In this case, TDK would go kill The Hands and then give WW and her friends a paradise.

What he's saying basically, is not that The Hands are stronger than him. If that was the case, the second choice would make no sense. What he's saying is that, if WW fights him, they would both get weakened and this in turn would make the Hands superior to them. The Hands are, not in their base, superior, but they are, when TDK and WW are not at their prime. This is especially strengthened by the fact that TDK was powered up by Crisis Energy while WW was powered up by Anti-Crisis Energy. Neither of those energies are unlimited, if used too much, they can end. They are limited power sources that needs to be recharged. Granted, both TDK and WW did have strong supplies, but just a point to note.

Now assume my interpretation is the truth. There wouldn't be any contradiction(which there shouldn't be for nigh-omniscient characters anyway). TDK is merely saying that he's more powerful in his base form, but weaker in his lesser forms. The Hands themselves confirm this, making it pretty much legit.

Something irrelevant to the rest of my post​

Not really relevant to the rest of my post, and not something I care about nearly as much, but I asked in the Q&A forum if Perpetua and TDK gets plot manip for ripping apart stories and the answer was a yes

The Hands can also destroy stories, so maybe Perpetua and co. should get Plot Manip?

Conclusion​


The Darkest Knight doesn't just possibly scale to the Hands, he fully and completely scales to, and above them. He should hence lose his "possibly".

Also, while counterarguments are welcome(I am all for a good discussion), please remember to be civil. Insults take away the fun after all!

EDIT: The CRT was passed and applied but now we have to worry about In-Multiverse Perpetua's ratings. Here's why I think she should get a possibly/likely/solid 1-A too.

1: The power to create the Source Wall(1-A) wasn't enough to beat her when she was weakened(Justice League #33)

2: She could rival The Darkest Knight who is now no longer Low 1-C but a solid 1-A(Death Metal: Rise of the New God)

3: The Anti-Monitor when becoming the Ultra-Monitor said he was beyond anything he was before, which would include his True Form(1-A). A weakened Perpetua not only matched the Ultra-Monitor but he also admitted his power alone wasn't enough to beat her(still weakened)(Justice League #33)
Click to expand...
Seems legit
 
Transcending said:
the Plot Manip would stay though.
Click to expand...
I would disagree with plot manipulation. I agree with the rest of the thread, but not this part.

I saw the other thread you linked regarding that, one user said it would be plot manip if it was taken literally, but I don't think that it should be taken literally. I believe that Chronicler was speaking metaphorically. His job is to record the stories of the multiverse in his book, so he speaks in that context, but what TDK and Perpetua are doing isn't literally related to stories or metafictional concepts.
 
He could destroy stories; does it affect the universe if he did? And where are the stories written?
 
Deagonx said:
I would disagree with plot manipulation. I agree with the rest of the thread, but not this part.

I saw the other thread you linked regarding that, one user said it would be plot manip if it was taken literally, but I don't think that it should be taken literally. I believe that Chronicler was speaking metaphorically. His job is to record the stories of the multiverse in his book, so he speaks in that context, but what TDK and Perpetua are doing isn't literally related to stories or metafictional concepts.
Click to expand...
What do you think of The Hands' statement I gave for plot manip?

Dread said:
does it affect the universe if he did?
Click to expand...
I believe so yeah
 
Beyond_transcending said:
The Hands can destroy stories, so maybe Perpetua should be plot manipulation.
Click to expand...
And how are stories written? And by whom? And what do you mean by destroying them? I will give an example of how I understand:
Story = book, destroying story = burning the book, and this affects the reality, right?
 
Deagonx said:
I don't believe it's enough to assume it isn't metaphorical. Nothing about the storyline suggests to me that metafiction is in play here.
Click to expand...
It is just the question of who wrote the book; if it is him and that book presents the reality/universe and destroying it means destroying the universe, then it is indeed plot manipulation.
 
Dread said:
It is just the question of who wrote the book; if it is him and that book presents the reality/universe and destroying it means destroying the universe, then it is indeed plot manipulation.
Click to expand...
The book isn't a physical proxy for the universe as far as I know.
 
I agree
Transcending said:
All scans from Death Metal #7

So this is what is currently stated in The Darkest Knight's profile:

Let's see the statements for TDK>Hands and then I will explain why TDK didn't contradict himself.

​

Darkest Knight>Hands​


There are four main statements for this.

Scan 1. This scan is not as blatant as the other scans but it does give the implication that TDK is superior to The Hands. This scan is also the most popular one used by fans to claim TDK>

Scan 2. This scan is very blatant. When Wonder Woman is about to defeat TDK by pushing him into the Death Sun, he explicitly says that he can kill The Hands.

Scan 3. This scan is by far the best evidence, as The Hands themselves directly confirm their inferiority to TDK. They quite literally mention how WW saved them from him. This makes sense, considering TDK was consistently portrayed in the storyline to be a threat to the entire Multiverse, all creation and existence.

Scan 4. This is the controversial scan, TDK explicitly states again that he could kill The Hands but due to some misinterpretation of the text, some have been led to believe he contradicted himself on that statement. I will address this here.

The Darkest Knight did not contradict himself​


The controversy comes from the third speech bubble of the scan. I will state the entire quote here:

The keyword there is "will". What does will mean? According to google: expressing the future tense.

He's not saying that the Hands are presently stronger than him, he's saying that they will get stronger than him in the future if WW fights him. You may think I am playing with semantics, but I am not, because when you look at the larger context, it makes perfect sense.

Let's take a look at what's happening in the scan. TDK tells WW that she has only two choices.

1: In the first choice, she would fight him pointlessly until the Hands get more powerful than them and destroy the Universe.

2: In the second choice, she would not fight him but would rather give up and surrender. In this case, TDK would go kill The Hands and then give WW and her friends a paradise.

What he's saying basically, is not that The Hands are stronger than him. If that was the case, the second choice would make no sense. What he's saying is that, if WW fights him, they would both get weakened and this in turn would make the Hands superior to them. The Hands are, not in their base, superior, but they are, when TDK and WW are not at their prime. This is especially strengthened by the fact that TDK was powered up by Crisis Energy while WW was powered up by Anti-Crisis Energy. Neither of those energies are unlimited, if used too much, they can end. They are limited power sources that needs to be recharged. Granted, both TDK and WW did have strong supplies, but just a point to note.

Now assume my interpretation is the truth. There wouldn't be any contradiction(which there shouldn't be for nigh-omniscient characters anyway). TDK is merely saying that he's more powerful in his base form, but weaker in his lesser forms. The Hands themselves confirm this, making it pretty much legit.

Something irrelevant to the rest of my post​

Not really relevant to the rest of my post, and not something I care about nearly as much, but I asked in the Q&A forum if Perpetua and TDK gets plot manip for ripping apart stories and the answer was a yes

The Hands can also destroy stories, so maybe Perpetua and co. should get Plot Manip?

Conclusion​


The Darkest Knight doesn't just possibly scale to the Hands, he fully and completely scales to, and above them. He should hence lose his "possibly".

Also, while counterarguments are welcome(I am all for a good discussion), please remember to be civil. Insults take away the fun after all!

EDIT: The CRT was passed and applied but now we have to worry about In-Multiverse Perpetua's ratings. Here's why I think she should get a possibly/likely/solid 1-A too.

1: The power to create the Source Wall(1-A) wasn't enough to beat her when she was weakened(Justice League #33)

2: She could rival The Darkest Knight who is now no longer Low 1-C but a solid 1-A(Death Metal: Rise of the New God)

3: The Anti-Monitor when becoming the Ultra-Monitor said he was beyond anything he was before, which would include his True Form(1-A). A weakened Perpetua not only matched the Ultra-Monitor but he also admitted his power alone wasn't enough to beat her(still weakened)(Justice League #33)
Click to expand...
 
Transcending said:
EDIT: The CRT was passed and applied but now we have to worry about In-Multiverse Perpetua's ratings. Here's why I think she should get a possibly/likely/solid 1-A too.

1: The power to create the Source Wall(1-A) wasn't enough to beat her when she was weakened(Justice League #33)

2: She could rival The Darkest Knight who is now no longer Low 1-C but a solid 1-A(Death Metal: Rise of the New God)

3: The Anti-Monitor when becoming the Ultra-Monitor said he was beyond anything he was before, which would include his True Form(1-A). A weakened Perpetua not only matched the Ultra-Monitor but he also admitted his power alone wasn't enough to beat her(still weakened)(Justice League #33)
Click to expand...
Looks good in the blink of an eye, but you should correct her key name.
 
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