Transcending
He/Him- 1,998
- 1,525
All scans from Death Metal #7
So this is what is currently stated in The Darkest Knight's profile:
There are four main statements for this.
Scan 1. This scan is not as blatant as the other scans but it does give the implication that TDK is superior to The Hands. This scan is also the most popular one used by fans to claim TDK>
Scan 2. This scan is very blatant. When Wonder Woman is about to defeat TDK by pushing him into the Death Sun, he explicitly says that he can kill The Hands.
Scan 3. This scan is by far the best evidence, as The Hands themselves directly confirm their inferiority to TDK. They quite literally mention how WW saved them from him. This makes sense, considering TDK was consistently portrayed in the storyline to be a threat to the entire Multiverse, all creation and existence.
Scan 4. This is the controversial scan, TDK explicitly states again that he could kill The Hands but due to some misinterpretation of the text, some have been led to believe he contradicted himself on that statement. I will address this here.
The controversy comes from the third speech bubble of the scan. I will state the entire quote here:
He's not saying that the Hands are presently stronger than him, he's saying that they will get stronger than him in the future if WW fights him. You may think I am playing with semantics, but I am not, because when you look at the larger context, it makes perfect sense.
Let's take a look at what's happening in the scan. TDK tells WW that she has only two choices.
1: In the first choice, she would fight him pointlessly until the Hands get more powerful than them and destroy the Universe.
2: In the second choice, she would not fight him but would rather give up and surrender. In this case, TDK would go kill The Hands and then give WW and her friends a paradise.
What he's saying basically, is not that The Hands are stronger than him. If that was the case, the second choice would make no sense. What he's saying is that, if WW fights him, they would both get weakened and this in turn would make the Hands superior to them. The Hands are, not in their base, superior, but they are, when TDK and WW are not at their prime. This is especially strengthened by the fact that TDK was powered up by Crisis Energy while WW was powered up by Anti-Crisis Energy. Neither of those energies are unlimited, if used too much, they can end. They are limited power sources that needs to be recharged. Granted, both TDK and WW did have strong supplies, but just a point to note.
Now assume my interpretation is the truth. There wouldn't be any contradiction(which there shouldn't be for nigh-omniscient characters anyway). TDK is merely saying that he's more powerful in his base form, but weaker in his lesser forms. The Hands themselves confirm this, making it pretty much legit.
The Hands can also destroy stories, so maybe Perpetua and co. should get Plot Manip?
The Darkest Knight doesn't just possibly scale to the Hands, he fully and completely scales to, and above them. He should hence lose his "possibly".
Also, while counterarguments are welcome(I am all for a good discussion), please remember to be civil. Insults take away the fun after all!
EDIT: The CRT was passed and applied but now we have to worry about In-Multiverse Perpetua's ratings. Here's why I think she should get a possibly/likely/solid 1-A too.
1: The power to create the Source Wall(1-A) wasn't enough to beat her when she was weakened(Justice League #33)
2: She could rival The Darkest Knight who is now no longer Low 1-C but a solid 1-A(Death Metal: Rise of the New God)
3: The Anti-Monitor when becoming the Ultra-Monitor said he was beyond anything he was before, which would include his True Form(1-A). A weakened Perpetua not only matched the Ultra-Monitor but he also admitted his power alone wasn't enough to beat her(still weakened)(Justice League #33)
So this is what is currently stated in The Darkest Knight's profile:
Let's see the statements for TDK>Hands and then I will explain why TDK didn't contradict himself.
Darkest Knight>Hands
There are four main statements for this.
Scan 1. This scan is not as blatant as the other scans but it does give the implication that TDK is superior to The Hands. This scan is also the most popular one used by fans to claim TDK>
Scan 2. This scan is very blatant. When Wonder Woman is about to defeat TDK by pushing him into the Death Sun, he explicitly says that he can kill The Hands.
Scan 3. This scan is by far the best evidence, as The Hands themselves directly confirm their inferiority to TDK. They quite literally mention how WW saved them from him. This makes sense, considering TDK was consistently portrayed in the storyline to be a threat to the entire Multiverse, all creation and existence.
Scan 4. This is the controversial scan, TDK explicitly states again that he could kill The Hands but due to some misinterpretation of the text, some have been led to believe he contradicted himself on that statement. I will address this here.
The Darkest Knight did not contradict himself
The controversy comes from the third speech bubble of the scan. I will state the entire quote here:
The keyword there is "will". What does will mean? According to google: expressing the future tense.
He's not saying that the Hands are presently stronger than him, he's saying that they will get stronger than him in the future if WW fights him. You may think I am playing with semantics, but I am not, because when you look at the larger context, it makes perfect sense.
Let's take a look at what's happening in the scan. TDK tells WW that she has only two choices.
1: In the first choice, she would fight him pointlessly until the Hands get more powerful than them and destroy the Universe.
2: In the second choice, she would not fight him but would rather give up and surrender. In this case, TDK would go kill The Hands and then give WW and her friends a paradise.
What he's saying basically, is not that The Hands are stronger than him. If that was the case, the second choice would make no sense. What he's saying is that, if WW fights him, they would both get weakened and this in turn would make the Hands superior to them. The Hands are, not in their base, superior, but they are, when TDK and WW are not at their prime. This is especially strengthened by the fact that TDK was powered up by Crisis Energy while WW was powered up by Anti-Crisis Energy. Neither of those energies are unlimited, if used too much, they can end. They are limited power sources that needs to be recharged. Granted, both TDK and WW did have strong supplies, but just a point to note.
Now assume my interpretation is the truth. There wouldn't be any contradiction(which there shouldn't be for nigh-omniscient characters anyway). TDK is merely saying that he's more powerful in his base form, but weaker in his lesser forms. The Hands themselves confirm this, making it pretty much legit.
Something irrelevant to the rest of my post
Not really relevant to the rest of my post, and not something I care about nearly as much, but I asked in the Q&A forum if Perpetua and TDK gets plot manip for ripping apart stories and the answer was a yesThe Hands can also destroy stories, so maybe Perpetua and co. should get Plot Manip?
Conclusion
The Darkest Knight doesn't just possibly scale to the Hands, he fully and completely scales to, and above them. He should hence lose his "possibly".
Also, while counterarguments are welcome(I am all for a good discussion), please remember to be civil. Insults take away the fun after all!
EDIT: The CRT was passed and applied but now we have to worry about In-Multiverse Perpetua's ratings. Here's why I think she should get a possibly/likely/solid 1-A too.
1: The power to create the Source Wall(1-A) wasn't enough to beat her when she was weakened(Justice League #33)
2: She could rival The Darkest Knight who is now no longer Low 1-C but a solid 1-A(Death Metal: Rise of the New God)
3: The Anti-Monitor when becoming the Ultra-Monitor said he was beyond anything he was before, which would include his True Form(1-A). A weakened Perpetua not only matched the Ultra-Monitor but he also admitted his power alone wasn't enough to beat her(still weakened)(Justice League #33)
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