DBZ Tiering

[The_real_cal_howard]

You literally have to be FTL to blitz lightspeed characters. If you are the least bit faster than light, then by definition you are FTL. This is not the same because being just being stronger doesn't constitute a tier jump.

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

We upgraded Toriko to FTL for people blitzing lightspeed characters, this is the same thing just with attack.

Nah man, we don't upgrade tiers based on powerscaling. If you beat a 7C, you're also 7C but not 7B. This is a very old rule of the wiki (not sure if it's written, but you can ask Ant about it)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Light Speed is a fixed value, not a general tier of speed.

If you are faster than a lightspeed character you are by definition FTL.

 

[SomebodyData]

^

 

[Antvasima]

There are no specific rules against this type of power-scaling. We simply tend to avoid it unless it is the least bad option.

Given that all we had to go by was a 5-A calculation for Frieza's first form, and the confirmed (likely barely) 4-B statement for Super Perfect Cell, we had to try to estimate roughly where the different characters would fit in-between, as the alternative would be that everybody until Cell and Gohan would end up at 5-A, despite massive power differences.

I am not at all comfortable with starting to mess with the Dragon Ball statistics again, given all of the enormous trouble that we have had with them previously. Lord Kavpeny seems to have quit from the wiki, so he is not going to help us to scale them again.

I strongly oppose changing them, and am fine with keeping them in the current format.

It could, however, be argued that we should use some more "Possibly" or "Likely" before the statistics.

 

[Antvasima]

I am also way too busy to spend hours arguing about this, however.

 

[SomebodyData]

Don't worry about that Antvasima, if any more questions come, I'm pretty Ryukama, the others, and I will try my best to answer them in this thread.

 

[LordAizenSama]

I also think it's fine to just leave them as they are. So does this thread have any purpose still?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe we should agree about a worded rule, so the topic does not appear again?

 

[Lina_Shields]

I would like to make a comment on this thread before it gets closed. There will be a post explaining my stance on this. It will show up as an edit of my post.

Edit: Here.

After reading the posts, and reading this thread , I think that the current tiering for Frieza to Super Perfect Cell should stay where it is. However, I just want to add in something.

I believe this is the reason for Super Perfect Cell's Solar System level rating (Cell has said he could do this; Fan has created a massive blog explaining this), just in case if anyone is interested.

Now that that's out of the way...

I would like to mention that when Frieza blew up Planet Vegeta with his Death Ball, he likely did this feat while holding back. He did not even take his armor off when he did this feat.

• Stating again that Frieza's first form can casually dish out attacks at the higher end of Dwarf Star level, it is likely that Frieza is stronger compared to the death ball he blew up Planet Vegeta with. I would like to propose adding "At least" to 1st Form Frieza's tiering.
• Vegeta during his fight shown here is likely at this level, considering that he took on armored Frieza for a time, although Freiza was holding back. I think this fight happened the same way in the manga as well.
• It is after Frieza takes his armor off that Frieza starts to get serious.

Frieza's second form

• Vegeta was absolutely scared of Freiza's second form, which is something.
• This is significant because considering that this was the same Vegeta who matched Freiza's first form for a period of time, this means that there is a significantly higher gap between Frieza's second form compared to his first form.
• Small Star level starts at ~3 Tenatons, which is only twice as strong compared to first form Freiza's death ball. When you consider that the death ball feat was done while Freiza was holding back, this would make the power gap between 1st and 2nd form Frieza that much greater.

I think that Small Star level is fine for his tiering here.

Frieza's third form

• Frieza's powers increase further from his transformation.
• In this form, he was absolutely toying with Piccolo without his armor, who is likely stronger than Frieza's 2nd form at this point.
• This would mean that the gap between Frieza's 3rd form is much stronger than Frieza's 2nd form.

Again, Small Star level is fine here.

Frieza's Final Form
25%

• At this point, Frieza's powers grow even further compared to his 3rd form. The gap between Frieza's 4th form and 3rd form should be comparable to his other transformations, assuming that Frieza's powers increase the same amount after each transformation.
• He is even with Kaioken x10 Goku in this form, who is at 1/2 the power of Kaioken x20 Goku.

Small Star level is fine here, although he is closer in the higher end of it. Frieza grew stronger, but not enough for an entire tier shift. Also, Kaioken x10 Goku would be around this level as well since he matched Freiza.

50%

• Easily dominated Kaioken x10 Goku.
• He matched evenly with Kaioken x20 Goku in this form.
• Gets completely outclassed by Goku when he turns SSJ. This means that SSJ Goku > Kaioken x20 Goku. Considering how SSJ Goku literally ragdolled 50% Frieza compared to Kaioken x20 in the same way that 50% Frieza dominated Kaioken x10 Goku, I think that the SSJ multiplier makes sense.
• Thus, I am okay with the 50x AP increase for Super Saiyan form.

100%

• Frieza is slightly stronger SSJ Goku during the initial exchange, although SSJ Goku manages to keep up with him and eventually defeat him.
• Frieza at this form would likely scale to SSJ Goku, who is about 2.5x stronger compared to Kaioken x20 Goku/50% Frieza.

Results

• 100% Frieza is about 2.5x stronger than Kaioken x20 Goku, who in turn, is about twice as strong as Final Form Frieza.
• This means that 100% Frieza is about 5 times stronger compared to Final Form Frieza.
• Each of Frieza's transformation gives major boosts to his power. Considering that just one transformation makes Frieza strong enough to make Vegeta go from excitement to utter despair, it is likely that these transformations give massive increases to Frieza's powers instead of minor ones.
• Frieza wasn't even trying when he made the death ball that blew up Planet Vegeta.
• Frieza's 1st form should have the "At least" tag added onto his AP, as he did the Planet Vegeta feat casually.

I think what Ant said in regards to this thread makes sense. The tiering for the Frieza all the way to Super Perfect Cell should stay as it is.

 

[Addarash]

From iirc this tier is quite reasonable. According to this scan from Frieza surviving this with half a body.

 

[Smoak7]

From iirc this tier is quite reasonable. According to this scan from Frieza surviving this with half a body.

not just half a body,but also no Ki and unconscious

 

[Antoniofer]

Isn't the SSJ Goku = 2.5xKKx20 Goku coming from PL scaling? In that case, that would make 100% Frieza = 2xKKx20 Goku, and again, we are with the PL direct scaling...

 

[SunWukong1986]

Actually, Lina Shields, It's his Supernova attack that destroyed Planet Vegeta, not the Death Ball.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Actually, Lina Shields, It's his Supernova attack that destroyed Planet Vegeta, not the Death Ball.

Aren't those basically the same?

 

[Antoniofer]

Supernova is bigger, is yellow/orange and possibly more destructive; the Death Ball is black/purple iirc, and possesses some lightning around it, but maybe I'm confusing the last one with the Revenge Ball or something

 

[RadicalMrR]

I think the Death Ball is his full powered attack.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

All of the them penetrate the planet to the core.


The difference is that one is really fast, the other takes "5 minutes"

 

[SunWukong1986]

Unless you saw the comparison between the Supernova and the Death Ball, the Death Ball is like a mixture of black and purple with sparks surrounding it while the Supernova resembles to the star/sun that's all fiery. Or shall I put in the images? Maybe I shall.

 

[Vandevin]

just ask, but why vegetto only 4B while Gogeta 4A?. .

 

[AllanSaiyan]

just ask, but why vegetto only 4B while Gogeta 4A?. .

Vegetto is scaled from canon while Gogeta isn't.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Gogeta is scale from the Anime, which have Kid Buu destroying a Galaxy gradually, which is a 4-A feat


Meanwhile Vegeto is scale from the manga, and even been much MUCH stronger than Cell, he wouldn't reach even SS+

 

[Vandevin]

i see. . thanks

 

[Smoak7]

i see. . thanks

Don't bother mate,everyone who knows about DBZ knows Vegetto > Gogeta

 

[Addarash]

I didn't even see that. So now normal fusion > Potara Fusion? OK.

 

[Sigma_the_Terminator_of_Purple_Monsters]

Hey....SSJ goku ragdolled 70% frieza...not 50%

 

[Antoniofer]

KKx20 Goku fought 50% Frieza, both had a PL of 60M, then Goku SSJ fought Frieza >=50% and Goku swept the floor with Frieza for a while until frieza use his 100%, with Goku's 150M and frieza 120M

 

[SomebodyData]

Don't use power levels guys....

 

[Antvasima]

I will close this thread, since it seems to have concluded its original purpose.