DBH and DBX speed

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There are no Infinite Speed feats, much less immeasurable. You are just assuming that moving in a void = One or the later.

It doesn't. Not in this case.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also asked Azzy to comment here since I trust his judgment above all others.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Prom isn't completely against the feats, Mat

 

[Bluetrekking]

Why not? They have upwards of 7+ void feats. Characters like Solaris and Time Eater have singular void feats but yet have infinite speed. Demigra was in the CoT for 75 million years. Just because he could not get out does not mean it is any less of a feat. Mira has a statement that he normally exists outside of time as well.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

+ existing beyond the flow of time +existing physically beyond time and space

 

[The_Everlasting]

Azathoth has debunked the "existing beyond the flow of time" before. Multiple times, in fact.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Quality > Quantity. The fact that there are "7 void feats" is more evidence that these don't mean anything in Dragon Ball.

Solaris and Time Eater are characters which can destroy / devour all space-time, move through time with sheer speed, and the former is omnipresent throught time.

And as ws previously addressed:

They don't exist outside the flow of time or physically beyond time and space. Please don't take statements out of context. This has been rejected before. They simply can time travel.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

How are they out of context? The feats and scans are there. There is nothing suggesting them existing beyond time and space is time travel. Umr and myself have responded to them existing outside the flow of time. Even that doesn't point to time travelling at all. Trunks specially said they do, if they were time travelling it would have been similar to chronoa stating they are going througout different histories; this statement is blatantly different

 

[Bluetrekking]

But in most of the feats it has been emphasized that it is outside of time. The whole theme of Xenoverse is that it deals with time and such. In DBH, Demigra was destroying the multiverse and destroyed space-times. In Xenoverse, A Goku that is 3-A is 2-C in Xenoverse and 2-B in Heroes. The games step outside of already established feats in the canon countless times.

 

[Bluetrekking]

In Fusions, KID Goku is 2-C and MFTL+. If that does not step out of established feats I don't know what does. Anyways, You are saying it is outlierish because of DB Super feats. Key word is Super. Why will we scale to Super if the continuity has a plethora of feats and they are being denied because of Super. I am not saying we should not scale from Super but it shouldn't be the first reason we assume a feat is an outlier.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Being outside of time =/= speed, necessarily.

Also, it was debunked already. Once again, you have already been taking things out of context. Yours and UMR's points are deliberatedly out of context and have been debunked time and time again.

DB Fusions has nothing to do with anything and doesn't apply to either game.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I won't say anything .. But I want to see where this goes.

 

[Bluetrekking]

But it does. It is connected to both DBH and Xenoverse.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It isn't. It's a game which is non-canon to both. Just having Xenoverse characters =/= Being canon to either.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

DBF connects to Xenoverse because they explicitly mention Time Patroller Trunks in Mission 6 .Keep on mind that they name the Time Patrol Trunks differently. Heroes is Xeno Trunks, Xenoverse is Time Patrol Trunks. Them stating " Time Patrol " Trunks implies Xenoverse.

 

[Bluetrekking]

Dragon Ball Fusions

https://imgur.com/a/PpK21

Also, in DBH it directly refers to the plot of Xenoverse and in DBH, it refers to Fusions.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Time Patroller Trunks in DBF =/= DBX Time Patrol Trunks.

That's like saying that any game that has Goku is part of the same continuity.

 

[Bluetrekking]

Also, I am pretty sure this was agreed upon already.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

You can't say it's out of context and think it's over and done with. Actually refute the comments. The comments we made are brand new and have not been debunked. They were made in this spfofc thread which no one responded to

 

[Golden_Void]

Being outside of time =/= speed, necessarily.
Also, it was debunked already. Once again, you have already been taking things out of context. Yours and UMR's points are deliberatedly out of context and have been debunked time and time again.

DB Fusions has nothing to do with anything and doesn't apply to either game.

And what did I say that was deliberately* taken out of context?

 

[Bluetrekking]

@Matt then there is Dokkan which connects them even further.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, I am pretty sure this was agreed upon already.

It wasn't. Unless you mean agreed between you and the other guy.

@UMR

The fact that it has been explained time and time again what these statements actually mean, but people still use them to try and get Immeasurable speed Xenoverse. Either out of ignorance or deliberate ignoring of context.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Goku is a different analogy. Goku has been within everything dragon ball related . Time Patrol Trunks ( not Xeno Trunks from Heroes. They are named differently . ) has only been named specifically " Time Patrol " Trunks in Xenoverse. I have seen both games and all their iterations , That in and of itself shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You can't say it's out of context and think it's over and done with. Actually refute the comments. The comments we made are brand new and have not been debunked. They were made in this spfofc thread which no one responded to

They have been debunked and refuted. Sorry if you can't accept it. The "Outside of time" statements have nothing to do with a higher level of existence or speed. It means that they can time travel and move between timelines. That's it.

 

[Golden_Void]

The fact that it has been explained time and time again what these statements actually mean, but people still use them to try and get Immeasurable speed Xenoverse. Either out of ignorance or deliberate ignoring of context.

I still don't know what you're referring to.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"As far as speed goes, Demigra post-Toki Toki absorption should be infinite or immeasurable, as he gained control over all of time and space."

This is not a speed feat.

"Even Mira who absorbs an egg from Toki Toki, which is stated to be able to create an entire new timeline, should have this speed, but on a much lower scale."

Neither is this.

 

[Bluetrekking]

That's like saying that any game that has Goku is part of the same continuity.

Exactly, they are not part of the same continuity. Therefore, using Super feats as a way to debunk Xenoverse feats does not work.

 

[Golden_Void]

That was already discussed though and they began exploring other options.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You literally debunked yourself. You are using Fusion feats for Xenoverse.

Also, the Super events still happen in Xenoverse mostly.

 

[Bluetrekking]

But the difference is that Fusions has direct mention to both DBH and Xenoverse.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

But the difference is that Fusions has direct mention to both DBH and Xenoverse.

They just mention TP Trunks. That's just a reference. And definitely not proof of DBH.

 

[Bluetrekking]

But DBH has direct reference to Xenoverse. One might even call it a follow up.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

^ WHERE .

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Xenoverse is canon to DBH.

DBH isn't canon to Xenoverse.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Matthew seems to make sense, but it is important that everybody make an effort to not let this thread go bad by staying polite to each other.

 

[Bluetrekking]

The fact that Demigra is dead at the beginning of Heroes. The DB wiki considers it after Xenoverse as well. Then there is the fact that it is stated that Demigra was sealed before his death.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Time Patrol Trunks in Heroes has no idea who Demigra is, even though they very well know each other in Xenoverse.

 

[Kepekley23]

Ever's comment pretty much soloed this.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

but it is important that everybody make an effort to not let this thread go bad by staying polite to each other.

I agree with Antvasima on this part. Lets not make this thread go haywire specially on New Year's Eve.

 

[DMUA]

In fact, I'm pretty sure some manga related to Heroes goes into detail about how Trunks joined the time patrol. And the time breaker logo appears on the Supervillans and Bardock.