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In fact he was sealed in there
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DBH and DBX speed
- Thread starter Zenkaibattery1
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- #42
Bump
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- #43
Well. I've given proof for the crack of time. There is also the fact they physically existed beyond space and time. This isn't stuff out of no where if it is shown in scans and translated. These need to be evaluated as they are directly shown and stated. Them transcending time is not just referring to abilti3is or the purpose of a show. If they transcended time they transcended time. Shown and stated multiple time through multiple media's
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I'm still on the fence on the immeasurable stuff, which tbh, is not bad, as normally it would be a straight up no.
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My only concern is, how seriously do we take transcending time here, and are we going to treat DBH differently than DBS? Jiren is explicitly stated and shown to transcend time twice and it doesn't play into his speed or AP at all except making Low 2-C more concrete.
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- #46
Jiren was called an outlier for immeasurable speed iirc
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Besides that, do you agree with the thread. The only "debunks" have been that it's an outlier, hyperbole or out of context which I've replied too
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I think we should have a point where if some feat such as transcending time is done over and over, it just stops being hyperbole/outlier and turns into an actual feat because almost every dragon ball feat brought up has had the phrase "Outlier" or "Hyperbole" thrown at it, but with Dragon Ball Heroes (Like this thread outlines), the feat is reconfirmed several times.
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I love how the Heroes / Toei continuity of Dragon Ball apparently has no outliers.
Fighting within Instant Transmission is stupid and applying that to make everyone Infinite Speed is contradicted by literally every scene after that in all of Dragon Ball.
They transcend time because they can time travel. That's it.
A lot is hyperbole and wanky assumptions.
Oh, and the Future Warrior isn't Immeasurable or beyond time as he is paradoxed by Towa, and by proxy no one is either.
Fighting within Instant Transmission is stupid and applying that to make everyone Infinite Speed is contradicted by literally every scene after that in all of Dragon Ball.
They transcend time because they can time travel. That's it.
A lot is hyperbole and wanky assumptions.
Oh, and the Future Warrior isn't Immeasurable or beyond time as he is paradoxed by Towa, and by proxy no one is either.
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Also: Post the actual scans and don't link to Google+ of all places.
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Instant Transmission leads to a midpoint "teleportation dimension" in some Dragon Ball continuities.
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Matt, the instant transmission fighting was done NOT in the official Dragon Ball Media. Every other example from other media sources wouldn't affect this feat (Except DBH where all the continuities are connected). Just because it's stupid doesn't make it untrue. They fought while in instantaneous speed, that much at least is clear and is not contradicting anything. I could easily say "They didn't do it again because PIS" or something like that.
Matt, No offense, but really. DBH is like the poster child of "Take me seriously" in terms of their feats which gets absolutely ridiculous later on, This isn't Cell's "Hyperbole" statement of where he can blow up a solar system.
On that note, how do we prove something is hyperbole? With the Cell example, he didn't perform the feat but everyone still took him seriously. The reactions of the characters or something?
Matt, No offense, but really. DBH is like the poster child of "Take me seriously" in terms of their feats which gets absolutely ridiculous later on, This isn't Cell's "Hyperbole" statement of where he can blow up a solar system.
On that note, how do we prove something is hyperbole? With the Cell example, he didn't perform the feat but everyone still took him seriously. The reactions of the characters or something?
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Dude. The Instant Transmission fighting makes no sense regardless of the context, and it also happens in the second Cooler movie. It is nonsense. You can't just accept out of favouritism.
Also, ever heard of burden of proof? It is YOUR job to prove that it is not a hyperbole by showing evidence that corroborates with the statements.
Also, ever heard of burden of proof? It is YOUR job to prove that it is not a hyperbole by showing evidence that corroborates with the statements.
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"Hit's attacks are beyond time"
Because he stops and skips time.
"Supreme Kai of time, Vegeta and trunks can move in the Crack of Time."
Being in such a space isn't grounds for Infinite or Immeasurable anymore unless you originate there.
Because he stops and skips time.
"Supreme Kai of time, Vegeta and trunks can move in the Crack of Time."
Being in such a space isn't grounds for Infinite or Immeasurable anymore unless you originate there.
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Am I the only one who thinks Buu and Goku fighting in the Instantaneous Movement is badass, and not stupid?
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Well, the thing is, it's not a feat.
Instant Transmission leads to a separate dimension from which you reach your destination in some continuities, as explained in a Daizenshuu.
Instant Transmission leads to a separate dimension from which you reach your destination in some continuities, as explained in a Daizenshuu.
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Bump
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Is anyone gonna mention the existing outside of the flow of time?
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They exist outside the natural flow of time. Not another universe or timeline. DMUA, there is nothing pointing at them just existing in another universe. They literally exist beyond the flow of time. There is still Demigra inhabiting the crack of time for 75 million years which still counts as a feat There is them literally existing beyond time and space in DBH.
the feat and the scan and the translation is given for that
How is them transcending time just time travelling? They've time travelled so many times yet every time they did, that statement wasn't given. All of these need to be evaluated. Don't just go against one or two scans as if it "debunk" everything
the feat and the scan and the translation is given for that
How is them transcending time just time travelling? They've time travelled so many times yet every time they did, that statement wasn't given. All of these need to be evaluated. Don't just go against one or two scans as if it "debunk" everything
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It would have said they were time travelling if that was the case, each time Towa and Mira were time travelling it was stated that they are going throughout history. Bypassing it is complete headcanon. Don't change the point in hand, you said that they are just in another universe when they were clearly were where the FW was and still were stated to exist beyond the flow of time. I don't understand what existing beyond the flow of time has to do with time travelling
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What? How does that have to do with anything?
Trunks is far superior to xenoverse Towa and in Heroes existed physically beyond time and space alongside the supreme Kai of time. He's one of the main protagonists along side the time patrol and consistentally is somewhat comparable to the future warrior. Not stronger. Comparable.
Trunks is far superior to xenoverse Towa and in Heroes existed physically beyond time and space alongside the supreme Kai of time. He's one of the main protagonists along side the time patrol and consistentally is somewhat comparable to the future warrior. Not stronger. Comparable.
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Then post game was confident in his ability to fight the future warrior and base Goku
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Anyway. I am currently on vacation so won't be on for the next 2 days. Hopefully this makes progress
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@Ant, no one really addressed the infinite speed feats that concern to Xenoverse and Heroes. Such as:
Demigra being in the crack of time for 75 million years which is basically inhabiting it.
Towa and Mira always have existed outside the flow of time.
Demigra in DBH was going to destroy the multiverse and move in the timeless void. Before you say "void feats don't count", Dimentio has infinite speed far a void feat not even performed.
Mira and Bardock existed outside outside of time between the dimensions.
The reason I say these feats are valid is beacause everytime one of these feats happen, they always have some sort of statement claiming that that it is outside the flow of time.
Demigra being in the crack of time for 75 million years which is basically inhabiting it.
Towa and Mira always have existed outside the flow of time.
Demigra in DBH was going to destroy the multiverse and move in the timeless void. Before you say "void feats don't count", Dimentio has infinite speed far a void feat not even performed.
Mira and Bardock existed outside outside of time between the dimensions.
The reason I say these feats are valid is beacause everytime one of these feats happen, they always have some sort of statement claiming that that it is outside the flow of time.
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Bump.
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There is still things to discuss. Even the transcending time feats. I've refuted the claims made to "debunk" the thread such as "it's just time travelling" so immeasurable speed is still there and is consistent. And cal also thinks the immeasurable speed feats aren't bad. Like, the feats are shown time and time, and stated time and time again. Some feats here such as existing beyond time and space isn't getting addressed and even that is consistent with feats
Edit: I went through some profiles and some digemon characters have infinite, possibly immeasurable speed for the exact same reasons; as the scans I have brought up. Transcending time, existing beyond time and space etc. Also there's Mira and bardock fighting in a space outside of time. A lot, and I mean a lot of feats from the game franchises happen quite a few time
The characters the feats here apply to should at least get "at least infinite, possibly immeasurable"
Edit: I went through some profiles and some digemon characters have infinite, possibly immeasurable speed for the exact same reasons; as the scans I have brought up. Transcending time, existing beyond time and space etc. Also there's Mira and bardock fighting in a space outside of time. A lot, and I mean a lot of feats from the game franchises happen quite a few time
The characters the feats here apply to should at least get "at least infinite, possibly immeasurable"
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Just throwing in my $.02-
The Crack of Time is an enclosed space separated from the dimension of time
Fighting in the time nest = destruction of the dimension of time (Clearly this means destroying the time vault)
As far as speed goes, Demigra post-Toki Toki absorption should be infinite or immeasurable, as he gained control over all of time and space.
Even Mira who absorbs an egg from Toki Toki, which is stated to be able to create an entire new timeline, should have this speed, but on a much lower scale.
The rest is going to be a trip to discuss, the people who are stated to be beyond/outside of time should scale.
The Crack of Time is an enclosed space separated from the dimension of time
Fighting in the time nest = destruction of the dimension of time (Clearly this means destroying the time vault)
As far as speed goes, Demigra post-Toki Toki absorption should be infinite or immeasurable, as he gained control over all of time and space.
Even Mira who absorbs an egg from Toki Toki, which is stated to be able to create an entire new timeline, should have this speed, but on a much lower scale.
The rest is going to be a trip to discuss, the people who are stated to be beyond/outside of time should scale.
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Well I'm pretty sure Mira also scales to Demigra since XV2 FW => XV1 FW who by Xenoverse 2 should be equal or slightly above Full Power Toki Toki Demigra. And then Final Form Mira>>>XV2 FW since he needed Goku's help to combat him.
And after looking at that video the Crack of Time is pretty blatantly outside of time.
And after looking at that video the Crack of Time is pretty blatantly outside of time.
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Towa is the same as Demigra. Demigra stole her powers in Heroes and was originally the one going to collapse the multiverse. So their stats will be the same. Demigra should also get the hax she has if it isn't already on his profile
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Also. Toki-toki is the embodiment of time. And Demigra absorbed him.
He should have the power to manipulate space and time like:
He should have all the time manipulation of chronoa
Restored the multiverse
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/anW3rUqLzmW
His body in energy form resembles timelines
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/SxUNMhvbphL
Him being used in experiments caused a giant rift in time
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/8okdNiLxqHw
Controls time
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/FSrFdqasKuu
Sets time into motion
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/iaDXNTEA8eY
His eggs create time and timelines
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/M5turTxs4wj
Creates time
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/6Hcf1ikKrag
Towa said she could rule over tine and space with his egg and it gave Mira limitless power.
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/diQUfSxzaq3
Can exist beyond the multiverse and send people through time
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/FqNVfuWKtz1
Demigra controlled all of time and space after absorbing him and was going to use him to create a new multiverse
https://imgur.com/gallery/0cv3o https://imgur.com/gallery/CTC2f
Was affected by history changing
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/8RNfDdun57i
Chronoa uses his feathers to place history in the scroll
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/YdtZdzrBy1w
He should have the power to manipulate space and time like:
He should have all the time manipulation of chronoa
Restored the multiverse
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/anW3rUqLzmW
His body in energy form resembles timelines
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/SxUNMhvbphL
Him being used in experiments caused a giant rift in time
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/8okdNiLxqHw
Controls time
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/FSrFdqasKuu
Sets time into motion
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/iaDXNTEA8eY
His eggs create time and timelines
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/M5turTxs4wj
Creates time
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/6Hcf1ikKrag
Towa said she could rule over tine and space with his egg and it gave Mira limitless power.
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/diQUfSxzaq3
Can exist beyond the multiverse and send people through time
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/FqNVfuWKtz1
Demigra controlled all of time and space after absorbing him and was going to use him to create a new multiverse
https://imgur.com/gallery/0cv3o https://imgur.com/gallery/CTC2f
Was affected by history changing
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/8RNfDdun57i
Chronoa uses his feathers to place history in the scroll
https://plus.google.com/113806516725407052781/posts/YdtZdzrBy1w
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Well the scaling is a bit odd. XV1, Demigra absorbs the entire bird, and gains control over "all of time and space", yet was destroyed by FW (I assume the one with SSJ3 Goku isn't the canon ending).
In XV2, Mira absorbs Towa + an egg with power for a single timeline, and gets destroyed by SSB Goku using dragon fist, and finished off by FW after the egg is removed. It makes no sense that Mira is stronger than Demigra, yet this is what XV shows us.
Yet in the game, you destroy XV1 Future Warrior who was under Towa's mind control, then you get assistance from full power SSB Goku against Super Mira. There is a bit of conflict where is shows FW evaporating Super Mira after Goku extracts the egg from him. So for scaling...
1. Enraged Mira one-shots XV1 FW
2. XV2 FW destroys that Mira, then goes on to destroy Supervillain mode Mira (Mira admits he's stronger, Towa says he's on the defensive as well)
Sidenote: Trunks and the power of the time vault is unable to go to the timeline controlled by Towa, Towa shocked that her attempt to paradox the Time Patrollers didn't work
3. Towa was afraid of Mira's core possibly creating an explosion that could surpass dimensions and destroy the time egg, helped FW fight against Supervillain Mira who survives and absorb her
So SSB Goku > Super Mira >= FW (XV2) > Supervillain Mira > Enraged Mira > Towa > FW (XV1) > Demigra
There's a lot of conflicting info with Goku/Super Mira/ FW 2, as in a time rift mission, you fight against full power SSB Vegeta who states they are equals (and you need to do all the time rift missions to get the missing details of the plot), in which case the scaling should be SSB Goku (Unamped) >= FW > Super Mira
In XV2, Mira absorbs Towa + an egg with power for a single timeline, and gets destroyed by SSB Goku using dragon fist, and finished off by FW after the egg is removed. It makes no sense that Mira is stronger than Demigra, yet this is what XV shows us.
Yet in the game, you destroy XV1 Future Warrior who was under Towa's mind control, then you get assistance from full power SSB Goku against Super Mira. There is a bit of conflict where is shows FW evaporating Super Mira after Goku extracts the egg from him. So for scaling...
1. Enraged Mira one-shots XV1 FW
2. XV2 FW destroys that Mira, then goes on to destroy Supervillain mode Mira (Mira admits he's stronger, Towa says he's on the defensive as well)
Sidenote: Trunks and the power of the time vault is unable to go to the timeline controlled by Towa, Towa shocked that her attempt to paradox the Time Patrollers didn't work
3. Towa was afraid of Mira's core possibly creating an explosion that could surpass dimensions and destroy the time egg, helped FW fight against Supervillain Mira who survives and absorb her
So SSB Goku > Super Mira >= FW (XV2) > Supervillain Mira > Enraged Mira > Towa > FW (XV1) > Demigra
There's a lot of conflicting info with Goku/Super Mira/ FW 2, as in a time rift mission, you fight against full power SSB Vegeta who states they are equals (and you need to do all the time rift missions to get the missing details of the plot), in which case the scaling should be SSB Goku (Unamped) >= FW > Super Mira
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XV1 Future Warrior was already tired and injured from his fight against trunks and the XV2 FW. So he wasn't completely at full power when he took that blast.
And SSJB Goku still needed XV2 Future Warrior's help to weaken and destabilize Mira's power so that he would have an opening to steal the egg from Mira.
And SSJB Goku still needed XV2 Future Warrior's help to weaken and destabilize Mira's power so that he would have an opening to steal the egg from Mira.
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