DB Chou Black Saga Scaling (Possible 3-B Upgrades)

[AKM sama]

This was brought up in the old forum but was closed partially due to CRT lockdown and because the thread ended up being too long. It was supposed to be discussed again later, and now is the time for it so here goes.

1. Pre-training SSB Vegeta was overpowered by SSJ2 Black (after receiving Zenkai), making SSJ2 Black 3-B. (1st scan. This is already on his profile btw)

2. Black goes SSR which is described as being the same as going Blue, but since it's a god doing it, the hair turns pink instead. (2nd scan)

3. Post-training Vegeta was able to hold an edge over SSR Black by using SSB in quick succession. (3rd scan)

Since the boost from SSJ2 to SSB/SSR is the same for both Vegeta and Black, and post-training SSB Vegeta is stronger than SSR Black, logically it should mean that post-training SSJ2 Vegeta is also stronger than post-zenkai SSJ2 Black who is 3-B. This is just normal powerscaling between SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ2 Black.

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If this gets accepted, base form Goku and Vegeta would also have to be 3-B from that point onwards as the gap between base and SSJ2 is much much smaller than the gap between baseline 3-B and how far into 3-B the Saiyans were at that point of time.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with this.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

I concur.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Shouldn’t this make Rosé 3-A because the jump from SSJ3 to SSG is quite literally countless times?

 

[LordTracer]

Seems pretty simple to me. Agree.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I think we should Scale 3-B base BOG Goku as Zamasu suggested.........

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I agree. But what would this mean for their Super Saiyan Blue+ forms?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I think we should Scale 3-B base BOG Goku as Zamasu suggested.........

The scan I used was non canon.

 

[AKM sama]

Shouldn’t this make Rosé 3-A because the jump from SSJ3 to SSG is quite literally countless times?

There is no defined multiplier for that, as such it is unquantifiable. And using something ill-defined like that won't do. That could have been a possible argument only if we knew the exact multiplier.

 

[Rikimarox2]

I agree with this aswell :3

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

I'm sure that with all of this, SS Rose should be at least Baseline 3-A.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

There is no defined multiplier for that, as such it is unquantifiable. And using something ill-defined like that won't do. That could have been a possible argument only if we knew the exact multiplier.

Well CSSB is 3-B+ for being much stronger than SSB. Why can’t we rate SSG as 3-B+ and SSB 3-A for being 10 times SSG?

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Well CSSB is 3-B+ for being much stronger than SSB. Why can’t we rate SSG as 3-B+ and SSB 3-A for being 10 times SSG?

True.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

This makes sense

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

One question?, shouldn't Moro's Planetary energy manipulation be 3-A, I mean, if this CRT gets accepted, his technique would Scale Massively above 3-B.
Also, 7-3 Moro was hurt by his own technique in the last chapter.

I think Moro's AP levels should be like this:

3-B| 3-A with Magic| 3-A| 3-A.

3-B (Old Moro).

3-A ( Using the Planet's Energy).

3-A (Full Youth restored).

3-A (7-3 Absorbed).

 

[AKM sama]

Well CSSB is 3-B+ for being much stronger than SSB. Why can’t we rate SSG as 3-B+ and SSB 3-A for being 10 times SSG?

If that is the case, it needs to be handled. Because idk how CSSB is supposed to be 3-B+ without a calc. The boost it gives is unquantifiable and this rating seems to be an assumption. Also, as I said, SSG doesn't have a fixed multiplier so we cannot use it to jump between + signs or tiers. All we can say is that it's higher.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

If you want a calc, one shockwave made Elder Kai think the universe would be destroyed. That’s all I got.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Perfected Super Saiyan Blue is the continuous usage of 100% of Super Saiyan Blue's power. In the Tournament of Power, Vegeta's power in Blue dropped to below 10% after a short period, which means Perfected SSB is, at least, 10x vanilla Blue.

 

[ByAsura]

I wouldn't actually say it's the same boost, despite being the same form.

SSJ2 Black was roughly equal to weakened SSB Vegeta, and got healed (meaning his powers were increased again) before he went SSR. Unless the gap between pre- and training Vegeta is astronomical, then SSR doesn't have the same multiplier as its mortal equivalent.

I think it's also worth noting that post-training SSB Vegeta isn't that much stronger than SSR, and likely his post-Training self. Black could survive his blows with moderate damage, and Zamasu was confident that the two of them would defeat him.

 

[AKM sama]

SSJ2 Black was roughly equal to weakened SSB Vegeta, and got healed (meaning his powers were increased again) before he went SSR.

Yes, that is true. But it does not effect the boost from his SSJ2 to his SSR. Him getting a zenkai does not effect the multiplier, it just makes his base form stronger.

Unless the gap between pre- and training Vegeta is astronomical

That seems to be the case here.

The last point does not matter since they still scale to each other.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm with Lord AKM Sama here.

 

[ByAsura]

That doesn't seem to be the case here, at all.

If the difference was so astronomical, then Rose would have killed Vegeta and Goku before their return.

 

[AKM sama]

And that applies to every other villain in the entire series. Name a villain and I will tell you how they could have killed the heroes but they didn't.

Moreover, Black was going to kill them after he was finished gloating about his powah like every other big bad villain, they just barely managed to escape.

 

[Tyranno223]

It was outrighted stated to be the case in the Hit fight that Blue is weakened to 10% or less when transforming into blue multiple times in succession, which let SSJ God Goku surpass weakened Blue Vegeta. The drain after the initial burst is not stated.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree with the OP as I have made that same argument myself countless times at this point, so I'm glad it's finally getting accepted.

As for the difference between SSB and CSSB, it's 10x due to the form being able to draw out SBB's full power continuously while regular SSB was stated during the U6 tournament arc to be only capable of utilizing 10% of its full power.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The reason Perfected SSB Goku scales to 3-B+ is the fact he could fight on par with God Zamasu, who was able to casually ragdoll and bully Goku and Vegeta in their Blue forms and even perceived them as virtually frozen, which put him leagues above him.

Are their base forms currently ranked as 4-B still? Because if that's the case, their Blue forms after this CRT would likely be 3-B+, seeing as how God alone is enough to boost them into 3-B, which would scale God Zamasu and Perfected SSB to 3-A.

 

[Tyri456]

I agree.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The combined High End to Low End ratios of 4-B, 4-A, and 3-C is 1.42755354e+23x, which is higher than 3-B's 1.04e+23x. Their regular Blue forms could probably be 3-A as a result.

 

[Omegas03]

I want to bring something about 3-A.

So CSSB Goku (Black arc) is rated as 3-B+ which is just being half of the baseline of the next tier.

Sooo, why are CSSB Goku/Vegeta at the ToP, Power Stressed and SSBE still only 3-B+ if they are like, massively stronger than someone who is borderline 3-A?

 

[Padaruyos]

The combined High End to Low End ratios of 4-B, 4-A, and 3-C is 1.42755354e+23x, which is higher than 3-B's 1.04e+23x. Their regular Blue forms could probably be 3-A as a result.

That 1.4275534e+23x value is from baseline 4-B to 3-B though, and I doubt Pre-Training Goku or Vegeta is only baseline 4-B.

 

[AKM sama]

The reason Perfected SSB Goku scales to 3-B+ is the fact he could fight on par with God Zamasu, who was able to casually ragdoll and bully Goku and Vegeta in their Blue forms and even perceived them as virtually frozen, which put him leagues above him.

I think that's not enough of a reason and is just a guesstimation. Stuff like that won't fly in any other verse. And that is not how our standards for a + rating work. So that needs to go. They can just be 3-B, but higher.

 

[Ionliosite]

I agree with AKM on everything, including removing the + on the profiles, since there is no real reason why they have it.

 

[Omegas03]

Is there no exact way to calculate the feat then? Lol

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Isn’t SSG way stronger than ssj Vegito who’s like at least 50x ssj3?

 

[AKM sama]

Is there no exact way to calculate the feat then? Lol

Nope. It's just stated that their fight would end up destroying the universe. There is no accurate timeframe and it wasn't a one-shot. In such conditions, we just default to multi-galaxy level. There isn't much to be done or said about that since it is so vague.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Are they baseline 3-B? I'm confused.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

So is this CRT going to be accepted?. I mean, will Goku and Vegeta be 3-B in their Base forms?. If that's the case, in SSB they should be millions of times above baseline.

 

[LordTracer]

Are they baseline 3-B? I'm confused.

I think they’d just be unquantifiably high into the tier.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Bump

 

[Spinoirr]

Yeah I agree