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Ifrit isnt stated to have soul manip on Dante's profile so...
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Dante vs Ryuko: Let's Do It
- Thread starter DarkGrath
- Start date
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Do I seriously need to copy and paste the page for hellfire manip.
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I mean you can but not all Hellfire manip across fiction does soul damage or negs regen
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I mean you can but not all Hellfire manip across fiction does soul damage or negs regen
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So?WeeklyBattles said:
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@Knight Dante always has sealing. Back in DMC 3 he was able to seal Arkham with his guns when he didn't even have Sparda
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So unless its explicitly shown or stated to have the ability to damage souls and negate regen Dante's hellfire wouldnt automatically be assumed to have those effectsSchnee One said:
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He did so with Virgil's help thoTheglassman12 said:
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With his guns. All Vergil did was catch his gun and they both fired a shot. Which is the same as what he did to Mundus
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Moments before he was about to do it by himself, Arkham punched one of the guns and Vergil took it
Basically I believe Ryuko would have an AP advantage against Base Dante, however, DT might give him an edge since it makes Dante strong enough to one shot someone around his base power, which was Sid, a casual 240 Megaton (I think it's 240 lol)
To add, he have more experience, speed advantage with Devil Trigger, Teleportation and Time Manipulation. He can also block attacks far above his own Base power with the Royalguard Style
The real problem is her regen, Sealing is a option but not the first move for Dante in a fight, that's why the battle would be dangerous, since Ryuko's AP will raise after Dante "kills" her once, however, he still have advantage in speed thanks to his time hax and DT (I believe her speed also raises with her Reactive Evolution, but not enough to win against Time Slow and Stop), and Royalguard can still block Ryuko's attacks, we saw that even attacks that can one shot DT Dante into a coma (his fight against Urizen) can be blocked even by Base Dante when using this, so I believe that his strong defense, enhanced with DT, would be enough to survive Ryuko's AP, if she manages to land a hit
So going with Dante
Basically I believe Ryuko would have an AP advantage against Base Dante, however, DT might give him an edge since it makes Dante strong enough to one shot someone around his base power, which was Sid, a casual 240 Megaton (I think it's 240 lol)
To add, he have more experience, speed advantage with Devil Trigger, Teleportation and Time Manipulation. He can also block attacks far above his own Base power with the Royalguard Style
The real problem is her regen, Sealing is a option but not the first move for Dante in a fight, that's why the battle would be dangerous, since Ryuko's AP will raise after Dante "kills" her once, however, he still have advantage in speed thanks to his time hax and DT (I believe her speed also raises with her Reactive Evolution, but not enough to win against Time Slow and Stop), and Royalguard can still block Ryuko's attacks, we saw that even attacks that can one shot DT Dante into a coma (his fight against Urizen) can be blocked even by Base Dante when using this, so I believe that his strong defense, enhanced with DT, would be enough to survive Ryuko's AP, if she manages to land a hit
So going with Dante
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@Dante Ryuko in her base form can oneshot dozens of people who scale to being undamaged by a 147 ton feat, and her Synchronized form allows her to oneshot that version of herself in turn, DT and Synchronized should be around the same level
How likely is he to use Royalguard?
How long does his timestop last? Ryuko is able to make hundreds of afterimages that works even against opponents as fast as herself which would definitely throw him off.
How likely is he to use Royalguard?
How long does his timestop last? Ryuko is able to make hundreds of afterimages that works even against opponents as fast as herself which would definitely throw him off.
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She one shoted all of them at once ? Even being in dozens, they don't merge durability by this, however yeah, AP seems pretty close
Royalguard is basically one of the four main styles, which are Dante's absolute first move in a fight, he uses all the times
In theory, his Time Stop is linked with his DT Gauge, since using the Bangle in game drains it, however the DT Gauge itself is just a game mechanic, since in any point of the game where Dante needs infinite DT or something related to it, it isn't a problem, however I don't know if that can be applied to the Time Hax since they are different things, and using the Gauge limitation, it lasts about a minute, which is more than enough to Dante, I believe
While Afterimage can be useful to Ryuko, Dante already fought against enemies as fast as him (or even faster) which could also use Teleportation, aka Vergil in both DMC1 and 3, also Dante resists Illusions, I already saw some fights that Afterimage was basically a Illusion and people resistant to it were fine against it, dunno if it works here, or if those people saying that were right lol
I'll keep my vote for now
Royalguard is basically one of the four main styles, which are Dante's absolute first move in a fight, he uses all the times
In theory, his Time Stop is linked with his DT Gauge, since using the Bangle in game drains it, however the DT Gauge itself is just a game mechanic, since in any point of the game where Dante needs infinite DT or something related to it, it isn't a problem, however I don't know if that can be applied to the Time Hax since they are different things, and using the Gauge limitation, it lasts about a minute, which is more than enough to Dante, I believe
While Afterimage can be useful to Ryuko, Dante already fought against enemies as fast as him (or even faster) which could also use Teleportation, aka Vergil in both DMC1 and 3, also Dante resists Illusions, I already saw some fights that Afterimage was basically a Illusion and people resistant to it were fine against it, dunno if it works here, or if those people saying that were right lol
I'll keep my vote for now
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In one fell swoop in her base form she oneshot several dozen COVERs which are equal to the Mk 2 Elite 4 yes
Okay but what i got from that is there is a 3/4 chance that he wont use it
Afterimages and illusions CAN b similar but what matters is the application, Afterimages are strictly visual but illusions can be anything from altering perception to directly interfering with the target's mind. Also, Ryuko's afterimages have tricked people who could see through the afterimages of others.
Okay but what i got from that is there is a 3/4 chance that he wont use it
Afterimages and illusions CAN b similar but what matters is the application, Afterimages are strictly visual but illusions can be anything from altering perception to directly interfering with the target's mind. Also, Ryuko's afterimages have tricked people who could see through the afterimages of others.
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Okay but what i got from that is there is a 3/4 chance that he wont use it
It would be, but his four styles aren't...you know, difficult to "switch" between them since Gunslinger, Swordmaster and Trickster are basically his sword moves, guns and his own speed, only Royalguatd involves more finesse since it's about storage and redirection of energy
In other words, three of those styles are passives and only separated for gameplay, Dante doesn't need to think "going to use Gunslinger" to pull a trigger, or to just use his speed, they are styles because it would be impossible to Dante to have a crazy gameplay without separating his abilities on sections for O/B button
Afterimages and illusions CAN b similar but what matters is the application, Afterimages are strictly visual but illusions can be anything from altering perception to directly interfering with the target's mind. Also, Ryuko's afterimages have tricked people who could see through the afterimages of others
Well, Vergil also have Afterimage Creation tho, and uses it all the times in their battle, and is likely a bit faster than Dante by 3, and yet, Dante defeated him in the end. Vergil even had Homing Attack to complete Dante's day, so while yes, the afterimages are going to be useful, since she apparently spams them more than Vergil, they are nothing new to him, and can be countered by Dante's Time Hax, Royalguard and Trickster
It would be, but his four styles aren't...you know, difficult to "switch" between them since Gunslinger, Swordmaster and Trickster are basically his sword moves, guns and his own speed, only Royalguatd involves more finesse since it's about storage and redirection of energy
In other words, three of those styles are passives and only separated for gameplay, Dante doesn't need to think "going to use Gunslinger" to pull a trigger, or to just use his speed, they are styles because it would be impossible to Dante to have a crazy gameplay without separating his abilities on sections for O/B button
Afterimages and illusions CAN b similar but what matters is the application, Afterimages are strictly visual but illusions can be anything from altering perception to directly interfering with the target's mind. Also, Ryuko's afterimages have tricked people who could see through the afterimages of others
Well, Vergil also have Afterimage Creation tho, and uses it all the times in their battle, and is likely a bit faster than Dante by 3, and yet, Dante defeated him in the end. Vergil even had Homing Attack to complete Dante's day, so while yes, the afterimages are going to be useful, since she apparently spams them more than Vergil, they are nothing new to him, and can be countered by Dante's Time Hax, Royalguard and Trickster
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Ah i see, though would the fact that Ryuko's sheer willpower creates aoe Shockwaves capable of oneshotting 7-A really be blocked by Royalguard?
Ryuko's afterimages have confused people (Nui) who can see through afterimages (From Inumuta) that confuse people who can see through afterimages (Uzu), and Ryuko's afterimages are solid, if he hits them its going to feel as though he legitimately struck Ryuko not just open air. what does Trickster do?
Ryuko's afterimages have confused people (Nui) who can see through afterimages (From Inumuta) that confuse people who can see through afterimages (Uzu), and Ryuko's afterimages are solid, if he hits them its going to feel as though he legitimately struck Ryuko not just open air. what does Trickster do?
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Ah i see, though would the fact that Ryuko's sheer willpower creates aoe Shockwaves capable of oneshotting 7-A really be blocked by Royalguard?
Yes
Urizen one shoted Dante while in DT so hard that he went to a coma for a month (lol), yet, Base Dante is capable of blocking his attacks without problems, so Urizen, who can one shot someone who can one shot base Dante can't bypass Royalguard, he can also block attacks from Sin DT Vergil while in base, and since they are equals, a SDT Vergil can also one shot Base Dante, and he wasn't holding back
Ryuko's afterimages have confused people (Nui) who can see through afterimages (From Inumuta) that confuse people who can see through afterimages (Uzu), and Ryuko's afterimages are solid, if he hits them its going to feel as though he legitimately struck Ryuko not just open air. what does Trickster do?
So it works similar to clones, right ?
Well, Trickster is his speed and teleportation, however if her afterimages can give her a numeric advantage, Dante's going to use Doppelganger which is duplication to avoid more problems, it isn't enough, I know, but working together with Trickster and Time Hax (Both Slow and Stop), I don't think her afterimages are going to be effective to the point of avoiding Ryuko's eventual defeat, you're relying on her AP nuking Dante, I believe, while using afterimages to avoid damage, but how that is going to work against Time Stop, for example ? And Dante's regen, being Mid, can also help him in case of getting hit
Also, are these afterimages tangible ? Dante have some DAs with a good range, which goes to all directions (Agni and Rudra and Nevan), could be useful ?
Yes
Urizen one shoted Dante while in DT so hard that he went to a coma for a month (lol), yet, Base Dante is capable of blocking his attacks without problems, so Urizen, who can one shot someone who can one shot base Dante can't bypass Royalguard, he can also block attacks from Sin DT Vergil while in base, and since they are equals, a SDT Vergil can also one shot Base Dante, and he wasn't holding back
Ryuko's afterimages have confused people (Nui) who can see through afterimages (From Inumuta) that confuse people who can see through afterimages (Uzu), and Ryuko's afterimages are solid, if he hits them its going to feel as though he legitimately struck Ryuko not just open air. what does Trickster do?
So it works similar to clones, right ?
Well, Trickster is his speed and teleportation, however if her afterimages can give her a numeric advantage, Dante's going to use Doppelganger which is duplication to avoid more problems, it isn't enough, I know, but working together with Trickster and Time Hax (Both Slow and Stop), I don't think her afterimages are going to be effective to the point of avoiding Ryuko's eventual defeat, you're relying on her AP nuking Dante, I believe, while using afterimages to avoid damage, but how that is going to work against Time Stop, for example ? And Dante's regen, being Mid, can also help him in case of getting hit
Also, are these afterimages tangible ? Dante have some DAs with a good range, which goes to all directions (Agni and Rudra and Nevan), could be useful ?
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Urizen one shoted Dante while in DT so hard that he went to a coma for a month (lol), yet, Base Dante is capable of blocking his attacks without problems, so Urizen, who can one shot someone who can one shot base Dante can't bypass Royalguard, he can also block attacks from Sin DT Vergil while in base, and since they are equals, a SDT Vergil can also one shot Base Dante, and he wasn't holding back
Was this in a cutscene or gameplay? Because that seems kinds like game mechanics from the way youre describing it...
As for the other thing no, theyre not clones, theyre afterimages and they function like afterimages, they just have substance to them so that if you try to strike one it will feel like you actually hit someone rather than your attack just passing through [For example, Nui stabbed one of Ryuko's afterimages through the neck and it not only bled but persisted for several seconds before vanishing], and it is able to trick people who are equal to Ryuko in speed.
If he doesnt lead with Time Stop or royalguard right off the bat he's going to be in serious trouble
Was this in a cutscene or gameplay? Because that seems kinds like game mechanics from the way youre describing it...
As for the other thing no, theyre not clones, theyre afterimages and they function like afterimages, they just have substance to them so that if you try to strike one it will feel like you actually hit someone rather than your attack just passing through [For example, Nui stabbed one of Ryuko's afterimages through the neck and it not only bled but persisted for several seconds before vanishing], and it is able to trick people who are equal to Ryuko in speed.
If he doesnt lead with Time Stop or royalguard right off the bat he's going to be in serious trouble
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Was this in a cutscene or gameplay? Because that seems kinds like game mechanics from the way youre describing it...
Gameplay, both Urizen and Vergil
You can say that Urizen wasn't serious in their first fight, but SDT Vergil was going all out, yet Base Royalguard can block without any trouble
It isn't gameplay mech, this style was shown to be capable of blocking attacks from people comparable, stronger or capable of one shoting Dante many times in DMC3 and DMC5, it was the case against Temen Ni Gru guardians (before Dante unlocked his DT), against Vergil (Base Dante can block both Vergil and DT Vergil, the later can one shot him since it is the difference in AP that DT gives to the user), Arkham (Base Dante can block his attacks, and Arkham is capable of fighting both Dante and Vergil at the same time), Urizen (one shoted DT Dante, but Royalguard can block him), and DMC5 Vergil (Base, DT or SDT, and SDT is even stronger than normal Devil Trigger), only DMC4 is out but the strongest being in that game is 7-B while Dante is 3-A so...
As for the other thing no, theyre not clones, theyre afterimages and they function like afterimages, they just have substance to them so that if you try to strike one it will feel like you actually hit someone rather than your attack just passing through [For example, Nui stabbed one of Ryuko's afterimages through the neck and it not only bled but persisted for several seconds before vanishing], and it is able to trick people who are equal to Ryuko in speed.
Got it, thanks
Base Dante is equal to Ryuko in speed, DT Dante will be faster than her since DT also makes him faster
I dunno if her Reactive Evolution also makes her faster
If he doesnt lead with Time Stop or royalguard right off the bat he's going to be in serious trouble
He leads with Royalguard, no doubt about that, aswell as Trickster, and DT is very in character against comparable opponents
However, Time Hax in general, since it's a game, is more related to necessity, you'll won't see Dante using Time Hax because "lol it's cool" except the main versions who had those abilities, DMC3 will use Quicksilver in character, DMC1 will use Time Stop in character, DMC2 will use Time Stop (Chrono Heart) in character, DMC5 will use Time Slow in character (in SDT)
However, Anime Dante (the one used here) and DMC4 Dante will only use if they have to, which leads us to a case by case scenario, does he needs here ? The answer is yes, going by your description about Ryuko's afterimage, and by using it, those afterimages would be useless, same goes with Doppelganger, if he will need to cover more ground, it's a option, and let's not forget that Trickster and Royalguard would be working all the times. He also have some range options with some DAs, but he really don't carry them without some prep time, since he sold them all to Enzo's shop and only purchases them for specific jobs, the only DA that he carries is Cerberus apparently, since he stated in a novel that fire is a very common power for demons, while summoning Cerberus, hinting that he carries with him all the times, so no Agni & Rudra to create big fire tornados or Nevan to cover the field with lightning, they would be good options, but completely out of his character
What makes this a really hard fight is Ryuko's regen, to be honest. The fight will start, Dante will use Swords and Guns while Ryuko apparently goes with Afterimages, Dante will use DT seeing that his enemy is comparable to him in AP, and then gain a upgrade for AP and speed, but it's not enough against Ryuko's afterimages and he's getting some trouble, so he uses Time Hax and kills her, she regenerates stronger than before, Dante would just need the same strategy to that he used first, but will use Sealing since he saw that he can't kill her with normal attacks. His Sealing also sends the target to the Demon World. While this strategy can take some time, since it goes from realizing he will need Time Hax to using Sealing to fight her Regen, we have some factors to say that Dante wins here, because it could be a Inconclusive scenario
First, he doesn't really need to see the full extension of her regenartion to realize he will need sealing, a sword fight between them might show to both some examples of their regen, seeing her regenerate from stabs and amputations can be enough to make Dante go with Sealing
Second, he can stand a fight against her without Time Hax (he's going to use, however it can take some time, not that long, but still), thanks to his strong defense and teleportation, Royalguard can block her attacks and redirect them to her, blocking her attacks also restores energy which can be used to heal Dante during the battle. Teleportation is important and backed up by Enhanced Senses and his greater speed by himself during DT (Also, since here we are on the first stage of the fight, Ryuko didn't had any power ups, since Dante didn't "killed" her yet, so in DT, he is faster than her, after this stage, things will change, but I'll get there). So merely surviving her afterimages are not going to be a super problem, and for now they are comparable in AP, so getting hit doesn't mean K.O, and Dante's Mid regen is also going to be useful since it can heal him even against brain damage, so Ryuko will need to cut him into pieces, which is unlikely with all of those advantages and factors that I said
So my vote is Dante since he can survive against Ryuko for a extended period, thanks to Royalguard, Teleportation, Enhanced senses, higher speed in DT and Insta Mid Regen, bypass her completly with Time Hax and negate her Regen with Sealing or BFR
Gameplay, both Urizen and Vergil
You can say that Urizen wasn't serious in their first fight, but SDT Vergil was going all out, yet Base Royalguard can block without any trouble
It isn't gameplay mech, this style was shown to be capable of blocking attacks from people comparable, stronger or capable of one shoting Dante many times in DMC3 and DMC5, it was the case against Temen Ni Gru guardians (before Dante unlocked his DT), against Vergil (Base Dante can block both Vergil and DT Vergil, the later can one shot him since it is the difference in AP that DT gives to the user), Arkham (Base Dante can block his attacks, and Arkham is capable of fighting both Dante and Vergil at the same time), Urizen (one shoted DT Dante, but Royalguard can block him), and DMC5 Vergil (Base, DT or SDT, and SDT is even stronger than normal Devil Trigger), only DMC4 is out but the strongest being in that game is 7-B while Dante is 3-A so...
As for the other thing no, theyre not clones, theyre afterimages and they function like afterimages, they just have substance to them so that if you try to strike one it will feel like you actually hit someone rather than your attack just passing through [For example, Nui stabbed one of Ryuko's afterimages through the neck and it not only bled but persisted for several seconds before vanishing], and it is able to trick people who are equal to Ryuko in speed.
Got it, thanks
Base Dante is equal to Ryuko in speed, DT Dante will be faster than her since DT also makes him faster
I dunno if her Reactive Evolution also makes her faster
If he doesnt lead with Time Stop or royalguard right off the bat he's going to be in serious trouble
He leads with Royalguard, no doubt about that, aswell as Trickster, and DT is very in character against comparable opponents
However, Time Hax in general, since it's a game, is more related to necessity, you'll won't see Dante using Time Hax because "lol it's cool" except the main versions who had those abilities, DMC3 will use Quicksilver in character, DMC1 will use Time Stop in character, DMC2 will use Time Stop (Chrono Heart) in character, DMC5 will use Time Slow in character (in SDT)
However, Anime Dante (the one used here) and DMC4 Dante will only use if they have to, which leads us to a case by case scenario, does he needs here ? The answer is yes, going by your description about Ryuko's afterimage, and by using it, those afterimages would be useless, same goes with Doppelganger, if he will need to cover more ground, it's a option, and let's not forget that Trickster and Royalguard would be working all the times. He also have some range options with some DAs, but he really don't carry them without some prep time, since he sold them all to Enzo's shop and only purchases them for specific jobs, the only DA that he carries is Cerberus apparently, since he stated in a novel that fire is a very common power for demons, while summoning Cerberus, hinting that he carries with him all the times, so no Agni & Rudra to create big fire tornados or Nevan to cover the field with lightning, they would be good options, but completely out of his character
What makes this a really hard fight is Ryuko's regen, to be honest. The fight will start, Dante will use Swords and Guns while Ryuko apparently goes with Afterimages, Dante will use DT seeing that his enemy is comparable to him in AP, and then gain a upgrade for AP and speed, but it's not enough against Ryuko's afterimages and he's getting some trouble, so he uses Time Hax and kills her, she regenerates stronger than before, Dante would just need the same strategy to that he used first, but will use Sealing since he saw that he can't kill her with normal attacks. His Sealing also sends the target to the Demon World. While this strategy can take some time, since it goes from realizing he will need Time Hax to using Sealing to fight her Regen, we have some factors to say that Dante wins here, because it could be a Inconclusive scenario
First, he doesn't really need to see the full extension of her regenartion to realize he will need sealing, a sword fight between them might show to both some examples of their regen, seeing her regenerate from stabs and amputations can be enough to make Dante go with Sealing
Second, he can stand a fight against her without Time Hax (he's going to use, however it can take some time, not that long, but still), thanks to his strong defense and teleportation, Royalguard can block her attacks and redirect them to her, blocking her attacks also restores energy which can be used to heal Dante during the battle. Teleportation is important and backed up by Enhanced Senses and his greater speed by himself during DT (Also, since here we are on the first stage of the fight, Ryuko didn't had any power ups, since Dante didn't "killed" her yet, so in DT, he is faster than her, after this stage, things will change, but I'll get there). So merely surviving her afterimages are not going to be a super problem, and for now they are comparable in AP, so getting hit doesn't mean K.O, and Dante's Mid regen is also going to be useful since it can heal him even against brain damage, so Ryuko will need to cut him into pieces, which is unlikely with all of those advantages and factors that I said
So my vote is Dante since he can survive against Ryuko for a extended period, thanks to Royalguard, Teleportation, Enhanced senses, higher speed in DT and Insta Mid Regen, bypass her completly with Time Hax and negate her Regen with Sealing or BFR
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Gameplay
Then unfortunately we cant really accept it as anything other than game mechanics unless he's explicitly used Royalguard in a cutscene to block things that can otherwise oneshot him.
I dunno if her Reactive Evolution also makes her faster
It does, to the point that in one boost she can go from being speedblitzed by someone to being able to speedblitz the person who previously speedblitzed her.
Everything else
Ryuko with her regular attacks has an AoE of kilometers, and can make multi-kilometer ranged slashes
Before i make a long and rather uninformed argument as a rebuttal, would you mind posting scans of him doing...any of what you just said in his anime key?
Then unfortunately we cant really accept it as anything other than game mechanics unless he's explicitly used Royalguard in a cutscene to block things that can otherwise oneshot him.
I dunno if her Reactive Evolution also makes her faster
It does, to the point that in one boost she can go from being speedblitzed by someone to being able to speedblitz the person who previously speedblitzed her.
Everything else
Ryuko with her regular attacks has an AoE of kilometers, and can make multi-kilometer ranged slashes
Before i make a long and rather uninformed argument as a rebuttal, would you mind posting scans of him doing...any of what you just said in his anime key?
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- Thread starter
- #61
Royal Guard is not just a game mechanic.
The way it works is through demonic energy manipulation, which has been explained in the series before. Dante can use demonic energy to create physical objects for a very short amount of time, which is (for just another example) how double jumping works (the ability descriptions in-game state that he's double jumping by creating a platform beneath his feet for a split second to jump off of). The way that Royal Guard works is that he can create a shield for a split second when he attempt to guard an opponent by using his demonic energy manipulation, which is backed up in game by the identical effects created when you guard an attack and when you do the double jump. So no, it's not just a game mechanic. Also, I don't mean to seem hostile or rude at all, but this topic has already been done to death in DMC CRT's before. Not much will come out of discussing it again.
As for the strength of Royal Guard, it's clearly shown to be tough enough to completely nullify damage from characters who are normally able to one-shot him (like Urizen, as mentioned above). So unless Ryuko has an absurd AP advantage (which it doesn't seem like she does), it should be able to nullify and reflect her attacks back at her.
Also, for the speedblitz point, hasn't it already been agreed as apart of Versus Match rules that abilities that would boost speed in a speed equalised match are only allowed so long as they don't result in speedblitz's? If you're saying that the ability in question would result in a speedblitz, despite the speed being equalised, that ability would also be equalised and that point would be moot.
The way it works is through demonic energy manipulation, which has been explained in the series before. Dante can use demonic energy to create physical objects for a very short amount of time, which is (for just another example) how double jumping works (the ability descriptions in-game state that he's double jumping by creating a platform beneath his feet for a split second to jump off of). The way that Royal Guard works is that he can create a shield for a split second when he attempt to guard an opponent by using his demonic energy manipulation, which is backed up in game by the identical effects created when you guard an attack and when you do the double jump. So no, it's not just a game mechanic. Also, I don't mean to seem hostile or rude at all, but this topic has already been done to death in DMC CRT's before. Not much will come out of discussing it again.
As for the strength of Royal Guard, it's clearly shown to be tough enough to completely nullify damage from characters who are normally able to one-shot him (like Urizen, as mentioned above). So unless Ryuko has an absurd AP advantage (which it doesn't seem like she does), it should be able to nullify and reflect her attacks back at her.
Also, for the speedblitz point, hasn't it already been agreed as apart of Versus Match rules that abilities that would boost speed in a speed equalised match are only allowed so long as they don't result in speedblitz's? If you're saying that the ability in question would result in a speedblitz, despite the speed being equalised, that ability would also be equalised and that point would be moot.
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Im not saying that the ability itself is game mechanics im saying that unless its actually shown to canonically block stuff vastly above Dante's durability in something like a cutscene, it having the ability to block tier 3 attacks would be considered game mechanics just like we do for every other video game character here. But to answer your question yes, Ryuko will eventually reach an exponentially higher AP advantage, enough to bypass royalguard, over the course of the fight.
Seeing as Dante was argued as being the one who speedblitzes despite being the slower party yes, Dante's speed amp would be noped, whereas Ryuko's would not.
Seeing as Dante was argued as being the one who speedblitzes despite being the slower party yes, Dante's speed amp would be noped, whereas Ryuko's would not.
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Also you guys really shouldnt be arguing that 7-A dante's Royalguard is anywhere near comparable to 3-A Dante's without feats of 7-A dante blocking 3-A attacks.
3-A Dante blocking 3-A attacks does not mean 7-A dante can block 3-A attacks.
3-A Dante blocking 3-A attacks does not mean 7-A dante can block 3-A attacks.
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I said that DT Dante would have a speed advantage against No-Power-Up Ryuko, not that he speedblitzes, we don't know how many times DT amps his speed, 10X is only with Quick Heart which he doesn't have here
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Then what is the issue? Speed amps only get noped if the slower party would win via speedblitzing
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DMC3 Dante, who's inferior to this Dante, can also block attacks from DT Vergil, for example, we're not saying that he can block attacks from Tier 3 being Tier 7WeeklyBattles said:
Then what is the issue? Speed amps only get noped if the slower party would win via speedblitzing
As you said, if Ryuko's speed amp makes her speedblitz, it would get noped, Dante's speed amp with DT doesn't make this a speedblitz, we don't know how many times it amps, and DT never showed to blitz someone comparable to Base Dante's speed, not without the Quick Heart, at least
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I didn't say that 7-A Dante could Royal Guard 3-A attacks. I used it as a point of comparison to say that Dante can still Royal Guard characters who can otherwise casually one-shot him, which is consistent.
DT increases Dante's speed, but not to the point of speedblitzing, so it would be allowed. You claimed that Ryuko's abilities allowed her to speedblitz people who would normally speedblitz her, and since Dante only has a mild advantage in speed through abilities in this fight, her ability would be a speedblitz. So Dante's speed advantage through DT would be allowed as per match rules, but Ryuko's wouldn't.
DT increases Dante's speed, but not to the point of speedblitzing, so it would be allowed. You claimed that Ryuko's abilities allowed her to speedblitz people who would normally speedblitz her, and since Dante only has a mild advantage in speed through abilities in this fight, her ability would be a speedblitz. So Dante's speed advantage through DT would be allowed as per match rules, but Ryuko's wouldn't.
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DMC3 Dante, who's inferior to this Dante, can also block attacks from DT Vergil, for example, we're not saying that he can block attacks from Tier 3 being Tier 7
Then Ryuko would very quickly amp to the point of being able to oneshot, hell given the initial AP gap between the two unless Dante starts the fight already in DT mode there is a very good chane Ryuko can just oneshot him right off the bat.
As you said, if Ryuko's speed amp makes her speedblitz, it would get noped, Dante's speed amp with DT doesn't make this a speedblitz, we don't know how many times it amps, and DT never showed to blitz someone comparable to Base Dante's speed without the Quickheart
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Versus_Thread_Rules
"During a match where speed is equalized, speed amplification techniques are allowed, unless they lead to a victory via Speed Blitz in favor of the slower character."
Dante is the slower of the two, not Ryuko, so no, Ryuko's speed amps would not be noped.
Then Ryuko would very quickly amp to the point of being able to oneshot, hell given the initial AP gap between the two unless Dante starts the fight already in DT mode there is a very good chane Ryuko can just oneshot him right off the bat.
As you said, if Ryuko's speed amp makes her speedblitz, it would get noped, Dante's speed amp with DT doesn't make this a speedblitz, we don't know how many times it amps, and DT never showed to blitz someone comparable to Base Dante's speed without the Quickheart
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Versus_Thread_Rules
"During a match where speed is equalized, speed amplification techniques are allowed, unless they lead to a victory via Speed Blitz in favor of the slower character."
Dante is the slower of the two, not Ryuko, so no, Ryuko's speed amps would not be noped.
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Damn triple post
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I didn't say that 7-A Dante could Royal Guard 3-A attacks. I used it as a point of comparison to say that Dante can still Royal Guard characters who can otherwise casually one-shot him, which is consistent.
Ryuko can oneshot people who oneshot people who are comparable in power and durability to Base Dante. Unless he starts this fight in DT mode he wouldnt be able to block it without taking serious damage.
DT increases Dante's speed, but not to the point of speedblitzing, so it would be allowed. You claimed that Ryuko's abilities allowed her to speedblitz people who would normally speedblitz her, and since Dante only has a mild advantage in speed through abilities in this fight, her ability would be a speedblitz. So Dante's speed advantage through DT would be allowed as per match rules, but Ryuko's wouldn't.
Speedblitzing amps are fine as long as its not the slower character using it, whih in this case its not as Dante is the slower of the two.
Ryuko can oneshot people who oneshot people who are comparable in power and durability to Base Dante. Unless he starts this fight in DT mode he wouldnt be able to block it without taking serious damage.
DT increases Dante's speed, but not to the point of speedblitzing, so it would be allowed. You claimed that Ryuko's abilities allowed her to speedblitz people who would normally speedblitz her, and since Dante only has a mild advantage in speed through abilities in this fight, her ability would be a speedblitz. So Dante's speed advantage through DT would be allowed as per match rules, but Ryuko's wouldn't.
Speedblitzing amps are fine as long as its not the slower character using it, whih in this case its not as Dante is the slower of the two.
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Well, we don't have a slower character here, their base speed is the same at the start
But Dante can amp with DT
And Ryuko with Reactive Evolution
But Dante can amp with DT
And Ryuko with Reactive Evolution
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Dante is the initially slower one going by their numbers which is what we go by in determining which sped amps are allowed in a SE match, and as such Ryuko's speed being higher means her amps are allowed due to her being the faster one if speed were unequalized
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Wait, isn't speed equalised for their base start ?
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Speed is equalized yes but when looking at when speed amps would or would not be allowed we look at how they compare in a speed unequalized situation, and in said situation Ryuko is the faster of the two so her amps would be allowed
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Isn't this kinda contradictory ? The faster character can go much faster, but the slower can't ?
However, Dante scales to being unfathomably superior to demons who are far superior to DMC3 Vergil who can fodderize MHS+ Demons who scale to Lightning
And we have a new feat coming that might be above MHS+
And Ryuko ?
However, Dante scales to being unfathomably superior to demons who are far superior to DMC3 Vergil who can fodderize MHS+ Demons who scale to Lightning
And we have a new feat coming that might be above MHS+
And Ryuko ?
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I'm willing to believe that Ryuko has the AP advantage, but that example is absurd.
Sid Abigail has a casual 240 megaton feat. Like, so casual that it barely even affected him in the slightest. Base Dante can very casually trade blows with him, and DT Dante can casually one-shot him.
You mentioned that Ryuko scales from a 147 ton feat (I assume you meant megaton?) by being able to one shot groups of people who are undamaged by 147 megaton attacks. If the way you've described it is correct, then it wouldn't be a perfect multiplication of AP (like, killing 11 people would mean 11x the AP required to kill one of them) as it sounds like they were all killed within a very short amount of time, rather than completely instantaneously. Considering that AP refers to the amount of energy exerted in one second, her AP would be:
1: A few times above a 147 megaton feat (to account for being able to harm them)
2: A few times above that, to be able to do it to multiple of them in a very short vicinity.
All things considered, I'm willing to believe that she has an AP advantage. But it would not be several layers of one-shots like you are claiming, unless some important information is unclear here.
Sid Abigail has a casual 240 megaton feat. Like, so casual that it barely even affected him in the slightest. Base Dante can very casually trade blows with him, and DT Dante can casually one-shot him.
You mentioned that Ryuko scales from a 147 ton feat (I assume you meant megaton?) by being able to one shot groups of people who are undamaged by 147 megaton attacks. If the way you've described it is correct, then it wouldn't be a perfect multiplication of AP (like, killing 11 people would mean 11x the AP required to kill one of them) as it sounds like they were all killed within a very short amount of time, rather than completely instantaneously. Considering that AP refers to the amount of energy exerted in one second, her AP would be:
1: A few times above a 147 megaton feat (to account for being able to harm them)
2: A few times above that, to be able to do it to multiple of them in a very short vicinity.
All things considered, I'm willing to believe that she has an AP advantage. But it would not be several layers of one-shots like you are claiming, unless some important information is unclear here.
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Ryuko scales to being able to outspeed Nui, who can casually speedblitz her post 3-Star form as well as speedblitz Mk 3 Uzu, who is much faster than Mk 2 Uzu who is much faster than Mk 1 Uzu who speedblitzed Synchronized Ryuko who is IMMENSELY faster than her at the Beginning of the Series where before she had even started to master her powers she was capable of performing a casual Mach 4528 featDante Demon Killah said:
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Ryuko scales to being able to in her base form without transforming being able to oneshot COVERs and Nui clones which are stronger than the Mk 2 Elite 4 who tanked 147 Megatons at point blank range with no damage. Her transformed state which she starts out with is exponentially stronger.DarkGrath said:
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Yeah, she's much faster than him
If speed is going to be decisive, we should wait Weekly, I'm making a CRT for DMC in speed that would affect Anime Dante
If speed is going to be decisive, we should wait Weekly, I'm making a CRT for DMC in speed that would affect Anime Dante
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Again, since there is a new feat being dealt with, it's very likely that Dante's speed will be revised soon. I don't know the exact calculation of the feat, but going off of similar examples it appears as though it would put him at around Relativistic, which would make Ryuko slower. If that aspect of their speed is that important to the match, it's probably best to wait for any revisions first before continuing the match, as this would likely massively affect the outcome and would require redoing in the future.
