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Dante vs Kratos (on-screen feats only)
- Thread starter Silvervigilant
- Start date
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dante has this passive thing that makes him 10x faster, its on his speed category
not sure if it ever happened on screen
but if thats not allowed he would still have the immeasurable void mundus feat
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- Thread starter
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I am too.
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Is that purely in-game? As in, the totality of what's needed for the feat to be Immeasurable.
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the feat was performed by him in volume 2 and text feats are allowed
yes it is accepted as a separate immeasurable speed feat if thats what you mean
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- Thread starter
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The feat is him dodging void mundus omnnipresent attacks right?
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yeah
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Wait, Volume 2 as in DMC 2 or the novel?
If the former then Ig Immeasurable is fine. Now to find out his physicals and hax.
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It's a novel feat, but i don't if this feat is even quantifiable tho.
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because it is a feat dante performed himself and we see him do it
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Well you have a point i admit, but since dante really do this stuff in the novel (is not some kind of hyperbole, or something that it said that he could do) he literally dodges attacks from void Mundus. A feat that is clearer than some of the ones in his games. I thought it would not have any problem to let him have this feat.
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This is a game only thread. By that logic I might as well give Kratos Tier 1 and Infinite speed again.
I'm not saying Dante doesn't do it. I'm saying it defeats the spirit of the thread i.e. scaling like you just have the main media and nothing else.
Then the thread becomes pretty redundant. Since I thought the whole point was power scaling pure gameplay (with in-game dialogue/codex/lore for context).
Using novel feats pretty much just makes this regular Kratos vs Dante.
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Alright i'm not familiarized with GOW novels and comics but if that's really the case let's just use the main games it's simpler anyways.
This is more or less what i had in mind when first posted this thread tbh.
Tanin_iver
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For Dante:
Attack Potency/Striking Strength/Durability: At least Universe level (Fought Mundus who can fart a infinitely expanding universe with a starry sky), likely Low Multiverse level (Defeated Argosax, who was merging both the HW and DW which are universes)
Speed: At least Massively FTL+ (Comparable to Mundus who flew across the dimension/universe zipping past stars), likely Immeasurable (Reacts to Fury, who evolved to move so fast that they jump through space and time by using Demonic energy to amp their speed)
Lifting Strength: Immeasurable (Scales to Argosax who was physically merging HW and DW)
I am too lazy to do the hax one now, if someone else is interested they can chime in, or I might do it
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Was the confirmation of them individually being universes in-game? If so then it would be 2-C outright.
Can the speed thing be elaborated? "Space-time jumps" in and of themselves aren't Immeasurable without elaboration as to how they move through time.
The LS thing is tied back to the first question.
Tanin_iver
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There were showings of reality warping and messing with space time and referencing that space time is warped due to both combining. There is also the fact that different points in time being connected which leads to time paradox of Phantom appearing in future, but some of these stuff is better elaborated on guidebook I think. Although actively being merged was referenced on-screen iirc. I might have to find the scans for it but a bit lazy for that now. U can look at the old cosmo blogs to see in general if they can count
Fury's in-game description and how he moves. If u really wanna Low-Ball then MFTL end is there too.
Also, Stamina: Superhuman (Dante and Vergil fought against each other for 39 days straight in the Underworld from June 15 to July 24 while having extremely short breaks)
Just copied that from the wiki cos it was stated in-game
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I mean, the space-time stuff itself isn't the issue, but the size of either (hence why I didn't immediately put Kratos at 2-C cause of the Nine Realms).
Stamina is fine.
Kratos gives himself infinite rage on-screen and instantly recovers from exhaustion in Norse on-screen. He climbs a mountain for 3 days straight and shrugs off weeks of torture as a demigod.
Tanin_iver
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The demon world is also called endless by an astronomical charting device, and is stated to have an endless sea, these I could find in-game. The Gigapede demonstrates the human universe also has its own space-time fabric. Although I couldn't find a precise size for HW in-game.
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There is a video of it having a starry sky in dmc 4
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That wasn’t the one i meant, but that also works.this one?
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Its actually simple. There are scenes of starry sky in Human World which is a part of Underworld. Underworld in itself by default should be much larger then Human World given the size comparison we seen in the DMC3 Manga let alone all other scans like PoC where there is a space filled with stars and Nebulas or Mundus' dimension where he fought Vergil. Then we also have statements of Human World and Demon World being separate space-times or so.
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Starry sky is a confirmation of At least 4-A.
We can't use the manga here, remember. Nor PoC. This thread is pure main game stuff.
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Oh shoot! Sorry for that.
Anyway I don't see any problem on using PoC tho as it's a sequel within the series believe it or not. I think the feats we seen from it should be relevant to be discussed because, as the OP says, we need in-game feats and this is in-game stuff we can pull from.
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I mean, I suppose. But on its own it confirms at least starry sky sized space-time dimensions. The size comparison and the Ray of Light statement are manga though.
@Silvervigilant Valhalla recently gave an in-game confirmation of the destruction of the World Pillar ending creation itself. Considering that we see the universe being made by Uranus, would that be enough to put the minimum for Kratos at 3-A?
@Silvervigilant Valhalla recently gave an in-game confirmation of the destruction of the World Pillar ending creation itself. Considering that we see the universe being made by Uranus, would that be enough to put the minimum for Kratos at 3-A?
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And what about space-time continuum scan we get from DMC3? Wouldn't that count for an actual full fleshed 4D universe? Especially considering we have more backup support with starry sky we see on multiple occasions.
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Even the Nine Realms have starry skies. They even have parallel spatial existence and disconnected time going for them. I still defaulted to Tier 4 because of the biggest qualifier, size. Remember that as far as the wiki tiers go, just being disconnected dimensions/space-times isn't enough for Tier 2. It's just that most of the time, we have size but not the disconnectedness or a space-time mention.
If you do have in-game size statements or cutscenes then lay em on me though.
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I believe so yeah
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For Kratos;
Attack Potency/Striking Strength/Durability: At least Universe level (Stronger than Atlas, who damaged the World Pillar that supported Creation, which is a whole universe made by Ceto punching Uranus. Consistently battles and kills beings that can create and destroy dimensions with suns and starry skies), likely Universe level+ (Defeated Thor, whose blows shook Yggdrasil, which holds all of creation in its boughs and transcends space and time)
Speed: Massively FTL+ (Comparable to beings who can dodge Helios' light, which can cover the Underworld, which has stars in it. Faster than Atreus' arrows, which reached the Sun in seconds. Can react to Thor's shockwaves, which can cover the Yggdrasil immediately)
Lifting Strength: Universal (Stronger than Hades, who is stronger than Atlas, who supports Creation on his shoulders)
Stamina: Superhuman (Far superior to how he was as a mere demigod, when he could withstand weeks of physical, mental and spiritual torture and be ready to fight at peak form, as well as climb a mountain for days straight. Can regenerate his stamina mid battle and give himself a potentially infinite amount of magic via rage)
Resistances:
Attack Potency/Striking Strength/Durability: At least Universe level (Stronger than Atlas, who damaged the World Pillar that supported Creation, which is a whole universe made by Ceto punching Uranus. Consistently battles and kills beings that can create and destroy dimensions with suns and starry skies), likely Universe level+ (Defeated Thor, whose blows shook Yggdrasil, which holds all of creation in its boughs and transcends space and time)
Speed: Massively FTL+ (Comparable to beings who can dodge Helios' light, which can cover the Underworld, which has stars in it. Faster than Atreus' arrows, which reached the Sun in seconds. Can react to Thor's shockwaves, which can cover the Yggdrasil immediately)
Lifting Strength: Universal (Stronger than Hades, who is stronger than Atlas, who supports Creation on his shoulders)
Stamina: Superhuman (Far superior to how he was as a mere demigod, when he could withstand weeks of physical, mental and spiritual torture and be ready to fight at peak form, as well as climb a mountain for days straight. Can regenerate his stamina mid battle and give himself a potentially infinite amount of magic via rage)
- Superhuman Physical Characteristics: Self-explanatory.
- Rage Power: Self-explanatory
- Reactive Evolution: Adapted to the Amulet of Ouroboros during the fight itself. Gradually adapted to being unaffected by Heimdall's telepathy. Could siphon Thor's powers when the latter was previously immune to his spear in the same fight.
- Absorption: Absorbed the souls of the Elysian Fields. Absorbed Hades' soul. Uses his blades to absorb different magics from other beings, like Thera.
- Mind Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3): Can grab, harm and destroy souls himself and with various weapons. Souls are made up of the Mind, Direction, Form and Luck.
- Fire Manipulation: Via rage, magics and Blades.
- Ice Manipulation: Via Leviathan Axe.
- Electricity Manipulation: Via Nemesis Whip and various magics.
- Wind Manipulation: Via Draupnir.
- Power Absorption and Energy Projection: Via Blade of Olympus.
- Regeneration (Low-Mid): Heals from deep cuts, gashes and stabs through his torso instantly
- Vibration Manipulation: Via Atlas Quake.
- Time Manipulation, Time Travel, Time Slow and Stop: Can travel through time and space with the powers of the Fates. Can manipulate time with the Amulet of Ouroboros.
Resistances:
- Soul Manipulation, Memory Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3): Can withstand and shrug off attempts to absorb his soul from Hades.
- Power Absorption: Can hold the Blade of Olympus by its edge.
- Corruption and Transmutation: Can ignore the dark energy of the Erebus Gate.
- Time Manipulation, Time Slow and Time Stop: Can resist the Amulet of Ouroboros which can control time.
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I think you are not understanding what i'm trying to say here, there is a statement in DMC3 that clearly says "Space-time continuum" inside Nirvana dimension let alone Demon World. So the universe should be a full fleshed 2C structure in accordance to tiering system here. The word "Continuum" is used for a full fleshed 4D Universe anyway. The starry sky is just used as backup support which goes very well with the statements within the games.
And yes i'm talking from in-game statement perspective if it is allowed at all.
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Anyway lemme just cover what Dante has here:
Statistics:
Strength: Universe-Universe level+ (Mundus created a universe on screen and his death as a side effect was going to destroy the entire Demon World under which a single dimension was stated to be a space-time continuum among other numerous dimensions that has seen to have starry sky.) Way above (Got much stronger throughout the series to the point he could oneshot himself from DMC1 era twice.)
Speed: Massively FTL+ (Was travelling across interstellar distances in short period of time when he was fighting Mundus.)
Lifting Strength: Universal, likely immeasurable (Argosax could pull both Human World and Demon World into one single existent world with mere existence)
Stamina: Superhuman (Both Dante and Vergil could fight for 39 days with little breaks in the middle)
Notable Abilities + Resistance:
Accelerated development and adaptation: Dante on multiple occasions have shown the ability to adapt to its surroundings throughout the series.
Time manipulation (Layered): Bangle of Time, Quick Silver and other time stopping abilities gained throughout the series have variety of effects ranging from slowing to acceleration or even stopping time across an entire space. Shown various instances where a character could resist such hax only for them to be caught by greater ones.
Soul manipulation: Doesn't even need an explanation lmao.
Space-time manipulation: Yamato could slice through space-time with its blade.
Beyond Absolute Zero: Have King Cerberus as his equipment who should scale to inferior Demons who have statements for having beyond absolute zero freezing on spiritual scale. Also confirmed via PoC where Cerberus has an absolute zero move and stated to freeze down his enemies to their very soul.
Elementals: Possess all elemental abilities on spiritual scale.
Resistances: Argosax possessed every single hax in the entire verse and none of it has a shot against Dante during DMC2 era.
Statistics:
Strength: Universe-Universe level+ (Mundus created a universe on screen and his death as a side effect was going to destroy the entire Demon World under which a single dimension was stated to be a space-time continuum among other numerous dimensions that has seen to have starry sky.) Way above (Got much stronger throughout the series to the point he could oneshot himself from DMC1 era twice.)
Speed: Massively FTL+ (Was travelling across interstellar distances in short period of time when he was fighting Mundus.)
Lifting Strength: Universal, likely immeasurable (Argosax could pull both Human World and Demon World into one single existent world with mere existence)
Stamina: Superhuman (Both Dante and Vergil could fight for 39 days with little breaks in the middle)
Notable Abilities + Resistance:
Accelerated development and adaptation: Dante on multiple occasions have shown the ability to adapt to its surroundings throughout the series.
Time manipulation (Layered): Bangle of Time, Quick Silver and other time stopping abilities gained throughout the series have variety of effects ranging from slowing to acceleration or even stopping time across an entire space. Shown various instances where a character could resist such hax only for them to be caught by greater ones.
Soul manipulation: Doesn't even need an explanation lmao.
Space-time manipulation: Yamato could slice through space-time with its blade.
Beyond Absolute Zero: Have King Cerberus as his equipment who should scale to inferior Demons who have statements for having beyond absolute zero freezing on spiritual scale. Also confirmed via PoC where Cerberus has an absolute zero move and stated to freeze down his enemies to their very soul.
Elementals: Possess all elemental abilities on spiritual scale.
Resistances: Argosax possessed every single hax in the entire verse and none of it has a shot against Dante during DMC2 era.
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shouldn't it be 2-C since hw, the nirvana thing and dw are universes?
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Actually yeah given it was one among other Nirvana dimensions and Human World being a part of Underworld tbw. I just went for a lowball here given we don't have much context in such situation but ig from a logical standpoint, you can make that conclusion here I suppose.
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Kratos has 5 layers of mind/soul/concept hax given that the Sirens, Furies, Persephone, and Hades feats are in-game.
Edit: Can the resistance section be explained for Dante? "All hax" doesn't tell me much when a chunk of it uses non-game context for it. Same with the layered time manipulation. I'll do the same if need be.
Edit: Can the resistance section be explained for Dante? "All hax" doesn't tell me much when a chunk of it uses non-game context for it. Same with the layered time manipulation. I'll do the same if need be.
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Problem right now is that DMC have still to evaluate its layers atm so it might be difficult to answer this question. This thread shouldn't even exist in the first place given DMC is soo outdated right now.
All haxs would include everything aside from CM, AE, Void and Probability hax that we get from mangas, novels and anime.
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Doesn't he have that infamous "fear hax buildings" thing from the novels (or was it manga) ? That's what I meant by elaboration.
Like how Kratos has CM but the degree changes massively depending on if you use the game only but everything else. Basically list the power and the level it's at using just games.
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