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Dante vs Hoopa
- Thread starter Delta333
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Either way the fact it's being even questioned what Hoopa starts with and how is hax works on top off his W over Kratos being called into question just proves how shaky the assumptions are, we need to be transparent about Hoopa's whole schick before deciding how a battle would go.
Apparently they were some external influences within the movie that explains some of the inconsistencies via the novelization of it (likely Llama shenanigans). Tho @Executor_N0 knows more about it than I do.
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Iâll need to find that novelization then. If I can, the movie conveniently has a free review with all the fight scenes in it.
Though there is one thing I somewhat want to add to my previous comment. The evil Hoopa actually summoned smoke before he summoned the trio (to try and choke out the good Hoopa and his summons). And before summoning he shot a laser beam and threw one pokemon through a portal. So even using the scene where he summoned the creation trio that still wasnât his opening move. I just wanted to make that somewhat clear so even with the most gun happy assumption the creation trio wonât immediately come out and wreck.
Though there is one thing I somewhat want to add to my previous comment. The evil Hoopa actually summoned smoke before he summoned the trio (to try and choke out the good Hoopa and his summons). And before summoning he shot a laser beam and threw one pokemon through a portal. So even using the scene where he summoned the creation trio that still wasnât his opening move. I just wanted to make that somewhat clear so even with the most gun happy assumption the creation trio wonât immediately come out and wreck.
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so i guess dante wins this then
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On top of this, Hoopa can resist its own mind hax / corruption.
When Hoopas sealed powers in the Prison Bottle tried possesisng confined Hoopa, Hoopa was able to resist it (with some minor help from Barza and Maryâs Arceus powers) enough that Hoopas powers split off and became Shadow Hoopa.
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Because Hoopa did not have mastery over its powers when doing this. Hoopa isnât like this anymore after the movie.
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Why would that mean he would open with creation trio. He can now chose who to summon, but heâs fighting a random guy that purposely makes himself seem less intimidating. There is zero reason for Hoopa to open with literal god, especially when yeeting a portal would work against a large chunk of opponents. Or open with literally any other legendary if the portal doesnât work. The evil Hoopa didnât even really open with the creation trio and when he summoned them it is very arguably a coincidence that he summoned them so early.
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Because true Hoopas character is completely unknown? We never get a real look at how a fully United Hoopa operates, the depictions of Hoopa are when itâs under very specific conditions that arenât universal.
Shadow Hoopa is explicitly an angry bloodlusted version of Hoopa thatâs angered for its powers being sealed away in the Prison Bottle and has no control over its powers.
While good Hoopa is strictly Hoopa Confined without its Unbound powers (since Ghris sealed them in the Prison Bottle) and has pre-established limits on its power.
The only part of Clash of Ages where we see an actual True Hoopa is when Hoopa and itâs corrupted Unbound powers have acceptance of each other (when Ash was possessed by the bottle) and reunite. But by point, it didnât need to do much of anything besides helping people escape the Space-Time distortion, so thereâs no real look on how Hoopa normally operates.
Shadow Hoopa is explicitly an angry bloodlusted version of Hoopa thatâs angered for its powers being sealed away in the Prison Bottle and has no control over its powers.
While good Hoopa is strictly Hoopa Confined without its Unbound powers (since Ghris sealed them in the Prison Bottle) and has pre-established limits on its power.
The only part of Clash of Ages where we see an actual True Hoopa is when Hoopa and itâs corrupted Unbound powers have acceptance of each other (when Ash was possessed by the bottle) and reunite. But by point, it didnât need to do much of anything besides helping people escape the Space-Time distortion, so thereâs no real look on how Hoopa normally operates.
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I'll go with B because that is more fun
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Dante has precog so he can dodge the portals. When it comes to the legendaries anything that isnât the creation trio gets wrecked trying to fight Dante due to concept manipulation (and many other things).
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No, we donât make characters unusable just because they donât have a set character on how they fight.
If thereâs no pre-established mindset, anything goes. We do this for characters that donât have a character all the time here.
If thereâs no pre-established mindset, anything goes. We do this for characters that donât have a character all the time here.
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I would go with B because thatâs what we do for every other character without know tactics.
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Well he summoned dialga and palkia who have infinite speed
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I mean we usually do âanything goesâ but I wasnât sure if that only applies to game characters or not.
If it applies to Hoopa here then saying he opens with the creation trio would be completely false and itâs very likely Dante defeats him then. As he just needs to fight random legendaries (many of which are 5-B to 6-B) or dodge portals.
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He did, but nothing about Hoopa says heâll open with that. So he has a 1/30 or so chance of doing so versus Dante doing anything after closing the distance (Thereâs no way Hoopa is wining a sword fight with Dante with his skill disadvantage).
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Hoopa generally summons multiple Legends at once.
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I'm saying that he can teleport Dante away to summon his legendary army since he can summon dialga and palkia who have infinite speed
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Yes, but Dante stomps a large majority of them. Many are 5-B or lower and the high 3-A opens generally donât have a ton going for them. Danteâs soul, fear, and conceptual hax would easily beat out a very large majority of them. So Hoopa opening with anything but the creation trio or a really specific legendary isnât going to do much of anything.
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Him teleporting Dante away requires him to get him into a portal. Due to his precognition Dante would dodge that (Also I think Dante has teleportation in this key)
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His army includes all the 2-A pokemon, wich would easily erase him in a 8v1
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You know Hoopa can summon other High 3-As too right?
And anyway, no, it wouldnât be wrong to say he summons the CT since nothing explicitly says it would be wrong. Anything would go.
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Anything dante does one shots hoopa. Skill isn't even a factor here.
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Oh I forgot, he still has a chance to teleport him even with precog since speed is equal
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I know, but which Pokémon he summons is random. So it could be high 3-A, it could not be. And many of the high 3-As get stomped by Dante.
âAnything goesâ doesnât mean they auto do their best, it means they do literally anything at complete random. Him summoning the CT has a 1/30 chance and thatâs only if he goes for summoning first.
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And we also canât assume he wouldnât either since nothing 100% says either or. Going by âchancesâ or likelihood for a character that has an anything goes mindset is silly to me, especially when the result hinges on what specific scenario you want to push for.
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Yes...he has that since his 19 year old self.
He also has intangibility which even Nelo Angelo(Vergil) can't bypass even though he has same NPI&CM1 stuff as him
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Well he summons multiple legendaries, he could stall with portals and the speed being equalised while the 2-A's arrive
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Plus if Hoopa summons multiple legendaries at once, then thereâs no reason to assume heâll specifically leave out the CT.
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The chances aren't really that large, Hoopa Summoning a large amount of Legends in one go is how I fights. And as we don't know its tactics we normally assume it goes with the best optionm aka summon Creation Trio, as theirs no evidence to contry. Chances don't mean much as every versus ever with a character with no standard tactics know makes it clear we assume they make the smartest in-character move.
Basically what Keeweed just said above is wrong and we have sooo many threads with their results on profiles and on the Top list that says otherwise.
Basically what Keeweed just said above is wrong and we have sooo many threads with their results on profiles and on the Top list that says otherwise.
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No we donât. I know for fact we donât assume they go with their best options. No thread with rpg characters has ever had that before and we always assume they go with something completely random. I can think of many fights where game characters have lost because they had a ton of win condition but we assumed they went with a random useless move instead majority of the time.
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I disagree. We only consider it âthe best optionâ because that option specifically is the best for this specific match. Going with anything you want isnât automatically considered âthe bestâ and even then, we have no information to say one way or the other on if he would or wouldnât do that.
So unless the matchup entirely is just decided as an incon and closed, we canât confirm or deny what would be done with 100% certainty.
Then see above. Or we get the standards changed to reflect what I said.
Thereâs no reason to argue against anything a character does if thereâs no already known mindset. Arguing chances and likely hoods is just another way of arguing they wouldnât do a certain thing when that goes against the point that we wouldnât 100% know they wouldnât do it. So to me at least, thatâs counter intuitive and basically pointless.
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Now your just reaching, we don't know his first move, but we still have a vague of how he fights from all the media he is in. Portals and Summoning.
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Once again whether he summons a PokĂ©mon that works or not, and whether he even goes for summoning at all is entirely random. There is no reason to assume one side is more right than the other because we are arguing over a complete unknown. So this shouldnât even be a thread.
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