Dante vs Hoopa

[Arceus0x]

he's a video game character he could lead with anything

yeah thats BFR

And that's where the bullcrap comes in

I am 99% sure that DMC has cinematics and through what I've seen throughout my prescense here, we usually base what one leads with based on them as otherwise like 80% of the matches in the wiki would be inconclusive gibberish.

 

[Arceus0x]

So unless I'm an idiot and there are no Cutsecenes or combat cutscenes in DMC, Dante has some leading move and it might not be time stop

 

[Sevil Natas]

And that's where the bullcrap comes in

I am 99% sure that DMC has cinematics and through what I've seen throughout my prescense here, we usually base what one leads with based on them as otherwise like 80% of the matches in the wiki would be inconclusive gibberish.

well then that guy has the same stuff, people are arguing he would win because he he could lead with the 2-A guys, also btw, about the BFR, dante has danger sense + TP + AP + he could see upcoming threats, he could easily dodge the sealing, from his profile the sealing only works by interacting, or knocking out someone, it probably doesnt work on dante

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Hasn't grace already started?

Either way this VS thread (as expected) has become a mess, can there be a "tl:dr" of the (viable) win-cons for both characters for those of us that don't want to dive into over 300+ messages?

Seriously tho that infinite pizzas win-con is legit then again Dante can just precog and exploit Hoopa's ultimate weakness to donuts, so it could go either way tbh.

 

[Arceus0x]

well then that guy has the same stuff, people are arguing he would win because he he could lead with the 2-A guys

Because that's what he did in the anime. The moment he got serious he spammed legendary pokemon which includes the 2-A trio

 

[Arceus0x]

Hasn't grace already started?

Either way this VS thread (as expected) has become a mess, can there be a "tl:dr" of the (viable) win-cons for both characters for those of us that don't want to dive into over 300+ messages?

Seriously tho that infinite pizzas win-con is legit then again Dante can just precog and exploit Hoopa's ultimate weakness to donuts, so it could go either way tbh.

Tbh i feel like grace should be at least halted as only now am i trying to get some more viable win cons. No proper supporter was called for pokemon either.

 

[Arceus0x]

well then that guy has the same stuff, people are arguing he would win because he he could lead with the 2-A guys, also btw, about the BFR, dante has danger sense + TP + AP + he could see upcoming threats, he could easily dodge the sealing, from his profile the sealing only works by interacting, or knocking out someone, it probably doesnt work on dante

Giratina's bfr is basic teleportation through what i remember.

 

[Sevil Natas]

Giratina's bfr is basic teleportation through what i remember.

well dante resists being forcefully teleported so

 

[Arceus0x]

Y'all know what? I'mma just call Kukui here. He's the 2-A expert not me. He has the necessary info.

 

[Delta333]

Y'all know what? I'mma just call Kukui here. He's the 2-A expert not me. He has the necessary info.

Actually he is already in this thread,but he didn't give any further arguments

 

[Arceus0x]

Actually he is already in this thread,but he didn't give any further arguments

Yeah that is the problem. He commented like a few times and either got scared of the clusterheck this became or is asleep.

Anyways I'd like a chance for me to call him and hear his arguments. If he submits then i probably also will.

 

[Sevil Natas]

Otherwise the CT resist space time manipulation, time stop included.

btw, low tier demons also resist all of that, they still get affected by dante

 

[Ballsdeep69]

5 games,4 novels and 2 manga

don't forget the anime.

 

[Arceus0x]

All I'm asking is some time to get proper supporters to reply as the whole thread was basically the entire supporters of DMC vs a few arguments from kukui and Regice spamming nonsense madder than the shiz the actual regice spits

 

[Delta333]

All I'm asking is some time to get proper supporters to reply as the whole thread was basically the entire supporters of DMC vs a few arguments from kukui and Regice spamming nonsense madder than the shiz the actual regice spits

I think you should call Strym (who is already here lol) since he is the one who nominates Hoopa in this list

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually now that I think about it, given that Hoopas BFR was able to forcefully summon forth the CT and other High 3-A legends, his BFR is able to operate at infinite speeds.

What evidence does Dante have of its BFR being able to perceive that?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Im also failing to see how "resistance to BFR" is good enough here when Hoopas BFR is 2-A in range, could forcefully drag forth 3 2-As and can reach 4-D areas.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually he is already in this thread,but he didn't give any further arguments

Arceus is right btw. Most of my attention here was taken up by the whole "Hoopa would or wouldnt summon the CT" clusterfuck from before. Did not get to actually argument much in this.

 

[Ballsdeep69]

What about the whole thing of hoopa not having a in-character and the creation of this thread?
https://vsbattles.com/threads/characters-without-character-how-do-we-treat-them-on-this-site.123824/

 

[Sevil Natas]

Im also failing to see how "resistance to BFR" is good enough here when Hoopas BFR is 2-A in range, could forcefully drag forth 3 2-As and can reach 4-D areas.

that is just range, that would be a problem if it works on dante, but not if he resists it, dante just resists being forcefully teleported into somewhere else by some one like melphas, who could send to people to different dimensions

(not to mention their portals which dante can dodge with danger sense)

 

[Arceus0x]

that is just range, that would be a problem if it works on dante, but not if he resists it, dante just resists being forcefully teleported into somewhere else by some one like melphas, who could send to people to different dimensions

Thing is on like half of abilities which are hax, range is everything.

Actually now that i think about it Hoopa may be able to overpower Dante's resistance to Mind manip using that.

Mind manipulation isn't based on dimensions but rather on the amount you can control, the size of what you can control, it's range and thus potency. 4D can have basic range too. It'd still be more potent than any type of 3D mind control but if we are comparing a mind control which can control a planet worth whilst on a 4D potency and a 2-A mind control with a 4D potency then the latter would win.
In this case, Palkia, Dialga and Giratina are both 2-A in actual non-avatar size and the 2-A versions is what Hoopa controlled.

In any case i may be wrong and if i am then I'd like to be corrected... By someone who is actually a prominent and knowledgeable member here that is.

 

[Delta333]

We don't treat potency of BFR via range here,since there is no reason for that and ability page doesn't say so

 

[Arceus0x]

We don't treat potency of BFR via range here,since there is no reason for that and ability page doesn't say so

1. I am talking about mind control

2. It isn't just bfr it is sealing as well which can restrict a 2-A being

 

[Sevil Natas]

Thing is on like half of abilities which are hax, range is everything.

Actually now that i think about it Hoopa may be able to overpower Dante's resistance to Mind manip using that.

Mind manipulation isn't based on dimensions but rather on the amount you can control, the size of what you can control, it's range and thus potency. 4D can have basic range too. It'd still be more potent than any type of 3D mind control but if we are comparing a mind control which can control a planet worth whilst on a 4D potency and a 2-A mind control with a 4D potency then the latter would win.
In this case, Palkia, Dialga and Giratina are both 2-A in actual non-avatar size and the 2-A versions is what Hoopa controlled.

In any case i may be wrong and if i am then I'd like to be corrected... By someone who is actually a prominent and knowledgeable member here that is.

the amount of people you'd be mind haxing in both scenarios are the same number IE uncountably infnite, 4D Is just 4D, its the same, idk why affecting multiple timelines worth of minds is somehow superior than affecting 1, when the latter has as much minds to control as the former, but i digress, they cant affect dantes mind anyway, its too abstract for them, i think

 

[Sevil Natas]

2. It isn't just bfr it is sealing as well which can restrict a 2-A being

sealings potency shouldnt be measured like that, regardless of the tier they're sealing sealing is just sealing, and there's still no proof that he starts out with the CTs everytime, from the posts above, i've got that he does the opposite most of the time, also like hoopa, dante has no standard tactic, he could start with anything, the difference here is that everything dante does wins him the fight, while the same cannot be said about hoopa

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

that is just range, that would be a problem if it works on dante, but not if he resists it, dante just resists being forcefully teleported into somewhere else by some one like melphas, who could send to people to different dimensions

And I fail to see how this is good enough resistance to this kind of BFR when, even if its "just range", is better range than what Dante has dealt with.

Another factor that I just now realized here is that Dialga, who is literally time itself, was incapable of avoiding Hoopa's rings as well. Which should be even more reason for Dante's precognition or any kind of danger sense to be rendered useless against Hoopa.

 

[Sevil Natas]

And I fail to see how this is good enough resistance to this kind of BFR when, even if its "just range", is better range than what Dante has dealt with.

range =/= potency, you cant forcefully teleport dante to a place unless the one doing the hax is higher dimensional and/or qualitatively superior(5D or higher), even if the place he's teleporting to is very big, that is irrelevant to someone who resists being teleported to begin with, and there's still no proof he starts with anything of this, dante just has to tag him once and he's done, he could do that via time stop, going intangilble, or just teleporting

Another factor that I just now realized here is that Dialga, who is literally time itself, was incapable of avoiding Hoopa's rings as well. Which should be even more reason for Dante's precognition or any kind of danger sense to be rendered useless against Hoopa.

dante danger sense & instinctive reactions works on Type 4 acausals who are outside the flow of time

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

Going by the profiles, none of the pokemon characters have resistance to CM1

 

[Keeweed]

I haven’t read the current page yet. But I still don’t see why people are arguing Hoopa would lead with the 2-As. Currently the thread on characters like Hoopa has it that we have zero clue what he’ll do. If we base him off his good and corrupted sides (who technically aren’t him) his summons are entirely random. Sure he summons a lot but the chances he gets a legendary Dante can’t just one hit with CM is very unlikely.

 

[Arceus0x]

I haven’t read the current page yet. But I still don’t see why people are arguing Hoopa would lead with the 2-As. Currently the thread on characters like Hoopa has it that we have zero clue what he’ll do. If we base him off his good and corrupted sides (who technically aren’t him) his summons are entirely random. Sure he summons a lot but the chances he gets a legendary Dante can’t just one hit with CM is very unlikely.

The only actions we saw were from the corrupted side as the good side was in base form and not unbound and thus was weaker and didn't mind manip.

The unbound version summoned legendaries as the first thing the moment it got serious

 

[Keeweed]

Actually I forgot to say. Dante’s speed amps shouldn’t be allowed here. He’s the slower character. I hate that people keep trying to push the rule to be a ‘unfair’ amp. No amp should be allowed because it’s just dumb. It means the slower character is winning due to being faster, see how that makes zero sense.

 

[Keeweed]

The only actions we saw were from the corrupted side as the good side was in base form and not unbound and thus was weaker and didn't mind manip.

The unbound version summoned legendaries as the first thing the moment it got serious

Yes he summons legendaries. I said he summons legendaries. But we don’t know which legendaries. He doesn’t summon literally all of them. Heck the end of the movie actually gives him a limit since if he summons to many reality falls apart and everyone dies (if I remember that part correctly, I’ll go recheck)

 

[Sevil Natas]

Actually I forgot to say. Dante’s speed amps shouldn’t be allowed here. He’s the slower character. I hate that people keep trying to push the rule to be a ‘unfair’ amp. No amp should be allowed because it’s just dumb. It means the slower character is winning due to being faster, see how that makes zero sense.

not sure about the specific rules for that, but i heard somewhere that speed amps for slower characters in speed equalised matches are allowed as long as they dont blitz, i didnt say this btw, i just heard thats the way it works

 

[Delta333]

Rule allows speed amp in every match tho

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve heard conflicting reports, but I really need to make a thread to make that rule tighter, if it isn’t. A slower character shouldn’t be winning due to speed.

Also I rewatched the movie (not the whole thing obviously), and yeah Hoopa can’t even spam every legendary because he’ll kill himself if he does.

 

[Arceus0x]

I’ve heard conflicting reports, but I really need to make a thread to make that rule tighter, if it isn’t. A slower character shouldn’t be winning due to speed.

Also I rewatched the movie (not the whole thing obviously), and yeah Hoopa can’t even spam every legendary because he’ll kill himself if he does.

His beginning legendaries (the ones he summons first) are Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina. Saying that he won't lead with them despite it being the only example of a leading move he has is just weird

 

[Keeweed]

1) Different Hoopa then the one we are using, 2) He summoned different legendaries earlier in the movie, he summons completely random legendaries throughout the rest of the movie, and he summoned smoke before he summoned the trio within that very scene.

Yes that time he summoned the trio but based off every other time he summons that was very likely a coincidence. Plus, again, that was a corrupted evil Hoopa. If there is any Hoopa the ending Hoopa should be compared to it would be the good Hoopa, who was even more random with summoning then the evil Hoopa.

 

[Arceus0x]

1) Different Hoopa then the one we are using, 2) He summoned different legendaries earlier in the movie, he summons completely random legendaries throughout the rest of the movie, and he summoned smoke before he summoned the trio within that very scene.

Yes that time he summoned the trio but based off every other time he summons that was very likely a coincidence. Plus, again, that was a corrupted evil Hoopa. If there is any Hoopa the ending Hoopa should be compared to it would be the good Hoopa, who was even more random with summoning then the evil Hoopa.

Yes that was corrupted hoopa but that does not mean that a hoopa willing to kill wouldn't summon the same pokemon.
The whole thing about the pokemon being random is practically headcanon as it is pretty obvious that hoopa wasn't going to summon the same pokemon twice. Also the sequence where hoopa summoned the creation trio was specifically highlighted meaning that hoopa uses that move consciously as it specifically wastes serious energy on that

 

[Keeweed]

I mean Hoopa never summons a Pokémon that would be specifically useful for a scenario. He never throws a countering legendary at the other legendaries, both Hoopa’s just summoned whatever legendary came to the writer’s mind.

If we really are going to super focus on that one scene then we can’t forgot all the non summoning creation trio stuff he also did in that scene. Like throw a portal a short while before hand, fire a laser, and summon smoke. Even within that scene he didn’t open with the creation trio and he didn’t do that earlier either.

Hoopa being mad or going for the kill wouldn’t be anywhere close to him being an evil corrupted being. It’s like saying an angry dog would act like a dog that had rabies.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Voting Dante. While i will not enter the discussion of leading hax.

I believe Dante's preocg+ sensing and haxes will give him the win on majority of the outcomes. While Hoopa will be depending on the CT to have some wincon. Dante can avoid 2-A AP from the CT throught untouchable and since i didn't find any resistance to CM1 on CT's profiles, this allows dante to kill or atleast temporarily stop the CT. So by no means this turns into a stomp for Hoopa when CT are summoned.