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I mean, Yuri isn't that well-versed in calcs and numbers. He's basically ignoring that Izuru is above a scaling not above High 8-C, but High 8-C+, that's why I've purposed the rating.
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Danganronpa: Reaching 8-B
- Thread starter StrymULTRA
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I disagree with the OP's scaling of 2 mechs as that would translate to skill, not so much AP.
This would work better if approach from this angle, since Kotoko is upscaled by stronger characters. From memory, there is a chain.
Holding off on agreeing for now tho.
This would work better if approach from this angle, since Kotoko is upscaled by stronger characters. From memory, there is a chain.
Holding off on agreeing for now tho.
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- #43
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Does Genocider = baseline? I thought Genocider beat the Mech that was baseline?
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Genocider definitely beat the mecha and deflected it's blows
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- #46
She's equal as she could physically clash with the mecha on par terms. However, it was Komaru the one that finished it with the big Truth gun.
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Ah.
While I don’t agree with Quas about it being not logical for them to enter the next tier by being stronger if they have a sizable scaling chain in between, I’m uncertain if said scaling is enough to close the gap.
While I don’t agree with Quas about it being not logical for them to enter the next tier by being stronger if they have a sizable scaling chain in between, I’m uncertain if said scaling is enough to close the gap.
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- #48
I mean. Izuru has an higher gap of power comparated to the rest of the verse than Kenshiro has comparated to Kotoko. This is supported from also every feat he did, from intelligence to physicals to combat, with literally no effort nor motivation. I think that's enough to make him baseline 8-B, likely far higher.
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But Kenshiro can’t be used in Izuru’s scaling cause Kenshiro didn’t go to Hope’s Peak.
Based on?
Based on?
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- #50
Given that HPA kinda of make researches around talents across the world and literally created Izuru to be the peak of human evolution, he should be above Kenshiro too.
His position in the verse. He literally stomps every character at their own talent with 0 talent nor motivation. Other than being implied to easily be able to kill Junko despite her durability in DR3. This is also proved at him one shotting Mukuro with not even a punch, but a simple arm movement, something that's hella beyond even Sakura levels.
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Could I see a scan? Not that I don't believe, I just don't remember that detail.
Tbf, Kenshiro wasn't said to have a talent. What we know is that Sakura states he is stronger than her but I don't think she said it was because it was out of talent.
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- #52
Seems like I misremember, it says across the country (10:24). Tho is weird because Sonia was choosen despite coming from an European country. However, Kenshiro is japanese as well for kinda obvious reasons, so it doesn't discard my point.
Sakura in her FTE claimed that Kenshiro is her rival and the reason she got the title was because of Kenshiro getting the illness. And Sakura gained her Ultimate Martial Artist because she not only won a tournament despite being a girl, but she even got undefeated in 400 fights in a row (1:44). And yet Kenshiro is the only one she can't surpass in a fair fight, needing him to be ill in order to get stronger than him. I'm pretty sure they're perfectly aware of such a detail.
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They're already this tier. This whole discussion was about them becoming 8-B. And this discussion now is about Izuru/Hajime post fusion being THE ONLY 8-B OF THE VERSE AND BEING JUST >= BASELINE DUE OF HIM BEING THE GOD TIER OF THE VERSE. No offense, but being still High 8-C despite you completely dwarf the rest of the characters who have a scaling chain above baseline High 8-C+ is completely insulting how's he portrayed in the verse comparated to the others and how his powers are portrayed as well.
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I'm sorry, but from what I've heard this does not qualify for upscaling unless there is a multiplier involve.
We do not upscale people from a 1.7X gaps, such a gap is too large for upscaling to 8-B.
I've seen some staff claim that even a 1.5X gap is too large for upscaling, even in the case of a one shot.
Is there an actual multiplier being presented here?
We do not upscale people from a 1.7X gaps, such a gap is too large for upscaling to 8-B.
I've seen some staff claim that even a 1.5X gap is too large for upscaling, even in the case of a one shot.
Is there an actual multiplier being presented here?
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- #59
This is only about Izuru now.
Izuru is >>> Kenshiro, who is > Sakura, who is >> Base Mukuro, who is = Genocider Syo, who's baseline High 8-C+.
And >> already means that is casually much above, and >>> means that it completely dwarfs and sees it as basically garbage. And it's proven from the feats I've shown, as he can one shot Junko, who has a durability high enough to tank stuff which easily one shots baseline High 8-C+ characters like Mondoz or him one shotting Mukuro with a simple arm movement, not even a punch, with all of this being with no motivation nor effort in it at all.
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If there is no multiplier, then I'm sorry, but there will be no upscaling here.
Also: You should provide scans of what you say.
Also: You should provide scans of what you say.
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- #61
This whole thread is full of it. Did you even read it? Plus, as already pointed out, dwarfing a whole scaling chain above baseline High 8-C+ without efforts at all should qualify because all the context around it too.
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No it does not qualify for upscaling, we do not upscaling based on such things because one shots vary in fiction.
In one fiction, a character becoming 10X stronger doesn't one shot his opponent who was equal to his base.
Yet in another fiction, a 2X increase was enough to one shot someone who was equal to his base.
At least High 8-C is the best we can give, unless we're given an actual multiplier, or if the results are close to the next tier.
If the feat was 10 Tons, then upscaling would be possible.
In one fiction, a character becoming 10X stronger doesn't one shot his opponent who was equal to his base.
Yet in another fiction, a 2X increase was enough to one shot someone who was equal to his base.
At least High 8-C is the best we can give, unless we're given an actual multiplier, or if the results are close to the next tier.
If the feat was 10 Tons, then upscaling would be possible.
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- #63
How to take stuff without context... So now being treated as basically unreachable from a scaling chain which has even casual overpowering in it is not enough. Makes total ******* sense my dude, really. Context, common sense and portayal of a character around them aren't enough now...
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I'm not trying to offended you, so please try and calm down.
I'm stating the truth, and this wiki does not accepted upscaling from a gap of 6.5 Tons to 11 Tons. The gap is seen as too large, and as such only At least High 8-C is the best you can get here. Just look at this thread, upscaling was seen as impossible.
I'm stating the truth, and this wiki does not accepted upscaling from a gap of 6.5 Tons to 11 Tons. The gap is seen as too large, and as such only At least High 8-C is the best you can get here. Just look at this thread, upscaling was seen as impossible.
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- #65
This is a whole different situation.
Izuru himself completely dwarfs all the rest of the characters without even trying to do so.
Healthy Kenshiro > Sakura > Ill Kenshiro
Ill Kenshiro is already >> Singular members of Warriors of Hope. This includes Monaca, who is > regular members singularly, each of them being = Genocider Syo, who is baseline.
Sakura is stronger than Ill Kenshiro, and she's constantly training to get stronger than Healthy Kenshro. And Sakura can casually overpower Genocider Syo.
So we got:
Healthy Kenshiro > Sakura > Ill Kenshiro > Monaca Towa > Kotoko = Genocider Syo = Baseline High 8-C+.
And Izuru completely dwarfs said scaling chain. I think it's a bit bigger than the Superman one, without being based on a single "lol weakened". Plus, the whole context around the Ultimate Hope itself should make him be solidly 8-B, given that is unreachable from every other character in the series. Scans are shown already here and in the profiles of the characters here.
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Let me give you the benefited of the doubt here.
Put down a scaling chain without > these pointless symbols. Instead post the feats/scaling of these characters in this thread, so I may see them myself.
Everything, from Baseline High 8-C+ to Izuru.
Put down a scaling chain without > these pointless symbols. Instead post the feats/scaling of these characters in this thread, so I may see them myself.
Everything, from Baseline High 8-C+ to Izuru.
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Ok. Fine.
Baseline High 8-C+: Reached from Big Bang Monokuma, who is above Giant Monokuma, who has a 6.01 Tons feat in the profile. Genocider Syo can equally fight it physically, same against each Warriors of Hope mech (Profiles are these: 1, 2, 3 and 4) in a 1v1 fight.
Monaca Towa: Above Baseline as her Mech is the merged form of all the other 4 ones.
Ill Kenshiro: As already pointed out in OP, every Warrior of Hope is afraid of fighting him even with mechs, purposing as the only way to defeat him as being at least two of them and dodge his blows until he's tired.
Sakura Ogami: As already said in this thread, she's above Ill Kenshiro. In her profile is said that she could easily overpower Genocider Syo and Base Mukuro Ikusaba in the same way in a 1v1 match. Mukuro needs her weapons to even stand a chance against Sakura. Battle Trance Mukuro, however, can fight on par against Sakura, even without weapons, supporting Sakura being a whole different level from baseline unlike Ill Kenshiro.
Healthy Kenshiro: Previously was officially the strongest man alive on the Earth. Sakura surpassed him only because he got ill, and she was still training to surpass Kenshiro even in his healthy state.
Izuru Kamakura: As a short summary about him from this thread is simply that he was built from the Hope's Peak Accademy (HPA) as the Ultimate Hope, the pinnacle of humanity with all the perfected talents, which were studied across all the country (and possibly all the Earth, given that Sonia Nevermind is a selected student there and destroying the HPA caused despair across all the planet. This research must have involved healthy Kenshiro too, given his relationships with Sakura and Ultimate Martial Artists like her exceed the other fighters physically due to their immensely harder training, and Izuru, who has several feats of casually stomping other Ultimate students at their own talent, should be the same with the other Ultimate Martial Artists, with himself stating to easily beating Sakura in a fight in a spin-off game (which isn't canon, but still kinda reflects everything I said until now). Other feats are him completely stomping Junko Enoshima with just a random kick while not even moving from his bed (and Junko has a pretty high dura in High 8-C+, as she can tank stuff who can one shot baselines like Mondo Owada) or defeating Mukuro with not even a punch, but just a casual arm movement against her which someone wouldn't expect as an offensive action. And all of this without even trying, efforts and motivation at all.
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Alright... Before I go on to the scaling, I need to start with the calc itself, because there might be a problem here.
Why is it assumed that Giant Monokuma is causing the explosion with the force of its punch? The center of the blast is lower than Monokuma's fist, which clearly implies that something inside of the building detonated when he punched it. Not that the force of his punch was so powerful that it produce an explosion.
Which doesn't translate to High 8-C AP, at best that is High 8-C durability since the blast didn't harm it.
Is there any feats of Syo causing actual damage to the Monokuma?
Why is it assumed that Giant Monokuma is causing the explosion with the force of its punch? The center of the blast is lower than Monokuma's fist, which clearly implies that something inside of the building detonated when he punched it. Not that the force of his punch was so powerful that it produce an explosion.
Which doesn't translate to High 8-C AP, at best that is High 8-C durability since the blast didn't harm it.
Is there any feats of Syo causing actual damage to the Monokuma?
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AP = Durability there given that in Danganronpa verse Makoto and Komaru do such, and Big Bang Monokuma is the strongest version of the Monokuma Units, meaning that it's superior to that Monokuma, as already pointed in this other thread (Junko however is an exception).
Not only that, but pushed its arm back so hard that it was forced to retreat.
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AP doesn't equal Durability without reason, has the Big Bang Monokuma shown to hurt itself?
It's possible to be a Stone Wall.
It's possible to be a Stone Wall.
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Lore-wise it's one of the strongest Units and Big Bang Monokuma already is shown to be able to one-shot hundreds of regular units at once, who are Tier 9, thus supports it scaling from its own durability like other characters do. Komaru Naegi and other wielders of the Hacking Gun like Byakuya Togami or Kanon Nakajima, with the Hacking Gun are able to harm Big Bang Monokuma. Syo is lore-wise equal to her as is an alternative to the Hacking Gun in the game and they fight alongside each other in Danganronpa 3, implying even more that Hacking Gun and Syo are in the same ballpark of power. And Big Bang can fight against Syo as well.
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I don't see or understand how you believe that supports its physical attacks to its Dura, regular units are far smaller than Big Bang Monokuma and are vastly weaker in terms of durability. Can you provide any scans of BBM harming itself with its physical strikes, or harming a Giant Monokuma?
Hacking Gun does not scale to BBM's durability, it's hacking, it does not cause physical damage through force. It's stated to shoot program codes via electromagnetic waves.
Hacking Gun does not scale to BBM's durability, it's hacking, it does not cause physical damage through force. It's stated to shoot program codes via electromagnetic waves.
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What are you quoting?
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Given we use anime adaptations to clarify stuff happened in og source (like some of our Jojo calcs), in anime is actually shown to be the one causing the explosion with its punch. Sorry but I remembered about it just now.
Here's an evidence about both BBM harming itself and Hacking Gun being able to overpower BBM physical attacks.
Zencha9
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my apolgies i thought you were somewhat fimiliar with the verse
anyways i wasn't quoting anything i just find it weird how we don't scale the electromagnetic waves the gun shoots despite hurting humans
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The anime contradicts the main source, it is impossible for that Giant Monokuma to produce the explosion with the force of its punch in the game version. The game will take priority over the anime. Since we can see the feat in the game, we take the game over the anime.
I don't see the BBM harming itself with its own physical strikes, and that's just hacking the sphere back into the BBM. Not physically pushing it back, especially when that thing seems to float and follow Komaru. Also that attack seems to hit a weak point in the eye.
I don't see the BBM harming itself with its own physical strikes, and that's just hacking the sphere back into the BBM. Not physically pushing it back, especially when that thing seems to float and follow Komaru. Also that attack seems to hit a weak point in the eye.
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The game doesn't contradict the anime. It's a static image. Your own headcanon is not only unsupported but even contradicted from another official source.
1) All its attacks are equal, just seeing the whole fight is enough as proof.
2) You kinda indirectly conceded as you literally said it could tank one of its attacks hitting its weak spot.
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I didn't conceded anything, I said I don't see it physically hurting itself with its own attack.
The anime does contradict it, the fist is above the explosion in the game. While it doesn't in the anime, it is dead center. They don't match up and cannot be scaled to each other.
A weak point is less durable than the main body, it doesn't scale to the High 8-C calc. The body is vastly superior, considering they cannot do anything to it unless they hack or throw back that ball thing into the weak point. Which is more fragile than the main body.
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