Damage Scaling on Sonic's profile

[Jinsye]

Still doesn't fit under multiplier standards. Level of power does not = a multiplier

 

[omegabronic]

Still doesn't fit under multiplier standards. Level of power does not = a multiplier

what "level of power"? it has 3 stages of charge, if you charge up 3 times then it would at bare minimum be 3 times higher then 1 charge, that is only logical

 

[SeijiSetto]

In the case of the spindash I would argue the multiplier is consistent, the spin dash and boost have always been portrayed as blitzing the opposition, it’s just now there’s a number attached.

Game Sonic's spindash calc isn't relevant here since it comes from a calc using the Sonic Prime show, not a game.. You could have made that argument with the boost since it came from Unleashed's in-game SPD counter but now it's just an unquantifiably higher speed amp than the Spin Dash due to being superior.

 

[JJSliderman]

I’m not sure what this entails, are you saying you agree or disagree with the spindash multiplier being fine.

 

[SeijiSetto]

I’m not sure what this entails, are you saying you agree or disagree with the spindash multiplier being fine.

I'm saying it's already been accepted, and it isn't up for contention at all in this thread. This thread is talking about using game statistics to put multipliers on AP. The spindash calc is not from a game. Therefore, it's not relevant to be spoken about here.

 

[omegabronic]

I’m not sure what this entails, are you saying you agree or disagree with the spindash multiplier being fine.

this thread is not about that so, not really relevant

 

[Jinsye]

what "level of power"? it has 3 stages of charge, if you charge up 3 times then it would at bare minimum be 3 times higher then 1 charge, that is only logical

No, that's you pulling your numbers that aren't quantified. As stated in the Multipliers page:

That means, for example, that if a verse has powerlevels or statistics, the doubling of a statistic or power level should not be concluded to correspond to the power of the character doubling, unless it is clearly specified to work that way.

This clearly is not what we accept. The level of charge would fall under the same category, you can't just slap random numbers on things now.

 

[omegabronic]

No, that's you pulling your numbers that aren't quantified. As stated in the Multipliers page:



This clearly is not what we accept. The level of charge would fall under the same category, you can't just slap random numbers on things now.

I am not using power levels or statistics, if there is 3 things, and i use these 3 things at once, then it is one of these things times 3, i don't see how the multiplier page contradicts the logic here

 

[Theuser789]

I hate to say it, but I also agree with this thread. Never liked the constant stream of multipliers that was happening recently.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Agree.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm neutral over this for now

 

[Jinsye]

I am not using power levels or statistics, if there is 3 things, and i use these 3 things at once, then it is one of these things times 3, i don't see how the multiplier page contradicts the logic here

That's not how multihits works irl and "three stages of charge" does not imply that you are adding 1 to the multiplier for every charge. This is not a reliable statement.

 

[omegabronic]

That's not how multihits works irl

It is if i combined them all in one hit

and "three stages of charge" does not imply that you are adding 1 to the multiplier for every charge.

And why not? It seems pretty logical to me, if one charge = 1 above the non charged value, then 3 charges logically = 3 since it 3 charged combined, explain hiw is this logic wrong please

This is not a reliable statement.

Don't see why not

 

[ShakeResounding]

Forgot to mention, but I agree with removing the Lost World health bar stuff. Though considering one of the clips in Sonic's profile shows him two-shotting Zazz with it (iirc you'd usually need 5-6 hits), it should simply be labelled as "higher" and we call it a day.

 

[Eseseso]

Jesus, with all the multipliers that broke this rule that Sonic has on his page, it's gonna be messy removing the dozen or so bad ones.

Though IMO the 1.2x one that puts his 4-A+ self at 3-C with this one attack is fine since the description of the attack literally says it's a 1.2x multiplier.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yes, but since the Lost World multiplier and potentially the Frontiers one are being axed, I imagine it would just go down to MSS or maybe MSS+ at most.

FHA was also never 5x, it was more like 4.5.

 

[Eseseso]

Yes, but since the Lost World multiplier and potentially the Frontiers one are being axed, I imagine it would just go down to MSS or maybe MSS+ at most.

I was just saying that, regardless of tier change, the multiplier itself of 1.2x is fine to keep.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Jesus, with all the multipliers that broke this rule that Sonic has on his page, it's gonna be messy removing the dozen or so bad ones.

DOZEN?! Let's not make a mountain out of an anthill, I don't think we even have half that much in the profiles as we speak.

What IS a big deal is 4-C being removed and replaced with Low 4-C once again, as the Zeti would no longer have Stonewall Dura, and thus 4-C goes with it.

 

[JJSliderman]

Well the list rn of accepted and incoming strength boosts consists of

-Power cores
-Egg Hawk Accelerated Development
-Team Blast 30x
-E.G.G. station and Advance 2 Accelerated development (2x for each)
-Frontiers 4x boost
-Focused Homing Attack 5x boost
-Phantom Rush 1.2x boost

At least as far as I can remember.

 

[Theuser789]

Power Cores should remain because of IDW

 

[LaserPrecision]

I can understand permanent stat increases, but from what I recall, temporary amps have precedent of being accepted widely based off of only a calculation. Such as Classic Mega Man who has a 4x amp with speed gear via a calc. So to some level it must be acceptable. Maybe there's exceptions or some calcs are allowed for multipliers. Like buffs that very visibly amp the user (Cuz in Mega Man's case, the enemies essentially slow to a crawl)?

I would like clarification here regarding this comment

 

[omegabronic]

I would like clarification here regarding this comment

Pherhaps you could open a calculation discussion thread asking about it

 

[LaserPrecision]

I suppose I could. Though I figured I'd get an opinion here first.

 

[Hiryu-Z]

Neutral, leaning towards agreeing, with some exceptions like the Phantom Rush

 

[ShakeResounding]

I suppose I could. Though I figured I'd get an opinion here first.

Ngl you're probably not gonna get it, I doubt there are many Mega Man supporters snooping around in Sonic threads that can elaborate.

It'd probably be best to get a thread for answers, which could be used for future instances.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Agree. I guess it makes sense, without an explicit statement a la Phantom Rush it's all just extrapolating from game stats which isn't strong enough evidence for a multiplier.

 

[omegabronic]

Agree. I guess it makes sense, without an explicit statement a la Phantom Rush it's all just extrapolating from game stats which isn't strong enough evidence for a multiplier.

If there is a statement that suports the game stats, would it be usable?

 

[SeijiSetto]

If there is a statement that suports the game stats, would it be usable?

Yeah. AFAIK for "lower" multipliers (i.e under 100), all you need is an explicit statement. If it's higher (like GoH's 250,000x) it needs a statement and a clear showing that displays the multiplier. For example, in that series the MC multiplied his power by 250k and instantly stomped his opponent's 2 quadrillion clones with ease.

 

[JJSliderman]

Bump

 

[JJSliderman]

Bump

 

[JJSliderman]

Bump

 

[JJSliderman]

Bump

 

[JJSliderman]

Bump

 

[JJSliderman]

Bump

 

[Nierre]

So how would this be implemented on the profile? How would his profile look like with the changes?

 

[SeijiSetto]

So how would this be implemented on the profile? How would his profile look like with the changes?

All the tier jumps and AP multipliers that come from - for example - doing X times more damage with the same attack would be reverted, and instead would just be "higher".

 

[LaserPrecision]

All the tier jumps and AP multipliers that come from - for example - doing X times more damage with the same attack would be reverted, and instead would just be "higher".

Which seems kinda weird in the case of Frontiers were Sonic is verbatim stated to get stronger in the game and thus do more damage. Like how would we write that on the profile? "Higher when stronger"? I think Frontiers should be exempt from this, but I guess I'd need to make another thread questioning if its valid for scaling.

 

[Eseseso]

higher with Arrow of Light (The Arrow of Light does more damage than the Shield of Light, which uses Solaris own attacks against it)

This would be removed, correct?

 

[Jinsye]

Which seems kinda weird in the case of Frontiers were Sonic is verbatim stated to get stronger in the game and thus do more damage. Like how would we write that on the profile? "Higher when stronger"? I think Frontiers should be exempt from this, but I guess I'd need to make another thread questioning if its valid for scaling.

Frontiers just becomes his new base, no?

 

[LaserPrecision]

Frontiers just becomes his new base, no?

Yeah, tho I don't think people are gonna wanna make a key for that. I've brought up the idea of more keys for Modern Sonic. It doesn't usually bode too well. I will ask if damage scaling is acceptable in this case tho in another thread. It seems weird that it wouldn't. I can get the focused homing attack thing tho.