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Dabura scaled up to SPC instead of PC.

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WarriorofMite

WarriorofMite

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I was wondering why Dabura wasn't scaled to Super Perfect Cell instead of Perfect Cell. While Goku refers to him as just Cell as a blanket statement. The reason I bring this up is that it doesn't seem possible for Dabura to be just PC level based on the following combinations:

If Gohan was SS and Dabura was PC level in power: Dabura stomps him.
If Gohan was SS2 and Dabura was PC level in power: Gohan stomps him.
If Gohan was SS and Dabura was SPC level in power: Dabura stomps him.
If Gohan was SS2 and Dabura was SPC level in power: They fight evenly. Which is what happened.

I don't see any other reason to think that Dabura shouldn't be SPC level in power and scale to him.
 
Thelastmlg said:
Gohan was weaker than his cell saga self there, he shouldn't scale.
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He was indeed weaker but the result is the same. If he was a weak SS1, he gets stomped, if he was a weak SS2 he fights evenly. Which is what happened. A SS tier Gohan isn't beating any version of PC and up. Especially a weak one. A weak SS2 however, would still beat PC or SPC, which also happened after he claimed his ki was < half. So it can only be that weak SS2 Gohan = SPC = Dabura.
 
WarriorofMite said:
I was wondering why Dabura wasn't scaled to Super Perfect Cell instead of Perfect Cell. While Goku refers to him as just Cell as a blanket statement. The reason I bring this up is that it doesn't seem possible for Dabura to be just PC level based on the following combinations:

If Gohan was SS and Dabura was PC level in power: Dabura stomps him.
If Gohan was SS2 and Dabura was PC level in power: Gohan stomps him.
If Gohan was SS and Dabura was SPC level in power: Dabura stomps him.
If Gohan was SS2 and Dabura was SPC level in power: They fight evenly. Which is what happened.

I don't see any other reason to think that Dabura shouldn't be SPC level in power and scale to him.
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Gohan was stated to be weaker than his previous self, so, he cant really scale
 
There is also the possibility that Gohan was actually comparable to Cell as a Super Saiyan and simply did not display this amount of power because he actively refused to fight back against Cell which is actually backed up by the El Manga Legendario and further strengthened by the fact that a Super Saiyan Gohan whose power had stagnated since the Cell Games was able to keep up with Dabura who's supposed to be equal to Perfect Cell.

But, I don't really like to dabble in Dragon Ball powerscaling.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
There is also the possibility that Gohan was actually comparable to Cell as a Super Saiyan and simply did not display this amount of power because he actively refused to fight back against Cell which is actually backed up by the El Manga Legendario and further strengthened by the fact that a Super Saiyan Gohan whose power had stagnated since the Cell Games was able to keep up with Dabura who's supposed to be equal to Perfect Cell.

But, I don't really like to dabble in Dragon Ball powerscaling.
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Gohan was not comparable to Cell as a SS. We know this as Goku was dead even with PC while he was suppressed. After Gohan turned into SS2 Cell let everyone know he was holding back the whole time. PC was stronger than MSS Gohan the whole time and Goku even said he would need to use his hidden power to defeat Cell. Even Goku knew Gohan wasn't beating Cell with just SS.

Bernkastelll said:
Gohan was stated to be weaker than his previous self, so, he cant really scale
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Him being weaker doesn't change anything. My post above yours addresses it. It just makes the stomps even harder.
 
You know dabura scaling to SPC and PC isn't different. Gohan was weaker and was in SSJ2, If dabura is scaled to SPC then gohan is twice as weak as when he was a child and it's consistent, and if he's scaled to PC then gohan is as strong in SSJ2 as PC which doesn't contradict anything if I recall correctly.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
You know dabura scaling to SPC and PC isn't different. Gohan was weaker and was in SSJ2, If dabura is scaled to SPC then gohan is twice as weak as when he was a child and it's consistent, and if he's scaled to PC then gohan is as strong in SSJ2 as PC which doesn't contradict anything if I recall correctly.
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We saw Gohan tell us when he took the hit to save Vegeta that his ki was less than half. This Gohan was able to beat SPC as a SS2. Meaning he was still far above PC even with less than half his power. So scaling Dabura to SPC is consistent like you said. Scaling to PC would mean Gohan would have lost much greater than half his power. It would be that half, plus whatever the difference between PC and SPC was. Which didn't seem to be tiny. Even if we say SPC is only 2x stronger than PC, then that would mean Gohan would have lost >75% of his power or more. I can't really see the loss being that big. Also considering Gohan was still growing at the time cause he was a teenager in the Buu Saga.
 
The issue is, Vegeta is confident either he or Goku could take Dabura. The key thing about Vegeta being able to is he didn't have SS2 until he was turned into Majin Vegeta. So unless you're also proposing Vegeta be Solar System level in Super Saiyan, then that should debunk scaling to SPC imo.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Vegeta actually achieved Super Saiyan 2 during the time-skip (confirmed by Chouzenshuu; suggested by his familiarity with the form in the battle with Goku), and he only underwent Babidi's Manipulation Sorcery to boost his power in order to match Goku.
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Do you have a scan/translation for that? Because if so then maybe an At Least Large Star+, Likely Solar System for being unclear which Cell it is referring to?
 
Mageman460 said:
The issue is, Vegeta is confident either he or Goku could take Dabura. The key thing about Vegeta being able to is he didn't have SS2 until he was turned into Majin Vegeta. So unless you're also proposing Vegeta be Solar System level in Super Saiyan, then that should debunk scaling to SPC imo.
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Vegeta had SSJ2 before being majin, he commented that even kakarot has surpassed super saiyan too, after seeing goku turn SSJ2 against yakon.
 
I completely agree with Dabura being scaled to Super Perfect Cell, granted not for the reasons listed in the OP. It makes no sense for Goku to be referring to Perfect Cell since Super Perfect is really just Perfect Cell post-zenkai, and there's no reason for him to refer to what's basically the same form, just when he was weaker. Plus, Daizenshuu, which confirms Goku's statement, refers to Super Perfect Cell as Perfect Cell many times. The argument for Cell ~ Gohan > Dabura doesn't make much sense either as EML blatantly states even when Cell came back from his zenkai, Gohan's superiority was undeniable, so Gohan just scales above Cell both. I have way more arguments and scans, but don't want to ramble too much.
 
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Yes, Dabura should definitely scale to SPC.

Also, as a very minor proposal, how about we change the names? Change 'Perfect Cell' to "Perfect Form Cell' and 'Super Perfect Cell' to just 'Perfect Cell' 🙂
 
I agree. There is no reason for goku to compare dabura to a weaker version of cell. In fact goku said that dabura is even more formidable than he thought. So he is likely >SPC
 
50% Gohan SS2 with help > SPC
100% SS2 Gohan stomps PC

However Goku melted half of PC’s body away, and Dabura has no such regen.

This means full power Gohan < SS2 Gohan 50% since he’s even weaker than that.

It’s a good possibility they mean PC, especially since they haven’t slacked off in their training like Gohan has.
 
However, Majin Vegeta makes the comment that Goku is stronger than Gohan when he fought Cell, so I’m leaning SPC as well.
 
He had half his power due to his arm being broken, then unleashed everything he had after the z fighters managed to distract Cell.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
I talked to AKM about that scene in a CRT and he told me that gohan didn't use 100% to kill cell or something which is just weird, like gohan was losing with half power how did he kill cell then?
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Gohan was left with less than half of his full power after his arm was broken. That was it; he had a handicap for the rest of the fight. He held his own against Cell's Kamehameha and was only in a stalemate because he was still holding back, fearing that he would damage the planet. However, once Goku reminded him that the Dragon Balls were a thing, he unleashed the rest of what power he had left and blew Cell away.

You cannot just return to 100% after being handicapped with an injury, unless Gohan healed himself in that scene.
 
Y'know, even if you cannot get Dabura to Super Perfect Cell's level, you could still get him to 4-B, assuming that Gohan was using Super Saiyan 2 against him. When Gohan went Super Saiyan 2 for Kibito, Yamu's Energy Meter went off the fritz and completely broke, the meter spiraling out of control due to his, as Kibito put it, "immeasurable energy". On the other hand, when Goku went Super Saiyan in order to kill Yakon, the Energy Meter was perfectly fine picking up his energy, which means that Super Saiyan 2 Gohan is vastly superior to Super Saiyan Goku, who is High 4-C+.

Of course, Gohan being in Super Saiyan 2 against Dabura is a bit fuzzy.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Gohan was left with less than half of his full power after his arm was broken. That was it; he had a handicap for the rest of the fight. He held his own against Cell's Kamehameha and was only in a stalemate because he was still holding back, fearing that he would damage the planet. However, once Goku reminded him that the Dragon Balls were a thing, he unleashed the rest of what power he had left and blew Cell away.

You cannot just return to 100% after being handicapped with an injury, unless Gohan healed himself in that scene.
Click to expand...
It's kinda weird cause there's an statement that Gohan tapped to a power that was deep inside him or something and was stronger than even when he was a healthy SS2.

I remember because someone used it to try downgrade SS2 Cell Games Teen Gohan to below SPC
 
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