Cyttorak Stat Revision

[Izreldan]

Currently, Cyttorak's tier is "at least 3-B", however, I have evidence that would place him at "at least Low 2-C"

1: Tom Brevoort, the Executive Editor of Marvel, states that Cyttorak is stronger than Zom, who is far stronger than Dormammu [1]

2: The Fear Lord D'Spayre with the Gem of Cyttorak, which is only a fraction of Cyttorak's power, was able to manipulate the fabric of a universe [2]

3: Trion Juggernaut, who also only possessed a fraction of Cyttorak's power, physically tore through the space-time of the Trion Universe [3]

If the links do not work, I can post scans as well

In conclusion, I believe Cyttorak should be bumped to Low 2-C

 

[Antvasima]

1) Zom has been downgraded to the level of the Hulk in recent years, so this is not a valid claim anymore.

2) D'Spayre did not demonstrate anywhere near universal scale in that comicbook.

3) Trion Juggernaut had absorbed massive amounts of magical power from other sources than Cyttorak, and tearing down borders between different magical realm is an unquantifiable hax.

That said, Tom Brevoort also compared Cyttorak with SHuman-Gorath, so that should be considerably more useful.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

( https://comicvine.gamespot.com/cyttorak/4005-24949/forums/cyttorak-respect-thread-1798224/)

Here's a respect thread. Don't know where this puts him ?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

1) Stopped reading the moment I heard "Tom Brevoort"

2) This seems universal, but "controlling the fabric of the universe" could simply be very potent Reality Warping

3) Tearing through space-time is not universe level.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

1) ...? What's so bad about him ?

2) They can be debated though, Matt.

3) I agree here.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Seed

1) He doesn't know anything about Marvel power levels.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

May I ask for an offhand example of this ? I have a lot of scans from Marvel & DC, surely I can tell if his judgement is awful or not...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11119/111195459/4335655-5656997664-39798.png

This is the most extreme example, because even normal humans can punch 100 times in a minute.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Oh... Moving on then . In the respect thread, I found something

1) What was the deal with Oblivion here ? ( https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/33916/4707682-incredible_hulk_1974_#172_11.jpg )

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Pretty sure that's not Oblivion, tho.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Considering that Eternity sent him to Oblivion... Its the only reasonable conclusion.

 

[Izreldan]

( https://comicvine.gamespot.com/cyttorak/4005-24949/forums/cyttorak-respect-thread-1798224/)

Here's a respect thread. Don't know where this puts him ?

Well, looking through that respect thread, that would definitely put him at Low 2-C, possibly even 1-A as his power supposedly rivals Oblivion.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

@Izreldan ... I usually only see you at FC/OC.. Nice to see you here though. Anyways... Interesting idea.

Here is where Eternity says it supposedly: https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/33916/5261346-1317538836-52082.jpg

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Seed

But did he send him to oblivion or Oblivion? Gotta be careful with comics, what with their all-caps font.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Cyttorak obviously doesn't rival Multiversal Oblivion. At best the M-Body who is equal to Universal Eternity.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I understand Ever. Not trying to say anything outlandish or crazy , but if f he said oblivion, he would've killed him then and there through . Considering he is still alive and in some "void", only one scenario remains..

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

You clearly need to clarify which type of M-Body, because he can literally be from Universal to Hilbert Space level in an Avatar. I agree unless something implies this is Multiversal Oblivion.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The only avatars Oblivion shows are the Oblivion M-Body, which are most of his cameo appearances, and the Chaos King.

True Oblivion literally only appeared twice in Marvel.

 

[Izreldan]

Cyttorak obviously doesn't rival Multiversal Oblivion. At best the M-Body who is equal to Universal Eternity.

Actually, it's likely that he does when you think about it, Eternity sent Juggernaut to Oblivion, meaning more likely than not, Juggernaut was in True Oblivion's territory outside of the Marvel Multiverse, if Juggernaut was dealing with an M-Body of Oblivion, then why did Eternity need to send Juggernaut to Oblivion instead of, say, Oblivion appearing inside the Multiverse, like he did as the Chaos King, and torture him there?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

... No.

 

[Antvasima]

Oblivion is usually used as a word, not as a character, especially as this happened before he was introduced in the Iceman series.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yes, Marvel uses the word Oblivion a lot to describe cosmic destruction / nothingness. It does indirectly scale to the real Oblivion since he is the embodiment of his namesake, but it's not a literal reference to the character.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. We should probably close this thread.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I agree with you two as well. It doesn't seem to be worth leaving open, because it's too vague to directly determine if this is Oblivion the entity or not.

However, Low 2-C seems fine, unless you guys don't agree with that as well ?

 

[Izreldan]

Agreed. We should probably close this thread.

Not yet, while 1-A may be an unlikely stretch, he should still be at least Low 2-C, he is supposedly the strongest magical being in all of Marvel, far above Doctor Strange and Dormammu

So my proposed revision is this: Tier: At least Low 2-C (stronger than both Doctor Strange and Dormammu)

 

[Antvasima]

Well, he is likely stronger than classic Doctor Strange at least, as he was one of the entities empowering the magician.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I agree about being stronger than Doctor Strange. But NOT SHuman ..

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that Low 2-C should be acceptable, by scaling from Doctor Strange.

 

[Izreldan]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

You might be able to place him at "At least Low 2-C", by scaling from Doctor Strange.

 

[Izreldan]

You might be able to place him at "At least Low 2-C", by scaling from Doctor Strange.

I would, but his profile is locked

 

[Antvasima]

I can unlock it for you.

 

[Izreldan]

I can unlock it for you.

Okay, thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

I have done so. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Izreldan]

I have done so. Tell me here when you are done.

Done

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Antvasima]

Should we close this thread?

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Anything else about Cyttorak that needs revisions ?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think so. It is probably best if i close this.