Cute little Gods that'll wipe out the universe with smiles on their faces: Kirby vs Zen'ō REMATCH (1/0/0)

[Eseseso]

So with Kirby's new 2-C tier, I think it's time to do a rematch between him and Zen'ō, which was previously ruled inconclusive.

Speed is equalized.

Starting place is Tournament of Power Arena.

Both are 2-C


Kirby: 1 (@TheMonkeMan)

Zen'ō: 0

Inconclusive (again): 0

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I assume Kirby has Existence Erasure too since he constantly inhales people and absorbs their power, which is sometimes irreversible. So I assume both are obviously resistant/immune to that power, right? Also, how does Zeno efficiently kill Kirby, then? Kirby got hit by Dark Meta Knight ( which was a serious attack that should scale to somewhere above Meta Knight's attacks for a reason I'll explain soon ) and was only split into 4 more Kirbies, , and it should be noted that this attack was seemingly very powerful since he one shot Meta Knight who scales to Kirby's durability and power, while Kirby later could tank shots from him and even block him completely in Stone form. Also, he can reflect attacks with the Mirror Copy Ability, seen in Kirby Super Star and Kirby Super Star Ultra ( ).

 

[sanicspood]

does kirby resist 4d EE

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I think, he probably also has EE him self, so..

 

[sanicspood]

i dont see the former on the profile so

what stops zeno from doing a squish

 

[DaMonkeMan]

i dont see the former on the profile so

what stops zeno from doing a squish

Wait.. yes he does. I just remembered, he can use the abilities he absorbs to make Allies in games like Kirby Super Star and KSS-Ultra, as well as erase those Allies just by squatting. ( this is the only video on youtube that directly showcases his ability to erase allies and make them, so let's just roll with it. )

 

[sanicspood]

why is that 4d resistance

 

[DaMonkeMan]

why is that 4d resistance

hmm.. good point.. for now we can only just assume that he has is due to having EE

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

zenos have 4-D erasure and kirby never show to resist that,even in that vid you send there

 

[DaMonkeMan]

zenos have 4-D erasure and kirby never show to resist that,even in that vid you send there

I had to legitimately look up what 4-D erasure is, and it seems to be erasing someone from all time and space, right? Hmm, well, I guess there's nothing sure fire about him resisting that, so I guess he really wouldn't be able to avoid it unless he's fast enough to get Zen'o away from him before he's completely erased, which I guess is plausible since he does have BFR on his profile.


Edit: how close does Zen'o have to be to affect Kirby with it? if it's a limited range then Kirby can just use his ranged abilities like Archer and the new gun ability from Forgotten Land.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

how close does Zen'o have to be to affect Kirby with it?

Zen-Oh has erased entire multiverses — twelve universes — instantaneously.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Zen-Oh has erased entire multiverses — twelve universes — instantaneously.

Okay so, with prior knowledge, maybe Kirby could somehow warp to another Universe before he does that. He did that in Smash Ultimate ( yes it's possibly not canon or a different Kirby from a different universe, but I imagine that it's still relatable to the original Kirby anyway. ) to escape beams of light before.

 

[Quantu]

Where does it say Kirby has prior knowledge

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Where does it say Kirby has prior knowledge

I'm saying that if he DID, then he could use his dimensional travel. This is just a "what-if" scenario that I'm thinking of.

 

[sanicspood]

So what’s stops zeno from squishing


Idfk know how zeno inconed kirby in that old thread, back when he wasn’t even 2-c

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Idfk know how zeno inconed kirby in that old thread, back when he wasn’t even 2-c

Uh, reading the thread, they said something about Kirby using a friend heart on him before he can use his EE. So it was a matter of which came first, which was hard to tell, thus it was ruled inconclusive. That's from my memory of reading it but I was admittedly a tad tired when I read it so maybe I read it wrong.

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

so another incon ?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

so another incon ?

Uh.. Dunno.. I think his Friend Heart ability would hit him first. After that, he can just inhale Zen'o and go back to eating cake

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

Uh.. Dunno.. I think his Friend Heart ability would hit him first. After that, he can just inhale Zen'o and go back to eating cake

according to the last battle of zenos and kirb,it show to be incon by this way,so if nothing change then this incon for sure

 

[Eficiente]

So, I'm not going to reply to the things TheMonkeMan said that weren't correct or were imprecise.

If Kirby attacks first, he one-shots, if Zeno does it, which can be more likely, Kirby could get erased or he could try to outrun the energy if he needs to leave the universe at it. It doesn't get any better after that as Zeno would sense Kirby wasn't reached. If Zeno then lets Kirby get close after that, Kirby might win, if Zeno makes his energy stay around or shoots it around himself in a massive way when Kirby comes then Kirby would not be able to get close. Kirby being more powerful also means Zeno would sense this from the start, so it depends on how he reacts in some parts.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

according to the last battle of zenos and kirb,it show to be incon by this way,so if nothing change then this incon for sure

True

 

[DaMonkeMan]

So, I'm not going to reply to the things TheMonkeMan said that weren't correct or were imprecise.

If Kirby attacks first, he one-shots, if Zeno does it, which can be more likely, Kirby could get erased or he could try to outrun the energy if he needs to leave the universe at it. It doesn't get any better after that as Zeno would sense Kirby wasn't reached. If Zeno then lets Kirby get close after that, Kirby might win, if Zeno makes his energy stay around or shoots it around himself in a massive way when Kirby comes then Kirby would not be able to get close. Kirby being more powerful also means Zeno would sense this from the start, so it depends on how he reacts in some parts.

So basically, another incon? Since it depends on how he reacts?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Kirby might win, if Zeno makes his energy stay around or shoots it around himself in a massive way when Kirby comes then Kirby would not be able to get close.

Doesn't it say on Kirby's profile that he can teleport? What's stopping him from teleporting directly to Zen'o and beating him with Hammer?

 

[Eficiente]

Some issues from that. If you look the feat, he does so at a very short distance, there is no evidence to say nor is it likely that he can do it in far, far greater distances than that in a way that would come in handy here. And he never uses that anyway, using a power in 1 battle in 1 game while having over 20 games makes the probability of him using it impossibly low. We saw him trying to get close to things and following up foes many times, never does he use the power, and so it's irrelevant here.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Some issues from that. If you look the feat, he does so at a very short distance, there is no evidence to say nor is it likely that he can do it in far, far greater distances than that in a way that would come in handy here. And he never uses that anyway, using a power in 1 battle in 1 game while having over 20 games makes the probability of him using it impossibly low. We saw him trying to get close to things and following up foes many times, never does he use the power, and so it's irrelevant here.

Fair point. Even still, he can also warp with the warp star.

 

[Eficiente]

The Warp Star can at best have itself be created/grow in one place out of nowhere when needed ("teleportation"), Kirby can't teleport from 1 place to another while using it, the thing doesn't have that power as you can see in its profile.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

The Warp Star can at best have itself be created/grow in one place out of nowhere when needed ("teleportation"), Kirby can't teleport from 1 place to another while using it, the thing doesn't have that power as you can see in its profile.

Hmm, interesting. Well, referring to what you said earlier about Zen'o making a shield of energy so Kirby can't get close, can't Kirby manipulate Energy too?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

f Zeno makes his energy stay around or shoots it around himself in a massive way when Kirby comes then Kirby would not be able to get close.

referring to this btw

 

[Eficiente]

Well, you can again answer your own claims by yourself. Kirby almost never manipulated an enemy's energy being shot at him, mostly just energy standing in place. Most of the time when foes shoot energy at Kirby he simply has to dodge it (or block it, or overpower it) or else. He can technically reflect attacks if he hits them but the attack would need to be pretty small here and even then there is no telling if that would work or if he would get erased.

He could try to go for a beam war by shooting energy against Zeno's energy, but while possible, it doesn't seem likely and there is no telling if his superior power could match the energy of destruction before it erases his beam.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

He can technically reflect attacks if he hits them

Doesn't need to hit them. https://kirby.fandom.com/wiki/Mirror ( specifically the part where it says his Guard in Mirror form deflects projectiles. )

 

[DaMonkeMan]

He could try to go for a beam war by shooting energy against Zeno's energy, but while possible, it doesn't seem likely and there is no telling if his superior power could match the energy of destruction before it erases his beam.

Dunno, it seems like Kirby has more raw power with that kind of stuff. Like, Zen'o has EE and what not, sure, but in terms of raw power and abilities, Kirby would take that cake.

 

[Eficiente]

Not gonna reply to the latter as I myself don't know how that would go but

Doesn't need to hit them. https://kirby.fandom.com/wiki/Mirror ( specifically the part where it says his Guard in Mirror form deflects projectiles. )

Look, the way battles go is supposed to be how battles would realistically go for the characters. It matters a lot what they do in-character and how likely they are to do certain things. Mirror is 1 Copy Ability out of many, many more he could have gone with to fight, and in turn Kirby would need to choose to use a Copy Ability rather than to fight in base form, with this being in a very short amount of time as the fight would only last so much. If you think everything a character can do as a percentage, you can't simply claim things like this and rest your case, yeah he could use Mirror and win, as in, it's not impossible, but that is so unlikely it doesn't matter to even bring out.

And Mirror can't deflect continuous blasts still coming from the user as they reach him.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

Doesn't zeno's erase bypasses layered resistance?

 

[Quantu]

I never understood (and still don't understand) how this "layered hax" nonsense works so I could be well off, but isn't Zeno's EE is at least 13 layers in, considering every G.o.D is not equal in power and can likely resist EE from a weaker G.o.D (Base Goku caught off guard could "tank" Sidra's energy of destruction)

 

[DaMonkeMan]

If you think everything a character can do as a percentage, you can't simply claim things like this and rest your case, yeah he could use Mirror and win, as in, it's not impossible, but that is so unlikely it doesn't matter to even bring out.

And Mirror can't deflect continuous blasts still coming from the user as they reach him.

I'm not saying he'd WIN with Mirror, just that he can deflect some attacks with Mirror, which is why I said he wouldn't necessarily need to hit and deflect the attacks him self. But no, I wouldn't dare suck off Kirby like that and seriously say he can beat Zen'o just with Mirror, lol.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I never understood (and still don't understand) how this "layered hax" nonsense works so I could be well off, but isn't Zeno's EE is at least 13 layers in

I'm not an expert on layered hax either but I'm guessing it's like this:
Standard EE: just erasing someone's current existence
4D EE ( what Zen'o has, supposedly. ): Erasing them from all points in time, so if someone did this to me, I wouldn't even have any traces of when I was a baby or anything, since this erases me from all points in my life completely.
5d and above: basically like erasing your entire concept and what not, and erasing you and your concept from other dimensions or something like that, not sure but it's probably like that.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Also would Kirby's "Magic" ability from The Amazing Mirror be any use here? In healing him self or damaging Zen'o?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

NVM, looked it up and the best Magic can do is EE/Transmutation ( turning all onscreen enemies into food or a 1up ), give Kirby a random copy ability, or summon Meta Knight to clear out the enemies on screen, but since this is a 1v1 that ability won't count.

 

[Grand_Saver_Ritsuka]

I never understood (and still don't understand) how this "layered hax" nonsense works so I could be well off, but isn't Zeno's EE is at least 13 layers in, considering every G.o.D is not equal in power and can likely resist EE from a weaker G.o.D (Base Goku caught off guard could "tank" Sidra's energy of destruction)

You pretty much got it. Zeno's erasure upscales from god and stronger character resist weaker one's erasure.

 

[Arceus0x]

I vote incon. The last time the argument was that the errasure takes a few moments and doesn't erase the whole body at the same time but rather like a fire burns down a paper.
This gives kirby the chance to suck em up or to empa hax him or to hit him since, due to equalized speed, Kirby would get there in an instant.

I believe Kirby gets erased but not before kicking the heck out of Zeno who never really moves that much after erasing someone.