Cthulhu Mythos Revisions (Part 1.5)

[KingPin0422]

That's going to be changed anyway with the new keys being added.

 

[JustAPokemonFan]

Wait, since when Carter became an aspect of the supreme archetype?

Didn´t he stopped at an ancient one?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Since the Night-Gaunts are going to lose their Tier 1 there's actually a feat that they can reasonably scale from.

 

[Antvasima]

Since the Night-Gaunts are going to lose their Tier 1 there's actually a feat that they can reasonably scale from.

Please elaborate.

Also, is somebody knowledgeable willing to apply what has been accepted here?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Basically, these guys:

Wolf-Like Mountains

For the mammoth bobbing shape that overtopped the ridge was only a head—a mitred double head—and below it in terrible vastness loped the frightful swollen body that bore it; the mountain-high monstrosity that walked in stealth and silence; the hyaena-like distortion of a giant anthropoid shape...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Quoting:

Then dim and misty in the darkling north before him he glimpsed a terrible thing. He had thought it for some moments a range of black mountains, but now he saw it was something more. The phosphorescence of the brooding clouds shewed it plainly, and even silhouetted parts of it as low vapours glowed behind. How distant it was he could not tell, but it must have been very far. It was thousands of feet high, stretching in a great concave arc from the grey impassable peaks to the unimagined westward spaces, and had once indeed been a ridge of mighty onyx hills. But now those hills were hills no more, for some hand greater than man’s had touched them. Silent they squatted there atop the world like wolves or ghouls, crowned with clouds and mists and guarding the secrets of the north forever. All in a great half circle they squatted, those dog-like mountains carven into monstrous watching statues, and their right hands were raised in menace against mankind.

The ghouls made camp amongst the fallen stones of Sarkomand, despatching a messenger for enough night-gaunts to serve them as steeds. Pickman and the other chiefs were effusive in their gratitude for the aid Carter had lent them; and Carter now began to feel that his plans were indeed maturing well, and that he would be able to command the help of these fearsome allies not only in quitting this part of dreamland, but in pursuing his ultimate quest for the gods atop unknown Kadath, and the marvellous sunset city they so strangely withheld from his slumbers. Accordingly he spoke of these things to the ghoulish leaders; telling what he knew of the cold waste wherein Kadath stands and of the monstrous shantaks and the mountains carven into double-headed images which guard it. He spoke of the fear of shantaks for night-gaunts, and of how the vast hippocephalic birds fly screaming from the black burrows high up on the gaunt grey peaks that divide Inganok from hateful Leng. He spoke, too, of the things he had learnt concerning night-gaunts from the frescoes in the windowless monastery of the high-priest not to be described; how even the Great Ones fear them, and how their ruler is not the crawling chaos Nyarlathotep at all, but hoary and immemorial Nodens, Lord of the Great Abyss.
All these things Carter glibbered to the assembled ghouls, and presently outlined that request which he had in mind, and which he did not think extravagant considering the services he had so lately rendered the rubbery, dog-like lopers. He wished very much, he said, for the services of enough night-gaunts to bear him safely through the air past the realm of shantaks and carven mountains, and up into the cold waste beyond the returning tracks of any other mortal. He desired to fly to the onyx castle atop unknown Kadath in the cold waste to plead with the Great Ones for the sunset city they denied him, and felt sure that the night-gaunts could take him thither without trouble; high above the perils of the plain, and over the hideous double heads of those carven sentinel mountains that squat eternally in the grey dusk. For the horned and faceless creatures there could be no danger from aught of earth, since the Great Ones themselves dread them. And even were unexpected things to come from the Other Gods, who are prone to oversee the affairs of earth’s milder gods, the night-gaunts need not fear; for the outer hells are indifferent matters to such silent and slippery flyers as own not Nyarlathotep for their master, but bow only to potent and archaic Nodens.

Of Kadath the flutterers of the peaks knew almost nothing, save that there must be some mighty marvel toward the north, over which the shantaks and the carven mountains stand guard. They hinted at rumoured abnormalities of proportion in those trackless leagues beyond, and recalled vague whispers of a realm where night broods eternally; but of definite data they had nothing to give. So Carter and his party thanked them kindly; and, crossing the topmost granite pinnacles to the skies of Inganok, dropped below the level of the phosphorescent night clouds and beheld in the distance those terrible squatting gargoyles that were mountains till some titan hand carved fright into their virgin rock.
There they squatted, in a hellish half-circle, their legs on the desert sand and their mitres piercing the luminous clouds; sinister, wolf-like, and double-headed, with faces of fury and right hands raised, dully and malignly watching the rim of man’s world and guarding with horror the reaches of a cold northern world that is not man’s. From their hideous laps rose evil shantaks of elephantine bulk, but these all fled with insane titters as the vanguard of night-gaunts was sighted in the misty sky. Northward above those gargoyle mountains the army flew, and over leagues of dim desert where never a landmark rose. Less and less luminous grew the clouds, till at length Carter could see only blackness around him; but never did the winged steeds falter, bred as they were in earth’s blackest crypts, and seeing not with any eyes, but with the whole dank surface of their slippery forms. On and on they flew, past winds of dubious scent and sounds of dubious import; ever in thickest darkness, and covering such prodigious spaces that Carter wondered whether or not they could still be within earth’s dreamland.

Then came a wide gap in the range, where the hideous reaches of transmontane Leng were joined to the cold waste on this side by a low pass through which the stars shone wanly. Carter watched this gap with intense care, knowing that he might see outlined against the sky beyond it the lower parts of the vast thing that flew undulantly above the pinnacles. The object had now floated ahead a trifle, and every eye of the party was fixed on the rift where it would presently appear in full-length silhouette. Gradually the huge thing above the peaks neared the gap, slightly slackening its speed as if conscious of having outdistanced the ghoulish army. For another minute suspense was keen, and then the brief instant of full silhouette and revelation came; bringing to the lips of the ghouls an awed and half-choked meep of cosmic fear, and to the soul of the traveller a chill that has never wholly left it. For the mammoth bobbing shape that overtopped the ridge was only a head—a mitred double head—and below it in terrible vastness loped the frightful swollen body that bore it; the mountain-high monstrosity that walked in stealth and silence; the hyaena-like distortion of a giant anthropoid shape that trotted blackly against the sky, its repulsive pair of cone-capped heads reaching half way to the zenith.
Carter did not lose consciousness or even scream aloud, for he was an old dreamer; but he looked behind him in horror and shuddered when he saw that there were other monstrous heads silhouetted above the level of the peaks, bobbing along stealthily after the first one. And straight in the rear were three of the mighty mountain shapes seen full against the southern stars, tiptoeing wolf-like and lumberingly, their tall mitres nodding thousands of feet in the air. The carven mountains, then, had not stayed squatting in that rigid semicircle north of Inganok with right hands uplifted. They had duties to perform, and were not remiss. But it was horrible that they never spoke, and never even made a sound in walking.

Basically, these creatures used to be regular mountains until the hands of the "Great Ones", the mild and feeble gods os Earth's Dreamlands, touched them and gave them life. Now they serve as guardian sentinels, standing in the cold desert and blocking the entrance to Kadath, the celestial mountain wherein the Great Ones dwell.

Since they are servitors of the gods who only exist to guard the entrance to their mountain-peak, the gods themselves should be more powerful than them. And in turn, the Night-Gaunts too, since we are repeatedly told in the story that they are more powerful than the little gods of earth.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems to make sense to me.

What do the rest of you think?

 

[KingPin0422]

What Matt said makes sense to me, but I have another edit to make to my initial proposals, namely, concerning the night-gaunts' speed feat.

Meanwhile the ghoul that was Pickman had glibbered an order to the night-gaunts, and the whole army soared higher into the air. Up toward the stars the grotesque column shot, till nothing stood out any longer against the sky; neither the grey granite ridge that was still nor the carven and mitred mountains that walked. All was blackness beneath as the fluttering legions surged northward amidst rushing winds and invisible laughter in the aether, and never a shantak or less mentionable entity rose from the haunted wastes to pursue them. The farther they went, the faster they flew, till soon their dizzying speed seemed to pass that of a rifle ball and approach that of a planet in its orbit.

Yeah, so, looking at it again, this seems to be not only an acceleration feat, but also a flight feat. It's not the kind that I think would scale to their reaction speed, either, given this line:

That they were in a realm of eternal night he felt certain, and he fancied that the constellations overhead had subtly emphasised their northward focus; gathering themselves up as it were to cast the flying army into the void of the boreal pole, as the folds of a bag are gathered up to cast out the last bits of substance therein.

Basically, the night-gaunts flew in a linear direction to the city of Kadath, which, per our new standards on flight speed, should not scale to how quickly they can react, especially given that nothing obstructed their path. So, like, what do we do here?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Basically, the night-gaunts flew in a linear direction to the city of Kadath, which, per our new standards on flight speed, should not scale to how quickly they can react, especially given that nothing obstructed their path. So, like, what do we do here?

There's also the really bullshit feat in the same novel where the Moon Cats can jump from the Dreamlands to the moon and back.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Would be nice to change the image on Randolph Carter's profile, the current picture is an actor from a student short film. This artwork looks much better to represent him.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with that. I will add it.

 

[Antvasima]

Or wait a little. Is that a drawing that is intended to represent the character in question? And has it been officially used in some manner?

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody knowledgeable willing to apply what has been accepted here?

Also...

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Or wait a little. Is that a drawing that is intended to represent the character in question? And has it been officially used in some manner?

It is meant to represent Randolph Carter. He's even holding the Silver Key in his hand. It was used to represent Carter in a board game

 

[Antvasima]

Ah. I will use it then.

 

[Antvasima]

I have done so.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem.

So what is currently left to do here, and is somebody willing and able to properly apply what has been accepted in this thread?

 

[JustAPokemonFan]

How did Carter reached the level of an archetype? wasn´t he supposed to become an ancient one?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Bumping this thread. Can the accepted changes be applied?

 

[Antvasima]

I think so, yes, but can you remind me what will be applied exactly please?

 

[Event_Horizon]

i'll give a bump as well i guess

 

[Antvasima]

Bumping this thread. Can the accepted changes be applied?

I think so, yes, but can you remind me what will be applied exactly please?

@Matthew_Schroeder

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Basically the Archetype Downgrades? The Randolph Carter stuff is also being discussed.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Please elaborate/be more specific.

 

[KingPin0422]

I think so, yes, but can you remind me what will be applied exactly please?

1. Merge the Ultimate Gods' 0 keys with their High 1-A keys.
2. Add Non-Physical Interaction to Nodens.
3. Downgrade the Night-Gaunts and Hunting Horrors to "At least 7-C" AP/durability* and "Up to High Hypersonic+" flight speed.
4. Change the Supreme Archetype's justification slightly.
5. Change the Ancient Ones' tier to "1-A physically, higher (1-A+) with hax."
6. Change Hypnos' tier to "1-A, eventually became High 1-A."
7. Add two more keys to Randolph Carter, one rated at 1-A, and the other rated at High 1-A.

* This part needs more discussion, but so far, I think it checks out.

I think the stuff with Randolph Carter's relation to the Supreme Archetype should be saved for later. I really wanna get this thread done with and move on to the lower-tiered profiles because even after more than a year, we still haven't addressed those. That said, while I can't apply the changes right now, I can still write some new justifications in preparation for doing so.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Speaking of Hypnos how about we change his art to this one:

Hypnos by magurooishii on DeviantArt

www.deviantart.com

Obvious credit the original artist.

 

[Jibz]

Speaking of Hypnos how about we change his art to this one

Doesnt particularly look better, nor does it bring out the key aspects of Hypnos

”I think he was then approaching forty years of age, for there were deep lines in the face, wan and hollow-cheeked, but oval and actually beautiful; and touches of grey in the thick, waving hair and small full beard which had once been of the deepest raven black. His brow was white as the marble of Pentelicus, and of a height and breadth almost godlike.”

He seems emasculated in the image for no reason. Furthermore

“And when he opened his immense, sunken, and wildly luminous black eyes”

The image in question makes Hypnos look like a model for Vogue with no eyebags in sight, when he’s anything but the sort. Personally the image we have currently characterises Hypnos better then any version i’ve seen to date.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Doesnt particularly look better, nor does it bring out the key aspects of Hypnos

?

"Young with the youth that is outside time, and with beauteous bearded face, curved, smiling lips, Olympian brow, and dense locks waving and poppy-crowned"

He only lacks the beard but other than that its spot on.

He seems emasculated in the image for no reason.

That's just called being greek

 

[Jibz]

"Young with the youth that is outside time, and with beauteous bearded face, curved, smiling lips, Olympian brow, and dense locks waving and poppy-crowned"

“I think he was then approaching forty years of age, for there were deep lines in the face, wan and hollow-cheeked”

”and touches of grey in the thick, waving hair and small full beard which had once been of the deepest raven black”

He only lacks the beard but other than that its spot on.

That's just called being greek

Literally described as bearded, appeared 40 and had deep lines on his face and his hair slowly greying, with his suken eyes being exentuated.

 

[Jibz]

All these aspects (which there shockingly more then i originally thought) are present in our original drawing. Ignoring all the negatives this drawing has in terms of accuracy to the one we have now, the only difference is…it arguably looks nicer. Which is subjective and not worth all the inaccuracies

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Quick question, does that mean CM will lose tier 0 or will they just be flatout 0 on their profiles?

 

[KingPin0422]

Quick question, does that mean CM will lose tier 0 or will they just be flatout 0 on their profiles?

The Supreme Archetype stays at tier 0, but the rest of the Ultimate Gods will lose it and have all of their abilities on that key moved over to the High 1-A key. This affects Nodens' Non-Physical Interaction as well.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

The Supreme Archetype stays at tier 0, but the rest of the Ultimate Gods will lose it and have all of their abilities on that key moved over to the High 1-A key. This affects Nodens' Non-Physical Interaction as well.

I did notice the “part 1.5" on the name of this thread.
What will happen to CM in these revisions if you can help?

 

[KingPin0422]

I did notice the “part 1.5" on the name of this thread.
What will happen to CM in these revisions if you can help?

Here's the short of it, most of the evidence can be found on the OP:

1. Merge the Ultimate Gods' 0 keys with their High 1-A keys.
2. Add Non-Physical Interaction to Nodens.
3. Downgrade the Night-Gaunts and Hunting Horrors to "At least 7-C" AP/durability* and "Up to High Hypersonic+" flight speed.
4. Change the Supreme Archetype's justification slightly.
5. Change the Ancient Ones' tier to "1-A physically, higher (1-A+) with hax."
6. Change Hypnos' tier to "1-A, eventually became High 1-A."
7. Add two more keys to Randolph Carter, one rated at 1-A, and the other rated at High 1-A.

* This part needs more discussion, but so far, I think it checks out.

I think the stuff with Randolph Carter's relation to the Supreme Archetype should be saved for later. I really wanna get this thread done with and move on to the lower-tiered profiles because even after more than a year, we still haven't addressed those. That said, while I can't apply the changes right now, I can still write some new justifications in preparation for doing so.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Here's the short of it, most of the evidence can be found on the OP:

No i meant as in future revisions. Sorry if i worded it incorrectly

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Unrelated but I may actually have found a usable tier for Cthulhu, Dagon, and other lower-tier enties like Great Old Ones

 

[Scottycj256]

There is a wealth of stories written by Lovecraft's contemporary friends while he was still alive that we barely looked into.

Titus Crow time

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Titus Crow time

A quick Wikipedia inspection tells me that the author of these books was born in 1937. This is obviously unacceptable. I am only speaking of Lovecraft's friends and contemporaries, the unofficial members of the so-called "Lovecraft Circle". People who also wrote for Weird Tales or were at least in correspondence with him.

Not a guy who only wrote decades after H.P. died.

 

[Event_Horizon]

I think I already mentioned this but I think the Ultimate Gods page should be renamed "The Other Gods" as they are referred to that more often.

 

[Antvasima]

1. Merge the Ultimate Gods' 0 keys with their High 1-A keys.
2. Add Non-Physical Interaction to Nodens.
3. Downgrade the Night-Gaunts and Hunting Horrors to "At least 7-C" AP/durability* and "Up to High Hypersonic+" flight speed.
4. Change the Supreme Archetype's justification slightly.
5. Change the Ancient Ones' tier to "1-A physically, higher (1-A+) with hax."
6. Change Hypnos' tier to "1-A, eventually became High 1-A."
7. Add two more keys to Randolph Carter, one rated at 1-A, and the other rated at High 1-A.

* This part needs more discussion, but so far, I think it checks out.

I think the stuff with Randolph Carter's relation to the Supreme Archetype should be saved for later. I really wanna get this thread done with and move on to the lower-tiered profiles because even after more than a year, we still haven't addressed those. That said, while I can't apply the changes right now, I can still write some new justifications in preparation for doing so.

What has been accepted seems fine to apply now then.