Cross-Dimensional Vs Low Multiversal Range

[Promestein]

Only Interdimensional. Works fine.

 

[Elizhaa]

Anyone have issues with this or can we just add it?

Seems fine, for me.

 

[Tyri456]

Only Interdimensional. Works fine.

"such as into external pocket realities or parts of other universes, but that cannot affect the entirety of these spaces, several universes at the same time,"


what about char that can affect (aoe) different space-time that are not universal size?

 

[Promestein]

It'll vary depending on the size of the space-time, and that will be listed separately from Interdimensional.

For example, "Planetary and Interdimensional"

 

[Tyri456]

So characters that can just affect parallel dimension under the same space time, they will get just the size of the dimensions as range without "interdimensional"?

 

[Promestein]

"For example, "Planetary and Interdimensional""

 

[GyroNutz]

I agree with this, and the notion that this should be kept separate from the standard range scale

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Prom

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. This can probably be applied then.

We probably need to clarify the Low Multiversal, Multiversal, and Multiversal+ ratings a bit as well, regarding that a character has to affect that many universes at the same time to qualify.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

so low multiversal would be when you affect a different time space continium?

 

[Antvasima]

When you affect several at the same time. If you only affect one, it is Interdimensional.

 

[Wokistan]

You also have to affect the whole thing.

 

[Antvasima]

No. I do not think that is what we agreed about.

 

[Wokistan]

That seems to be what the thing Prom accepted says though.

"Interdimensional: Attacks and abilities that can reach beyond the conventional space-time of a single universe, such as into external pocket realities or parts of other universes, but that cannot affect the entirety of these spaces, several universes at the same time, or necessarily travel a universal distance."

She also used Scion (Worm) as an example for this, so...

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

"Interdimensional: Attacks and abilities that can reach beyond the conventional space-time of a single universe, such as into external pocket realities or parts of other universes, but that cannot affect the entirety of these spaces, several universes at the same time, or necessarily travel a universal distance."

This is what was agreed upon I think. Logically, Low Multiversal range (being separate from Interdimensional) would have to require affecting the entirety of another space-time continuum (or at least large parts of it).

Edit: Got ninja'd

 

[Promestein]

It's more important to affect the whole of another universe, as in all of space and time, than interact with multiple universes on a small scale at once. The latter can be done by a good multitasker with interdimensional range.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Never mind then.

How should we reword the current Low Multiversal, Multiversal, and Multiversal+ Range descriptions?

 

[ChemistKyle89]

If just being able to travel between universes applys, Illyria would get Interdimensional from being able to travel to her pocket reality Vahla ha'nesh - which she herself hid in another timestream. Actually, an argument could be made for Illyria being far more powerful (in her original form) than she's rated (based off statements she made in various episodes).

Would probably apply to Willow Rosenberg as well (summoned her vampire self from an alternate timeline, banished Olaf to the land of trolls, ripped Buffy's soul out of Heaven, banished Osiris after he refused to resurrect Tara, etc.)

Also, what about the yellow and green rings from The Chronicles of Narnia (Magician's Nephew) which allow you to travel to the Wood between the Worlds, a wood that has at least dozens of pools, each representing other universes. This is how Jadis (The White Witch) originally got to Narnia from her homeworld of Charn (after a trip to London).

Would this apply to any Marvel/DC characters?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I guess it would go something like this:

Low Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that can affect the entirety of two to one thousand 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time. It should be noted that the entirety of these continuums need to be affected simultaneously to qualify.

Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that can affect the entirety of over one thousand 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time.

Multiversal+: Attacks and abilities that can affect the entirety of an infinite amount of 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time.

Other Staff Members please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong or to add anything into it.

 

[Antvasima]

I made a minor correction, but it seems fine otherwise. What do other staff members think?

 

[Promestein]

Sure.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Looks fine.

 

[Elizhaa]

The texts look fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks. Is some bureaucrat or administrator willing to apply what we agreed to the Range page?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have applied them based on Julian's wording above. And also added Interdimensional.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Is there anything left to do here then?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Doesn't seem like it.

 

[Wokistan]

Could leave it open for people to post locked profiles that need to be swapped to interdimensional.

 

[Eficiente]

I have some disagreement to share in a bit.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We could leave it open

@Eficiente, I did agree with some wordings being off and I also mentioned range Vs AoE. But seems I was outvoted. But you may address your concerns when available.

 

[Eficiente]

Luckly I don't mind disagreeing with many, I believe that the logicstics in the range page got screwed after this thread.

We gave an implication that suggests to retcon what range is. If you can throw something or manifest non-omnidirectional abilities tens of meters away then that's tens of meters in range when throwing stuff or with those abilities respectively. If you can manifest your powers happening hundreds of meters away without them traveling into that much range then that is hundreds of meters in range with those powers. But then we get into Low Multiversal range & above and suddenly everything has to be affecting everything up the minimum requirements of the range in question. This is stupid for a number of reasons.

• It obviously loses consistency with what the page was being used so far. (I'm not saying that it does retcon range, only that goes on its own for no reason).
• The only things that would fit "affecting the entirety" of a set range would mostly be the destruction of things on those ranges and then very specific things that just so happen to target everything in those ranges. All the other non-linear attacks, powers & things would all get to be Interdimensional, that range would get not just the most amount of applications added to it, but also the most interesting ones to read as they are done in creative ways that cannot be just explosion/implosion/omnidirectional things. This is not organized.
• The text itself in Interdimensional is bullsh*t and super contrived to fit this fake idea that Range must be Area of Effect. It looks like if you can't "necessarily travel a universal distance" then too bad you get Interdimensional and not anything above it...except that you won't either way as traveling a universal distance is not Low Multiveral range at all. "Cannot affect the entirety of these" "pocket realities or parts of other universes"? Even if you could affect all of them you would still have Interdimensional range as to have Low Multiversal you would need to do more than it. The whole point in the OP was pretty clear, dimensions/pocket universes =/= other universes, same with affecting them. This devolved into whatever.
• Affecting two 4-dimensional space-time continuums is Low Multiversal in range except if you can miss tiny places of those two 4-dimensional space-time continuums, the range would then just be Interdimensional instead (because as we know, missing a tiny part of thing and affecting the entirety of it don't go well), similar cases with higher ranges with the range below it happen, do we legit don't have the vision to know how many mistakes newer/younger users this will create and how much wank that could let to? We would very much deserve that, range is range, it's a word that has a meaning, we grabbed it and gave it our own meaning for Interdimensional range and above because.............. ?

 

[Agnaa]

we grabbed it and gave it out own meaning for Interdimensional range and above because.............. ?

Because giving a character that can teleport a dog from an alternate timeline's Earth to their own timeline's Earth Multiversal range seems weird, especially when they can't affect all of those universes at once.

It's increasingly weird because that character wouldn't be able to teleport a dog from another galaxy to their planet, so the range scale no longer linearly increases, it jumps around with some lower ranges kinda having more reach than higher ranges.

 

[Eficiente]

But then if they can affect all of those universes at once minus some parts of them it would also be seem weird to just name that Transdimensional range, that is what it is, something we made up. It only feels right to call that feat Low Multivesal range because...that's what range is. More things would end up weird as we have it now as we are operating under the notion that "Range=(All) Area of Effect".

Any other problem can be fixed by just writing the limitations of the characters' ranges. This character can affect any point in time in 2 universes (and more) and all the space in them at once, but not the space between those universe, and I just wrote that in his range. The character's range is Low Multiversal, not Transdimensional. And this is obviously just one example.

 

[ChemistKyle89]

Range also means Reach. Characters can reach out to other universes or pocket dimensions, though they might only be able to affect small portions of them. A lot of portal creation could be argued as bypassing the normal space and the space between universes to reach their destination.

You could define their range regarding that specific ability as being outside their normal range somehow.

 

[Agnaa]

But a lot of characters have this exact caveat, so if those caveats are put in range anyway, why not include a specific defined term for it on the Range page?

Also to clarify, they'd still have their effective range listed as well, for example, "Planetary and Interdimensional".

 

[ChemistKyle89]

Portal creation / teleporting to other universes / pocket universes should be Interdimensional, even if they can't affect all of either of those universes. They aren't attacking anything and they don't need to open a universal sized portal.

All the Bleach characters that can use a Descorrer would have Interdimensional Range (via Portal Creation) as a result of being able to teleport from Hueco Munto to the Mortal World and vice/versa. If it's a specific ability like that, I think they should have that part listed beside the Interdimensional part of their range.

Grimmjow, for example, has this: Standard melee range when using hand-to-hand combat, several hundreds of meters with projectiles such as Cero, Gran Rey Cero, etc.

I think it should also include: Interdimensional (via Portal Creation).

 

[ChemistKyle89]

The reason behind the caveat of refering to it as Interdimensional (via Portal Creation) comes down to the definition of Range as defined by this wiki:

Range refers to how far the attacks of a certain character can efficiently reach on their own.

For more information about different units of length, please see this page. However, a general guide for categorizing range has been listed below.

It specifically mentions attacks, and abilities like portal creation are very rarely used as attacks.

 

[Antvasima]

If Eficiente simply wants to change the requirements to that, for example, Low Multiversal means affecting 2 to 1000 universes at the same time in some manner, rather than the entireties of them (which can mainly be accomplished via creation or destruction), I think that he has a very good point.

 

[Agnaa]

I see good arguments for either way of going about this (Low Multiversal/Multiversal/Multiversal+ are for affecting those timelines at the same time, or they're for affecting the entirety of those timelines at the same time), and I don't strongly prefer either option.