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Speed equalized. I want to see the debate from this match.
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Cronus (Saint Seiya) vs Magnus the Red
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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Magnus being 2-B seems like Big Low-balling to me as the warp can be up to 12D...But whatever.
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@NJS
Magnus is technically "Unknown. At least 2-B". The reason for the 2-B is Magnus entering the Warp in A Thousand Sons, realizing that he could be whatever he desired in this realm, and that the power of the realm's "titanic forces" (which he became) was enough to create and destroy universes with merely a stray thought.
But yes, you could call it a lowball.
Magnus is technically "Unknown. At least 2-B". The reason for the 2-B is Magnus entering the Warp in A Thousand Sons, realizing that he could be whatever he desired in this realm, and that the power of the realm's "titanic forces" (which he became) was enough to create and destroy universes with merely a stray thought.
But yes, you could call it a lowball.
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Cronus could also be At least 2-B. His feat is done through a thought, and as a casual action while multitasking fighting Aiolia. He is not trying his hardest nor putting his whole mind into it. It is a passive, secundary action done with no effort.
So you could also call it a lowball.
So you could also call it a lowball.
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Except his is done in minutes at best, even casually. Magnus' casual is thousands of times faster. Magnus' casual would happen on accident. Cronus wouldn't.Matthew Schroeder said:
If he's at least 2-B, then make a revision thread, for now he's a solid 2-B, to Magnus low-balled "At Least 2-B", despite existing within 12D space (His Master's Domain) and able to navigate it and understand it.
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Being inside a 9 or 12D realm does not make you 12D
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This is very true, though it might be important for me to point out that the 9-D example of a realm is a 9-D "object" as opposed to an abstract thing to these daemons. It's more like "Tzeentch's nine-dimensional palace" than "Tzeentch's nine-dimensional universe".Matthew Schroeder said:
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There is also the more likely chance that the writers at GW simply don't think of Higher-Dimensional Places having the same implication as a lot of people here do.
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I don't see why they wouldn't think higher dimensional planes > lower dimensional planes, in this case. It's not like the quote that was something along the lines of "this random daemon's head exploded into hundreds of dimensions", which is nonsense. It's "this realm that is consistently shown to transcend all universal laws and treat the laws of physics as playthings has a structure that encompasses nine-dimensions and is completely incomprehensible and impossible to lowly mortal minds". It's clearly a case-by-case thing, though.Matthew Schroeder said:
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I am not trying to debunk the writers treating Higher-Dimensional Planes as a bigger deal. This isn't like series such as Getbackers were Tier 7s fight Higher-Dimensional Beings and it's normal. Warhammer40K definitely is a Tier 1 franchise.
However, it is a case-by-case analysis, and feats should always take precedence. For instance, Slaanesh's palace is understood and navigated by mortals, and the experiences there are tangible and understandable enough to them.
However, it is a case-by-case analysis, and feats should always take precedence. For instance, Slaanesh's palace is understood and navigated by mortals, and the experiences there are tangible and understandable enough to them.
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Also, claiming that Magnus can "destroy all of the Warp" with a thought is laughable, as that would imply that he could destroy his own Masters. Going by what is explained in his profile, and the feats I saw on Azzy's Blog, him and Cronus are comparable in AP.
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I completely agree. However, there is a reason Tzeentch's realm is entirely incomprehensible to mortals and even many daemons while Slaanesh's is not, despite both being on a relatively even playing field. Each god's domain is shaped solely by their will, and thus they do not have to operate at their highest potential all of the time. Slaanesh is the god of excess and pleasure, and feeds when mortals indulge in it. Thus Slaanesh benefits from mortals being able to enter his/her realm and fall prey to these things, even if such realm is just a shadow of what Slaanesh truly is.Matthew Schroeder said:
Tzeentch on the other hand already has strings attatched to all living beings throughout time and space, and does not have need for wanderers in the Warp to fall prey to some kind of trap. Instead, his realm reflects his unknowable and ephemeral nature, hence why it is composed of constantly shifting higher-dimensional structures and another object infinite in size that constantly folds in on itself. IIRC, any mortal wanderers through the Warp have only ever been to the outskirts of Tzeentch's territory, as it is impossible for them to enter the Impossible Fortress unless Tzeentch himself wills it, and even then, their lower-dimensional version of time is completely shattered (i.e. they may take one step lasting ten million years, but reach another room in several seconds of walking composed of said steps).
Regardless, the above is sort of off topic, but mostly clarification.
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Y is Slaanesh the weakest Chaos God? Is it because he's half-girl?
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Yes. It's muh patriarchy.
Ignore the fact that Ynnead, who is the strongest Eldar god, has a half-female avatar. Not relevant at all.
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Magnus for reasons above.
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I don't see how Magnus is touching any of Cronus' Hax. He can manipulate the course of fate itself, has control over the universe in all it's components, manipulates Chaos and entropy themselves, can nullify Mid-Godly Regen, can strike you with one hit and rewind the time of your existence back to the Big Bang so there'll be no traces of you left.
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None of this would have any fatal effects on Warp Magnus.Matthew Schroeder said:
That said, I'm seeing stalemate, so far. I'd need to look deeper into either having ways to permanently put the other down.
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I love these sort a threads, you don't know who's gonna win and it's exciting, and both of them are almost equal in power.
It really depends on who can outlast who. Because I have been trying to study both in further detail, they are very close in hax and hax resistencies and defenses so they might not be able to totatlly destroy each other for long.
It really depends on who can outlast who. Because I have been trying to study both in further detail, they are very close in hax and hax resistencies and defenses so they might not be able to totatlly destroy each other for long.
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