Couples Tournament (7-B) Round 1, match 3 (The Sword and Shield Couple vs The Desperado Couple)

[Expectro2000xxx]

• The Sword and Shield Couple: Raph and Naofumi
• Desperado Couple: Ikki Kurogane and Stella Vermillion (SSSAF Arc Ikki, Dragon Stella restricted. And all of Ikki's amps are restricted as well)
• They start at 100 meters away.
• Speed equalizated obviously.

The arena:

 

[Phoenks]

r these guys even 7-B? It seems like it's only with abilities?

regardless pretty sure Stella burns them to a crisp instantly. The core of the sun is 27 million degrees.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

@YungManzi should know

 

[YungManzi]

r these guys even 7-B? It seems like it's only with abilities?

regardless pretty sure Stella burns them to a crisp instantly. The core of the sun is 27 million degrees.

7-B forms are amps and can be stacked here.

So, if SSDB is allowed here (Not sure because technically it can only be used in specific places), they can go up to 37.8 Megatons. It also nulls magic, skills (As-in the ability), Skill itself, stat amps, accelerated development, and weapons.

SSDB is pretty crazy as far as nulls go, and canonically resisting 1 null doesn't let you resist all of the other things it nulls. It even bypasses baseline resistance, which is why I said they might be a bit much.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

pretty sure it's only 15million degrees for the sun's core.

either way Naofumi defensive hax would work such as reflection if that is the case for the fire

since this is 7-B fight that means they start with liberation aura already right?

 

[YungManzi]

since this is 7-B fight that means they start with liberation aura already right?

Not sure how this works tbh. Starting with SSDB already up is too much tho.

 

[Phoenks]

pretty sure it's only 15million degrees for the sun's core.

either way Naofumi defensive hax would work such as reflection if that is the case for the fire

since this is 7-B fight that means they start with liberation aura already right?

It is 15 million Celsius. I was reading in Fahrenheit because I'm American.

Reflecting heat doesn't do too much. Stella resists and Ikki can do some weird shit to avoid it.

7-B forms are amps and can be stacked here.

So, if SSDB is allowed here (Not sure because technically it can only be used in specific places), they can go up to 37.8 Megatons. It also nulls magic, skills (As-in the ability), Skill itself, stat amps, accelerated development, and weapons.

SSDB is pretty crazy as far as nulls go, and canonically resisting 1 null doesn't let you resist all of the other things it nulls. It even bypasses baseline resistance, which is why I said they might be a bit much.

So they just instantly nullify everything? Even skill itself? Before the match even starts?

...bruh

 

[YungManzi]

So they just instantly nullify everything? Even skill itself? Before the match even starts?

...bruh

Yeah. SSDB is meant to basically turn heroes into normal people, so it nullifies any ability a normal person couldn't do. Which even includes things like mastery level (a unique weapon proficiency stat which grants you higher proficiency the higher stat you have with the weapon).

Edit:

So technically it wouldn't null all abilities just all non-generic ones.

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah. SSDB is meant to basically turn heroes into normal people, so it nullifies any ability a normal person couldn't do. Which even includes things like mastery level (a unique weapon proficiency stat which grants you higher proficiency the higher stat you have with the weapon).

Edit:

So technically it wouldn't null all abilities just all non-generic ones.

....so even AP? It would reduce it to 10-B?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Hmm, at the beginning I though in make them begin with amp already applied if needed but probably would be better if they need to activate it.

And to a what extent they would null things? Like, they would null biological powers? And against people without game system or systems similar to their how would things work? Like, the other part suddenly wouldn't know how to use a sword despite not having a skill related to that?

 

[YungManzi]

....so even AP? It would reduce it to 10-B?

Nah, cause Shield hero normal humans can reach 7-B.

 

[Phoenks]

Nah, cause Shield hero normal humans can reach 7-B.

ok what r "non-generic" abilities then? confusion

 

[YungManzi]

Hmm, at the beginning I though in make them begin with amp already applied if needed but probably would be better if they need to activate it.

And to a what extent they would null things? Like, they would null biological powers? And against people without game system or systems similar to their how would things work?

I don't think it would work on purely biological powers and physiology unless it's magic related. There's not a lot of those though.

Like, the other part suddenly wouldn't know how to use a sword despite not having a skill related to that?

I would think so. Skill negation is separate from mastery level negation which refers to weapon proficiency. Heroes in themselves possess a sort of supernatural martial skill with their weapons granted by their mastery level.

ok what r "non-generic" abilities then? confusion

Abilities that a normal human could never learn or gain access to through normal means of training, no matter how long they spent working on it. Or in the case of weapons, no matter how long they spent trying to construct/craft the weapon.

Like Liberation Aura and SSDB in themselves are abilities normal humans could never do without some special circumstances, which is why even they can be nulled (Yes, it's possible to null a SSDB with another SSDB and have them cancel one another out)

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

I don't think it would work on purely biological powers and physiology unless it's magic related. There's not a lot of those though.

I would think so. Skill negation is separate from mastery level negation which refers to weapon proficiency. Heroes in themselves possess a sort of supernatural martial skill with their weapons granted by their mastery level.

Abilities that a normal human could never learn or gain access to through normal means of training, no matter how long they spent working on it. Or in the case of weapons, no matter how long they spent trying to construct/craft the weapon.

Like Liberation Aura and SSDB in themselves are abilities normal humans could never do without some special circumstances, which is why even they can be nulled (Yes, it's possible to null a SSDB with another SSDB and have them cancel one another out)

So physiologies aren't nulled, ok.

Normal humans have mastery level? If they have then they suddenly become unable to use their weapons? Because with the heroes I still can understand it since their weapons are special and they had them from the beginning, but it sound weird that a normal person that learned swordmanship would suddenly become unable to use one since as you yourself say it only null things normal humans could never learn or gain access.

 

[YungManzi]

So physiologies aren't nulled, ok.

Normal humans have mastery level? If they have then they suddenly become unable to use their weapons? Because with the heroes I still can understand it since their weapons are special and they had them from the beginning, but it sound weird that a normal person that learned swordmanship would suddenly become unable to use one since as you yourself say it only null things normal humans could never learn or gain access.

Normal humans don't have mastery level, I'm saying having mastery level = Supernatural level of skill.

So with verse equalization on, it should null supernatural level of skill.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Normal humans don't have mastery level, I'm saying having mastery level = Supernatural level of skill.

So with verse equalization on, it should null supernatural level of skill.

So the mastery level is only a thing heroes have and no other character?

 

[YungManzi]

So the mastery level is only a thing heroes have and no other character?

Well.. yes, as far as we know (Although it's entire possible everyone else also has it but just aren't aware of it or can't boost it or manipulate it like heroes can. Like SP and EP stats)

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

So if is something completely unique to the heroes why would be assumed to work against verses without something like a mastery level?

 

[YungManzi]

So if is something completely unique to the heroes why would be assumed to work against verses without something like a mastery level?

Because of verse equalization.

Technically, it's only worked against hero abilities and other SSDBs. So does that mean it shouldn't null magic that isn't hero magic? (Which means it wouldn't work outside of the verse) Of course not. That's not how we treat Pnull here. Otherwise pretty much all Pnull would be useless.

Point is, it should null abilities that are similar enough to their in-canon counterpart; and as I said, Mastery level = Supernatural weapon skill, just with a stat behind it that you can nullify.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Because of verse equalization.

Technically, it's only worked against hero abilities and other SSDBs. So does that mean it shouldn't null magic that isn't hero magic? (Which means it wouldn't work outside of the verse) Of course not. That's not how we treat Pnull here. Otherwise pretty much all Pnull would be useless.

Point is, it should null abilities that are similar enough to their in-canon counterpart; and as I said, Mastery level = Supernatural weapon skill, just with a stat behind it that you can nullify.

The problem is that the other characters as far I know are able to use magic, not only the heroes. The mastery level is literally something just the heroes have and no other character despite exist others skilled characters in the verse.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[YungManzi]

Even supposing skill null doesn't work here, I don't know how much that helps in this fight. So we can argue as if it wouldn't work, though I believe it would.

 

[Phoenks]

What do both of them start with?

What is Raph's defense against 15 million degree fire?

 

[YungManzi]

What do both of them start with?

What is Raph's defense against 15 million degree fire?

SSDB still nulls that.

 

[Phoenks]

SSDB still nulls that.

Ok, what do they both start with?

 

[YungManzi]

Raphtalia would start with skills and HMS, Naofumi would probably use Fenrir force here while stating further back and providing more support, refection, and defense.

 

[Phoenks]

Does Raphtalia go for close-combat? And what specific skills would she use?

 

[YungManzi]

Most of her skills are mid to long range.

 

[Phoenks]

Can you be more specific? What powers does she use first? Are they things that have to be projected? How much of a buff can Naofumi give her?

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

How quick they can do the SSDB? And that degree of heat of Stella is passive or she use it very quickly? Because I don't remember her killing (or at least trying) anything she face, could be wrong since I only saw the first anime season years ago.

 

[YungManzi]

How quick they can do the SSDB? And that degree of heat of Stella is passive or she use it very quickly? Because I don't remember her killing (or at least trying) anything she face, could be wrong since I only saw the first anime season years ago.

Raphtalia doesn't even need an incantation iirc. She just spawns it instantly.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Bump.

 

[PainKiller07]

Do desperados stuffs include, ikki awoke during this arc iirc

 

[Nicetoderp]

Maybe? He doesn't use that in character if I remembered correctly.

However, I'm not entirely convinced if SSOD should work on Ikki's skill as a swordman.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

From what Phoenks said in this key he still don't have the Desperado stuff, is also in next key that he get listed the Desperado Awakening.

 

[Phoenks]

Maybe? He doesn't use that in character if I remembered correctly.

However, I'm not entirely convinced if SSOD should work on Ikki's skill as a swordman.

it wouldn't work on his skill. That's why I need to know what they'd start with. Because if Raphtalia goes anywhere near Ikki it doesn't matter if he has no magic, he's still going to beat the shit out of her.