Could the Dragonborn be stronger than we think?

[Udlmaster]

Replaying Skyrim again I went and did ALL the quests, through it I found you could align with a few 2-A beings such as Molag Bal,Meridia and Nocturnal to name a few, with both their blessing and being their champions or tool in some way or form, could that contribute to their power, be the Dovahkiin be male or female?

 

[Shazam121]

Nope. If anything, the Dragonborn's current rating is probably too high. In TES the LDB's true power is being a hero of prophecy; heroes are special in TES, they have very strong plot armor. But plot armor doesn't translate over to cross fictional battles.

 

[Akreious]

Don't want to accuse anything but I feel like Shazam121 might be a little biased. None the matter, see the problem is that even if he does get an upgrade from aligning himself, we don't know how to quantify those upgrades despite how much I want my 520k Dmg fisting Dovahkiin to be used on this wiki.

 

[Udlmaster]

Lit Akreious, lit af XD

 

[Lightbuster30]

Remind me again how being half as strong as a daedric prince makes you island level?

 

[Shazam121]

Remind me again how being half as strong as a daedric prince makes you island level?

For starters the LDB doesn't even have island level feats. His current rating is scaled from a possibly fictional recounting of a battle between Miraak, a Dragon Priest with some of his followers and possibly a few dragons during which the combined might of the afore mentioned parties separated an Island from mainland Skyrim... over the course of several days.

You are referencing a statement made by Clavicus Vile in which he says that the LDB is half has powerful as him. Personally, I ignore this statement as complete nonsense, if we take it at face value it would mean that the LDB would be rated at 2-A, which is ridiculous. Here's a list of issues with this statement:

1) - Vile is a known liar, it's part of his job description.

2) - Vile is significantly weakened during this exchange from events that took place some time ago and even still this is just an avatar of Vile.

3) - Vile goes on to claim that he could kill everyone in Skyrim with a snap of his fingers, which is naturally a lie. This puts further doubt on this entire exchange.

4) - It's unclear what "power" means to Daedra, for example Azura considers "beauty" and "horror" to be forms of power.

5) - And the claim contradicts with the common portrayal of the LDB; when you were playing Skyrim did you ever get any inkling that the LDB was a universal force? Of course not.

Also for the record: the 2-A ratings of the god tiers in TES are themselves suspect as the series is highly inconsistent and illogical when it comes to power.

 

[Lightbuster30]

1) Ok. This disproves what exactly? I don't care if he is a trickster god, that doesn't automatically make what he says a lie.

2) Yes. Weakened by exactly half by word of mouth.

3) Really? A 2-A guy claiming he can kill a few million people instantly is a lie? Interesting. Very much interesting.

4) I thinks it's extremely clear what type of power Vile meant. He knew exactly what the Dovahkin meant by power.

5) Sorry bud,I don't give a damn about gameplay mechanics.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Shazam121 seems to make sense.

 

[Shazam121]

1) Ok. This disproves what exactly? I don't care if he is a trickster god, that doesn't automatically make what he says a lie.
2) Yes. Weakened by exactly half by word of mouth.

3) Really? A 2-A guy claiming he can kill a few million people instantly is a lie? Interesting. Very much interesting.

4) I thinks it's extremely clear what type of power Vile meant. He knew exactly what the Dovahkin meant by power.

5) Sorry bud,I don't give a damn about gameplay mechanics.

1) - It means everything he says is suspect.

2) - I mean if you are going to dismiss this because it "word of mouth" then you should also dismiss Clavicus Vile's other claims, because that's all that they are too. Not to mention that we know why Vile is weakened: the loss of Barbas (who according to new information from ESO) is literally a part of Vile and because of the whole Umbra fiasco when a great deal of Vile's power was stolen. (Apologies, I think I misunderstood what you were saying here, so my comment is a little misguided)

3) - Perhaps in his own realm Vile could do that... perhaps. But there's no way Vile can do that on Nirn, because if he could the Oblivion crisis wouldn't make sense, the Argonian invasion of Dagon's realm wouldn't make sense, Molag Bal's planemeld wouldn't make sense. So, I ask: on what feats are you claiming that Vile could kill all of Skyrim? Also, do you understand WHY the gods currently have a 2-A rating? Hint: it's not because they have shown the ability to destroy a multiverse.

4) - To be fair it probably is power in the generic sense. But as I've pointed out with examples power is a tricky object with the Daedra. Not to mention that even if we consider this statement it is not explicit enough evidence to warrant an upgrade and it would come across strongly as an outlier. Hell, I would use this to downgrade the gods before using it upgrade the LDB.

5) - I didn't say anything about "gameplay mechanics". I'm asking you where Bethesda ever implied that the LDB was universal+ in scope? Do you actually think that the LDB should have a 2-A rating? A dude to whom bows and arrows wielded by normal mortals are a threat?


And you ignored half of my comment.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Not exactly. That still doesn't mean we disregard everything he says. He is a trickster in the sense that he makes deals that twist things in his favor, not casual discussions.

Exactly my point. Barbas is a part of him. To the point where he was trapped in a cave without Barbas. It's fair to assume that yes, at bare minimum he was at 50/50 power.

I think in terms of power is what he meant. He has the power to kill everyone in Skyrim, but not the means. In other words, even though he has enough power to do so, he can't due to his realm being seperate from Mundus.

I think they are 2-A because each realm of oblivion contains an infinite number of universes. I have a basic idea of it I think.

Well since we have no other context to work with, we have no reason to assume otherwise.

You heavily imply it in terms of gameplay. I mean cmon arrows? Same can be said for literally every main character in TES, if not gaming in it's entirety.

I responded to every point expect for your 6th one, which I made up for in this comment.

 

[Shazam121]

We don't have to disregard everything he says, we just have to be sceptical of him. Which means his claims aren't strong enough evidence to warrant any sort of upgrade... for anyone.

Yeah, I edited my earlier comment as I misread what you wrote at first.

I'd like to believe that Vile could kill the population of Skyrim within his own realm as I'm a fan of TES and logically he should be capable of doing so. Buuuut there are cases that imply that the Princes are not able to do this: Dagon's realm was invaded by the Argonians and he was unable to destroy them for example and Molag Bal was disappointing during the planemeld (unable to kill normal mortals at times).

That's not the reason we have them at 2-A. We don't really know much about Oblivion, but it seems Daedric realms are infinite in size (they aren't each an infinite multiverse). This alone would only rate at High 3-A or Low 2-C, though some Princes are said to have thousands of realms (this is unconfirmed) which would bump them up to 2-B. The reason we have them at 2-A currently is because we sort of assume that Akatosh is the embodiment of time throughout Oblivion (which contains infinite realms), so we scale all the other gods to him. But this 2-A rating is no sure thing, there are contradictions to this theory.

The other context we have is that the LDB has literally no feat of bring anything more than city level at best. Never mind multiversal.

"You heavily imply it in terms of gameplay. I mean cmon arrows? Same can be said for literally every main character in TES, if not gaming in its entirety"

Well... yeah... I know. No TES main character is multiversal, they can all be killed by bandits armed with bows. That's not gameplay mechanics, freezing the game and eating a hundred cheese wheels would be gameplay mechanics. And I can't speak for other games, this is the only series that I'm interested in with respect to "vsbattles".

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Well... yeah... I know. No TES main character is multiversal, they can all be killed by bandits armed with bows. That's not gameplay mechanics, freezing the game and eating a hundred cheese wheels would be gameplay mechanics. And I can't speak for other games, this is the only series that I'm interested in with respect to "vsbattles".

Final Fantasy characters are anywhere from Continent to Galaxy level and they can be killed by goons with normal guns. Being killed by bandits with bows is 100% game mechanics

 

[Js250476]

Or we have multiversel arrows OVO

 

[Shazam121]

Final Fantasy characters are anywhere from Continent to Galaxy level and they can be killed by goons with normal guns. Being killed by bandits with bows is 100% game mechanics
Well perhaps it ought to be asked why they are rated so highly if they can be killed so easily. Though I'm sure there is a huge difference between the manner in which the two game series work. I disagree that the ability to be killed is gameplay mechanics; it's gameplay sure, but not mechanics.

How anyone who has played Skyrim can argue that the LDB is Multiversal+ in scale is beyond me.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

In any game that has fodder enemies that can harm and kill you, being killed by fodder is nothing but game mechanics, this applies to games like Skyrim as well

 

[Primaris_Brian]

It's gameplay mechanics, we have rule regarding that and there are alot of game verses in this wiki who will have **** up power scaling if we allow such gameplay mechanics.

 

[Steve_Rogers1]

Sure, There are a few calcs that clock the Dovahkiin anywhere from 6-B to 6-A, however you won't see him going anything beyond that.