Could piercing blood be faster than its current status?

[GunshyFever]

Currently, on Choso's profile, Blood Manipulation is listed as supersonic due to its initial velocity exceeding the speed of sound. However, things may differ given the context. The scan I linked previously states, "Blood Manipulation Convergence, a technique where blood is compressed and condensed to its limit. The condensed blood of Convergence is shot through a single point. The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is said to exceed the speed of sound."

Given this context, we know that if you reinforce and compress your blood with enough cursed energy, it is able to exceed the speed of sound. Considering feats, we've seen Choso shock and even surprise Uraume, who is currently fighting on par with Hakari, who was able to dodge lightning. Now, I am aware that the Hakari feat has been heavily debated by different supporters, and it is not what I am trying to discuss. I am speaking hypothetically here and using the supposed "feat," whether it is right or not, as an example.

In that case, Choso was able to reinforce and compress his blood with enough cursed energy to "hypothetically" reach Massively Hypersonic+ speeds. Does this mean piercing blood would be higher than a bit over supersonic speeds?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Well Supersonic for Piercing Blood also comes from a calc of it, using the Mach angle since it creates a sonic boom. It's about Mach 1.6

 

[GunshyFever]

Well Supersonic for Piercing Blood also comes from a calc of it, using the Mach angle since it creates a sonic boom. It's about Mach 1.6

Using the hypothetical scenario I gave, would Piercing Blood be safe at MHS+? Or, for that matter, at any value depending on its user?

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't believe so. If anything, it's probably an anti-feat for MHS+

 

[GunshyFever]

How come?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Honestly, sometimes I think we could assume that Piercing Blood moves as fast as a waterjet cutter as both have similar characteriscs

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Currently, on Choso's profile, Blood Manipulation is listed as supersonic due to its initial velocity exceeding the speed of sound. However, things may differ given the context. The scan I linked previously states, "Blood Manipulation Convergence, a technique where blood is compressed and condensed to its limit. The condensed blood of Convergence is shot through a single point. The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is said to exceed the speed of sound."

Given this context, we know that if you reinforce and compress your blood with enough cursed energy, it is able to exceed the speed of sound. Considering feats, we've seen Choso shock and even surprise Uraume, who is currently fighting on par with Hakari, who was able to dodge lightning. Now, I am aware that the Hakari feat has been heavily debated by different supporters, and it is not what I am trying to discuss. I am speaking hypothetically here and using the supposed "feat," whether it is right or not, as an example.

In that case, Choso was able to reinforce and compress his blood with enough cursed energy to "hypothetically" reach Massively Hypersonic+ speeds. Does this mean piercing blood would be higher than a bit over supersonic speeds?

You're talking about how the initial successful usage of it at its lowest is supersonic yeah?
But depending on the CE control level of the person, it gets better yes?
Then yeah that's true.
If you compress it hard and good enough and reinforce it very carefully to give it a very high output then obv it gets faster.
Sorcerers generally improve through training and slightest bits of events and the like, or through battles, which is the best way to grow and fastest.

 

[Duedate8898]

Currently, on Choso's profile, Blood Manipulation is listed as supersonic due to its initial velocity exceeding the speed of sound. However, things may differ given the context. The scan I linked previously states, "Blood Manipulation Convergence, a technique where blood is compressed and condensed to its limit. The condensed blood of Convergence is shot through a single point. The blood, now reinforced with cursed energy, is said to exceed the speed of sound."

Given this context, we know that if you reinforce and compress your blood with enough cursed energy, it is able to exceed the speed of sound. Considering feats, we've seen Choso shock and even surprise Uraume, who is currently fighting on par with Hakari, who was able to dodge lightning. Now, I am aware that the Hakari feat has been heavily debated by different supporters, and it is not what I am trying to discuss. I am speaking hypothetically here and using the supposed "feat," whether it is right or not, as an example.

In that case, Choso was able to reinforce and compress his blood with enough cursed energy to "hypothetically" reach Massively Hypersonic+ speeds. Does this mean piercing blood would be higher than a bit over supersonic speeds?

Accepting the statement as it can exceed the speed of sound establishes a speed floor, not a ceiling so piercing blood can be any speed above the speed of sound be it Mach 1.1 or Mach 500. Figuring out explicit speed for Piercing Blood is hard though. At the moment, we rely on Mach cones for each individual scene and without more probably couldn't push for higher speeds for Piercing Blood besides what the cones yield.

 

[Arkenis]

I disagree. I think there is a need to see these feats differently. We can't exclude the discussion of Hakari's feat and take it for what it isn't in the story to give support to Uraume's upscale.

Hakari's feat is reaction, and not consistent or narratively backed in any way. To go off it and then argue for this speed to Uraume is simply reaching off a weak point in the scaling already. And then these characters are not fighting on par. Uraume is substantially inferior in terms of speed in their fight physically, where they only land a hit via Attack Speed, which Hakari didn't need to avoid given his RCT.

And even besides Hakari and Uraume, this gets shut down the first time we see PB, Yuji narrowly dodged it, stating its speed wasn't fast after the initial launch, a Yuji who is inferior to Naobito, Naoya, Yuta, Jogo, etc. MHS+ simply doesn't follow the story's depiction of speed

 

[Rosa]

And even besides Hakari and Uraume, this gets shut down the first time we see PB, Yuji narrowly dodged it, stating its speed wasn't fast after the initial launch, a Yuji who is inferior to Naobito, Naoya, Yuta, Jogo, etc. MHS+ simply doesn't follow the story's depiction of speed

kinda crazy how Naoya is the only anti-feat here and is the only one with no scaling over Yuji outside of being faster than an injured Yuji who literally suppressed himself since he wanted to die

 

[GunshyFever]

And even besides Hakari and Uraume, this gets shut down the first time we see PB, Yuji narrowly dodged it, stating its speed wasn't fast after the initial launch, a Yuji who is inferior to Naobito, Naoya, Yuta, Jogo, etc. MHS+ simply doesn't follow the story's depiction of speed

Okay, despite the question I'm about to ask not being part of the original post, I am genuinely curious. The only thing really holding JJK back in terms of speed are statements from the Culling Games, such as Naoya's top speed being transonic or a cursed womb Naoya needing to build speed to reach Supersonic+. Yet, when do feats ever take precedence over statements in general?

We have seen Yuji react to Piercing Blood, and like Uraume, he calls it fast and even has only a 50/50 chance of dodging it, even from a distance. Based on what I was told above, the speed floor for Piercing Blood's initial release is supersonic; potentially, it could be even higher, perhaps MHS+ if we take Hakari's feat into consideration. We also have other feats like Maki dodging a bullet at point-blank range, which is clearly High Hypersonic+ based on accepted calcs I've seen.

My question is, once again, when do feats take priority over statements and make those statements unreliable?

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

I disagree. I think there is a need to see these feats differently. We can't exclude the discussion of Hakari's feat and take it for what it isn't in the story to give support to Uraume's upscale.

Why would you disagree with PB's speed being dependent on the level of reinforcement. This is the premise of the thread.

Hakari's feat is reaction, and not consistent or narratively backed in any way.

"Narratively" people just using that word nowadays without any meaning to back that up as to wtf they're talking about.
Why is it not consistent for Hakari who is a top tier. We see him barely evade the lightning going for his head whilst caught off guard and moving towards Kashimo, shifts enough so that his arm gets hit and not his head.
Blatant enough of a feat for a top tier.

Uraume is substantially inferior in terms of speed in their fight physically, where they only land a hit via Attack Speed, which Hakari didn't need to avoid given his RCT.

Some of these you used were instances where she gets caught off guard by his regen and gets exploited for that whilst she's holding back.

And even besides Hakari and Uraume, this gets shut down the first time we see PB, Yuji narrowly dodged it, stating its speed wasn't fast after the initial launch, a Yuji who is inferior to Naobito, Naoya, Yuta, Jogo, etc. MHS+ simply doesn't follow the story's depiction of speed

"Everytime we see PB" like never? It gets hyped up for bottom tier fodder and most mid tiers at best. Kenjaku literally treats it like trash in speed, one that is performed by a far stronger Choso.
Yuji says it isn't fast after the initial launch refers to when swinging. This is something Kenjaku tells us. Not that it gets slower after being fired in a straight line whilst traveling for several meters.

Yuji isn't slower than Naoya unless you think weakened and heavily suppressed/nerfed Yuji being out speeded and blitzed by Naoya is W point.

Yuji pre Shibuya blatantly produces sonic booms when running away from Eso. Naoya isn't all that

 

[M3X_2.0]

Arkenis is correct.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

"Faster than the speed of sound" acts as a floor, but I doubt you can get a higher outright rating for it right now. Top tier characters consistently treat it like it ain't shit

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Yall do know that the premise of the thread is whether or not PB can get faster than it already is right?
Something like "the PB by Choso in Shinjuku is >>>>> the PB in Shibuya" cuz of way better CE reinforcement.
Do we all agree with the notion that PB gets better depending on your level of CE reinforcement, yes or no?

 

[Arkenis]

My question is, once again, when do feats take priority over statements and make those statements unreliable?

Maybe, almost, likely, probably, never. Feats are there for us to go "hey look this is how character A scales to this or that" statements are there to tell us what "this or that" is. Generally a statement isn't gonna be unreliable, and in JJK when the speed statements are said by reliable characters or the narrator, there's really no reason to keep trying to work around it.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Do we all agree with the notion that PB gets better depending on your level of CE reinforcement, yes or no?

Me thinks so, but it's difficult to scale it higher as it is shown by characters in the series because high tier characters consistently wave-dash it lmao

 

[JnSteHar002]

Okay, despite the question I'm about to ask not being part of the original post, I am genuinely curious. The only thing really holding JJK back in terms of speed are statements from the Culling Games, such as Naoya's top speed being transonic or a cursed womb Naoya needing to build speed to reach Supersonic+. Yet, when do feats ever take precedence over statements in general?

We have seen Yuji react to Piercing Blood, and like Uraume, he calls it fast and even has only a 50/50 chance of dodging it, even from a distance. Based on what I was told above, the speed floor for Piercing Blood's initial release is supersonic; potentially, it could be even higher, perhaps MHS+ if we take Hakari's feat into consideration. We also have other feats like Maki dodging a bullet at point-blank range, which is clearly High Hypersonic+ based on accepted calcs I've seen.

My question is, once again, when do feats take priority over statements and make those statements unreliable?

Personally, I have a preference for "feats over statements" but I wouldn't make that an absolute policy for myself or the site as context is key. (Imagine characters bumping up all the way to 2-C b/c the author said they'd beat any version of Goku even though their feats never get past tier 9).

W/the context we have here, I don't really get why Naobito and Naoya would be speed ceilings for the verse. I find the narrator's statement on Naobito's status as the fastest as a bit vague if you think about it and leaves room for exceptions (I know it's Gojo but still).

All of Naobito's feats we've seen are performed when he's inebriated and at retirement age, if I'm being frank. I imagine he'd have much higher speed when he was younger and sober. The note of his strategic framing and timing can imply that Naobito's status comes less from raw speed but how he was able to utilize it and his technique w/such efficient capabilities. Not to mention, he can temporarily freeze an opponent under the right conditions. For the "known as" part, do we have anything to confirm that's some kind of official evaluation and it takes every sorcerer into account, including the special grades? Or the students/others that Gojo is confident in being able to redefine what Special Grades are capable of and/or have the potential to equal, if not, surpass him?

I don't have much to say about Naoya other than he's such an egotistical, narcissistic ###### to think that he can be on par w/TOJI and GOJO! (I think I get a tiny aneurism every time I remember him genuinely believing that) And he got dodged by Maki when she just awakened her new HR capabilities and then there's a month and-a-half timeskip of training for the cast to take into account.

Hope this makes sense! Peace and Blessings

 

[M3X_2.0]

PB can get indefinitely faster than what it current is but it has no feats whatsoever and the current arc is so underwhelming that I doubt we will ever see PB again.

 

[That_moron2]

Using the hypothetical scenario I gave, would Piercing Blood be safe at MHS+? Or, for that matter, at any value depending on its user?

I mean hypothetically it could reach that speed I guess

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

And even besides Hakari and Uraume, this gets shut down the first time we see PB, Yuji narrowly dodged it, stating its speed wasn't fast after the initial launch, a Yuji who is inferior to Naobito, Naoya, Yuta, Jogo, etc. MHS+ simply doesn't follow the story's depiction of speed

I don't care about Piercing Blood reaching Mach speeds, but what you are saying is wrong. Yuji didn't say Piercing Blood got slower. He was talking about how once he dodges the Piercing Blood, Choso's use of it like a laser loses effectiveness because that attack is dependent on his hand movement speed. Piercing Blood doesn't have any decrease in speed on its own.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Personally, I have a preference for "feats over statements" but I wouldn't make that an absolute policy for myself or the site as context is key. (Imagine characters bumping up all the way to 2-C b/c the author said they'd beat any version of Goku even though their feats never get past tier 9).

W/the context we have here, I don't really get why Naobito and Naoya would be speed ceilings for the verse. I find the narrator's statement on Naobito's status as the fastest as a bit vague if you think about it and leaves room for exceptions (I know it's Gojo but still).

All of Naobito's feats we've seen are performed when he's inebriated and at retirement age, if I'm being frank. I imagine he'd have much higher speed when he was younger and sober. The note of his strategic framing and timing can imply that Naobito's status comes less from raw speed but how he was able to utilize it and his technique w/such efficient capabilities. Not to mention, he can temporarily freeze an opponent under the right conditions. For the "known as" part, do we have anything to confirm that's some kind of official evaluation and it takes every sorcerer into account, including the special grades? Or the students/others that Gojo is confident in being able to redefine what Special Grades are capable of and/or have the potential to equal, if not, surpass him?

I don't have much to say about Naoya other than he's such an egotistical, narcissistic ###### to think that he can be on par w/TOJI and GOJO! (I think I get a tiny aneurism every time I remember him genuinely believing that) And he got dodged by Maki when she just awakened her new HR capabilities and then there's a month and-a-half timeskip of training for the cast to take into account.

Hope this makes sense! Peace and Blessings

Naobito was only known as the fastest sorcerer, but that doesn't mean other unknown characters in society who hide their talent or are not as popular as Naobito (who was the clan heads of the three big Jujutsu clans) can't be faster than him.

 

[Arkenis]

Yuji didn't say Piercing Blood got slower.

I didn't say that?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I didn't say that?

I thought you are implying it got faster with this.

And even besides Hakari and Uraume, this gets shut down the first time we see PB, Yuji narrowly dodged it, stating its speed wasn't fast after the initial launch, a Yuji who is inferior to Naobito, Naoya, Yuta, Jogo, etc. MHS+ simply doesn't follow the story's depiction of speed

 

[Arkenis]

I thought you are implying it got faster with this.

No I'm referring to what Yuji said is all. The movement being slower is still a counter, Choso can't move the pb relative to the PB initial launch?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No I'm referring to what Yuji said is all. The movement being slower is still a counter, Choso can't move the pb relative to the PB initial launch?

Yeah because Choso's hand moment are not stated to be on same level as PB level at that point in the series so obviously he shouldn't be able to move his hand on same level as PB launching speed. Choso changing the direction and thus speed getting slower shouldn't matter. @GunshyFever was talking about initial release of the PB speed.

 

[Arkenis]

Yeah because Choso's hand moment are not stated to be on same level as PB level at that point in the series so obviously he shouldn't be able to move his hand on same level as PB launching speed. Choso changing the direction and thus speed getting slower shouldn't matter. @GunshyFever was talking about initial release of the PB speed.

Are they ever shown to be relative?

 

[Duedate8898]

At this point, the question has been answered. @GunshyFever You fine with me closing this?

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Personally, I have a preference for "feats over statements" but I wouldn't make that an absolute policy for myself or the site as context is key. (Imagine characters bumping up all the way to 2-C b/c the author said they'd beat any version of Goku even though their feats never get past tier 9).

W/the context we have here, I don't really get why Naobito and Naoya would be speed ceilings for the verse. I find the narrator's statement on Naobito's status as the fastest as a bit vague if you think about it and leaves room for exceptions (I know it's Gojo but still).

All of Naobito's feats we've seen are performed when he's inebriated and at retirement age, if I'm being frank. I imagine he'd have much higher speed when he was younger and sober. The note of his strategic framing and timing can imply that Naobito's status comes less from raw speed but how he was able to utilize it and his technique w/such efficient capabilities. Not to mention, he can temporarily freeze an opponent under the right conditions. For the "known as" part, do we have anything to confirm that's some kind of official evaluation and it takes every sorcerer into account, including the special grades? Or the students/others that Gojo is confident in being able to redefine what Special Grades are capable of and/or have the potential to equal, if not, surpass him?

I don't have much to say about Naoya other than he's such an egotistical, narcissistic ###### to think that he can be on par w/TOJI and GOJO! (I think I get a tiny aneurism every time I remember him genuinely believing that) And he got dodged by Maki when she just awakened her new HR capabilities and then there's a month and-a-half timeskip of training for the cast to take into account.

Hope this makes sense! Peace and Blessings

Spoiler: Snip

It's reasonable to assume he's had this reputation for a while. So I'll try to justify him not being a some sort of cap.

Naobito has had the reputation of being the fastest sorcerer besides Gojo. It is said that Toji could have taken over the Zenin clan at any point, which is consistent with him being able to take down peak Curse Naoya based on Maki doing it. It should also put Teen Gojo and Toji tier above Naobito.

Even if we did take Naobito's reputation at surface level, it shouldn't encompass Night Parade Yuta, who reached high level stats to combat Geto—whose stats Kenjaku's own are at least equal to—only during the Night Parade, before regaining his lost Special Grade rank through unknown means and then going off to Africa for training. JJK 0 era Hakari was a rival to Yuta at the time as acknowledged by himself and Gojo, then was gone for nearly a year yet still a rival later.

Naoya, who shouldn't be far off from Naobito and was going to be the next clan leader, is absolutely scared shitless of and didn't want to cross Yuta, who is comparable to Yuki, who can keep up with Kenjaku, who effortlessly side-steps Piercing Blood from CG Choso.

From my humble perspective, it should not come as a surprise that the Jujutsu Tech big three and those comparable to them seem really friggin' fast even considering Piercing Blood and Naobito.

 

[GunshyFever]

At this point, the question has been answered. @GunshyFever You fine with me closing this?

No problem