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MHS Jujutsu Kaisen should have never existed. (Staff Only)

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LIFE_OF_KING said:
Actually, it was stated that Naoya had reached the speed of sound later on. Other translations says "If it's as the last time, he will come at us at the speed of sound"

Not that it changes anything
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Yeah, referencing its cursed womb state
Screen_Shot_2022-08-23_at_11.18.39_AM.png

The one that blitzed Kamo and Maki
 
Maitreya said:
Look….

JJK has a somewhat consistent speed increase so long as you remember the author is absolutely awful at any type of speed scaling pas sub-hypersonic ranges.

Piercing blood is considered fast at Mach 1

Cursed Naoya, who was previously having trouble against Choso as a human, gets an increase to Mach 3 which is seen as incredibly fast by top tiers in the verse.

Gojo’s 200% hollow purple went at a little over Mach 10 when he fired it based on the real life distances Gege both used and mentions. This makes sense because Gojo is seen as the pinnacle of the verse and his attack is sizably above Naoya’s Mach 3 type speed which he needed to become a cursed spirit to even be able to perform.

This is all a relatively consistent chain of becoming faster the stronger the characters are.

The cases in which we get massively hypersonic stuff are pretty big outliers that are based on very minute feats, along with the general inconsistency the author has shown in regards to how fast the attack he’s putting in moves and what that means for the character in question who dodged said moves.

Like for example, one of the more egregious examples which happened very recently mind you was Sukuna getting tagged by SONIC WAVES yet somehow, at the same time being perfectly capable of dodging ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES at point blank range, while extremely injured no less too.

Outside of the sheer and mind boggling inconstancy there is from the fact that Sukuna was somehow tagged at something that moved at the speed of sound but dodged something that moved at the speed of light the very next page after, the very fact that Sukuna is able to perform what is by en large, the best speed feat in the entire series by orders of magnitude, while being critically injured no less, suggests to me that the author didn’t understand the nature of the move he’s detailing, leading to incredibly high yielding results that are not intended to be interpreted with how the general narrative has portrayed the characters’ speeds in question.

That’s my two cents on the matter, take it how you will.
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Agreed.
 
Following. I agree that the series itself gives us a overwhelming evidence of the characters being subsonic to super sonic. Hakari dodging lighting is the only evidence for MHS and I would be fine with using that if the story itself didn't make such a huge deal out of Mach 3. If Mach 3 can blitz Maki, a 220 swift would kill everyone human who is not named Gojo.
 
KingTempest said:
What makes Nue's lightning lightning speed then if it ain't ctg other than paralysis? If nothing, then... it can't even be used
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The voltage is one of the biggest factor in electricity speeds, once the electrical attack surpasses a certain threshold, lightning speeds can be assumed for it. 100 million volts or 1.6 billion joules of energy iirc is that threshold which Nue definitely surpasses.

So it may still be used.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
The voltage is one of the biggest factor in electricity speeds, once the electrical attack surpasses a certain threshold, lightning speeds can be assumed for it. 100 million volts or 1.6 billion joules of energy iirc is that threshold which Nue definitely surpasses.

So it may still be used.
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This is one of the few criteria. It doesn't qualify enough outside of the yield and the paralysis. It needs 1 more justification
 
I will probably add more later but just some thoughts.

I'm okay with putting the MHS calc on ice to see if it's corroborated in the future.

I do have a problem with trying to lump everyone one with subsonic though. 1st arc Yuji without CE refinement is already well over half the speed of sound with physical burst movement. There are many blitz chains above this level that don't make sense with this. Even if we assume human Naobito (seen creating a mach cone here) is mach 1.1, that means someone like pre enlightenment post awakening Maki, is struggling with something that isn't even double his speed. This is even more absurd given BOS Maki has several subsonic+ to supersonic feats herself.

I said it in the last thread, but PS's main calling card is the ability to pre plan the movements and execute them over distances to boot. It's like a super poor man's King Crimson. Gege has established wayyyyy to many inconsistencies for us to use it as a block for higher tiered characters. Especially when Maki literally sauced on Naoya after awakening her senses.

The last aspect I feel also correlates with the above gripes is that sorcerers worth their salt have Accelerated development. Yuta went from a bum to keeping pace with Geto who is an advanced CqC user, Yuji has many times exceeded his potential in the same arc, etc. Subsonic+ for high tiers just doesn't make sense internally or externally.

But all of that is more for side discussion I suppose. I'll listen to more arguments as the thread goes on, but I don't have too many issues putting a pause on the MHS stuff for now.
 
KingTempest said:
This is one of the few criteria. It doesn't qualify enough outside of the yield and the paralysis. It needs 1 more justification
Click to expand...
The criteria for lightning is a "few" of the characteristics while also not displaying characteristics that would disqualify it for lightning. The clause discussing the speed aspect of lightning is separate and gives precedence to the voltage argument

Additionally, for calculations that involve lightning speed, one has to consider that the speed of real electricity can change due to a variety of factors, but for practical purposes, concerning attacks that are electricity-based, if they display power comparable to that of natural lightning, they should be considered to move at a comparable speed. It is required to show that the electricity carries an energy of at least 1.6 billion Joules or a voltage of at least 100 million Volts in order to qualify.
Click to expand...
The attack technically doesn't even have to qualify as natural lightning to gain the benefit of comparable speed being applicable.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
The criteria for lightning is a "few" of the characteristics while also not displaying characteristics that would disqualify it for lightning. The clause discussing the speed aspect of lightning is separate and gives precedence to the voltage argument


The attack technically doesn't even have to qualify as natural lightning to gain the benefit of comparable speed being applicable.
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Welp, nvm then
(Time to make them scale to 1.5 billion joules)
 
KingTempest said:
Welp, nvm then
(Time to make them scale to 1.5 billion joules)
Click to expand...
That's a threshold you bum



Whats left to talk about? looks like we all agree with the claim made by the OP but not really much of its points, since we have given better points, this thread is basically over unless you guys wanna argue for multiple pages concerning each and every point on the OP.

Right now lets discuss who scales to what calc and move on.
 
Arnoldstone18 said:
Lets correct the pages, erase any trace MHS and I guess this can be closed. right? @M3X_2.0
Click to expand...
No, because I won't let everyone simply scale to Subsonic. I'll redo some calculations and see who scales to what. So we're entering a calculation discussion here and I'd like folks to not post anything that isn't related to calculations, this includes you also.
 
I thought we had hypersonic calcs? All of em invalid?




Forgot about the grace period.
 
M3X_2.0 said:
No, because I won't let everyone simply scale to Subsonic. I'll redo some calculations and see who scales to what. So we're entering a calculation discussion here and I'd like folks to not post anything that isn't related to calculations, this includes you also.
Click to expand...

I have made two calcs for Naobito and Naoya's speed both being very on point with the subsonic to + scaling. I'd say anyone scaling to Maki should scale to them.
 
There's a few issues with the Mach 500 Hakari calc:
I have my own version of the calc with those issues fixed and the same head scaling method to find the distance Hakari moves, it used the speed of electricity but I can substitute it with the speed of lightning:
  • Reaction speed: (0.294*440000)/0.05501630434 = 2351302.97376 m/s, Mach 6855.11071 (Massively Hypersonic+) [Beyond the MHS+ cap set by Black Flash's 1 microsecond timeframe]
  • Perception time: 0.721/440000 = 1.63863e-6 seconds, 1.63863 microseconds (Massively Hypersonic+)
Hakari ends up being x5.34 faster than lightning he was barely able to react to, this is the same issue that falls under the evading punches rules.
Click to expand...
Bump (this alone should be enough to get MHS Hakari's calc discarded)
I also have a slew of speed calcs now:
 
Last edited:
SunDaGamer said:
Bump (this alone should be enough to get MHS Hakari's calc discarded)
I also have a slew of speed calcs now:
Click to expand...
Bumping this

Turns out to be about calculations rather than just context and such.

@CloverDragon03 @KLOL506 @Armorchompy does the calc from the quoted comment above looks good?
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Not sure if the Gojo calc works as proof of a contradiction considering he'd be scaling above Mach 3 anyway I think
Click to expand...
It's still another value that puts him way below MHS, the MHS calc isn't even valid because it uses the distance Kashimo's hand was from Hakari instead of the distance the lightning bolt itself was away from Hakari before Hakari dodged it. Doing the latter results in Mach 6000+ results which would make Hakari over x5 lightning which goes back to the principle that the evading punches rule was based on:
Refrain from calculating feats based on dodging attacks from other characters at extreme proximity, as this is primarily a trope used to exaggerate a narrow miss rather than a literal representation of overwhelming speed. Taking it at face value is often inconsistent with the battle in which the feat occurs
Click to expand...
(It also exceeds Black Flash's MHS+ cap)
 
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